Derek 2.0 Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 I sympathize with this government trying to avoid the rampant militaristic hypocrisy of the stance taken by our "allies" while still avoiding calling them out for the hypocrites they are. It doesn't help that the mainstream media and much of the population are either clueless when it comes to modern history or warmongers who see every international problem as just another bombing opportunity. So, yes, it would be less hypocritical and braver of them to simply pull out and go home. But how many of us really have the courage to match our convictions? The "hypocrisy" is with this Government still seeking to stay apart of this mission, and continuing on presently, with a yet to be explained (lesser) supporting role. Though I disagree, the NDP made their alternative "convictions" quite clear, versus the CPC's stance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 Times are inherently no different than they ever were. That's nonsense. Each generation is inherently different from the last. Just ask GenX what they think of baby boomers. And technological advancements attest to those differences. So everyone has a choice. You can be part of the problem or part of the solution. In the context of your post, that cliche does not apply. What about all those people who are not even aware there is a problem? How then can they be part of the solution? That expression is more appropriately applied in a micro environment, such as within a company or some other establishment, not when discussing the state of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 The "hypocrisy" is with this Government still seeking to stay apart of this mission, and continuing on presently, with a yet to be explained (lesser) supporting role. Though I disagree, the NDP made their alternative "convictions" quite clear, versus the CPC's stance. An even bigger hypocrisy is this government's affirmation and continued support of the $15B arms deal with the Saudis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 An even bigger hypocrisy is this government's affirmation and continued support of the $15B arms deal with the Saudis. Exactly.......and from what is suggested in the press, once the Hornets do come home, RCAF's transports will continue to ship NATO's Eastern European members munitions and arms to the region, and our Auroras will continue to provide targeting information to allied strike packages, and our sole tanker will continue to refuel allied strike fighters........Who knows what our Special Forces will be doing, but if the media is to be believed over this confused mess, their size and scope will be expanded on the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 Exactly.......and from what is suggested in the press, once the Hornets do come home, RCAF's transports will continue to ship NATO's Eastern European members munitions and arms to the region, and our Auroras will continue to provide targeting information to allied strike packages, and our sole tanker will continue to refuel allied strike fighters........Who knows what our Special Forces will be doing, but if the media is to be believed over this confused mess, their size and scope will be expanded on the ground. Right...classic smoke and mirrors for the folks back home. But harder to do these days because reality is harder to ignore. Maybe Trudeau needs a Minister of Information to help keep the sheep in the dark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 That's nonsense. Each generation is inherently different from the last. Just ask GenX what they think of baby boomers. And technological advancements attest to those differences. Aaaaaand the difference between the baby boomers, GenX and millennials and all of the technology negates the use of diplomacy ...... how exactly? In the context of your post, that cliche does not apply. What about all those people who are not even aware there is a problem? How then can they be part of the solution? That expression is more appropriately applied in a micro environment, such as within a company or some other establishment, not when discussing the state of the world. If, for whatever reason you lack the financial resources to access the internet or the mental capacity for critical thinking, then it's fair that you might not be aware of the problem. But (as is the case with most adults), if you're just too busy making money or memorizing hockey stats or if you just avoid the truth because it's uncomfortable that billions of people don't even have a shot at a decent life, there's no excuse. The truth is out there, Skully. And it's not even hard to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 Maybe Trudeau needs a Minister of Information to help keep the sheep in the dark. No need, we already have our own Pravda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 The "hypocrisy" is with this Government still seeking to stay apart of this mission, and continuing on presently, with a yet to be explained (lesser) supporting role. Though I disagree, the NDP made their alternative "convictions" quite clear, versus the CPC's stance. An even bigger hypocrisy is this government's affirmation and continued support of the $15B arms deal with the Saudis. When it comes to international politics, hypocrisy is the norm. You guys just prefer the militaristic hypocrisy over the less militaristic kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 No, but I knew one of the pilots that died in the crash and was at the time employed by Boeing, on the dynamic component upgrade of the USN/USMC CH-46 fleet (same helicopter as our CH-113), a program intended to improve aircraft safety and the extension of service life....something the Canadian Labs should have been given after their replacement was cancelled. Simply put, Chretien campaigned on cancelling the replacement (EH-101) for our Sea King and Labrador (SAR) helicopters, both helicopters then past their best before dates. One of his first acts in Government was to do exactly that, then several years later, the Lab crashed due to a fire caused by a leaking fuel line, killing all on board.......Chretien's Government was embarrassed into replacing the SAR fleet, and purchased the same helicopter they cancelled years previous at a greater cost. Hence, Shady's claim is true (and cited now). Sea Kings still going strong too. Although we call them S 61's and pull logs out of the bush with them regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 When it comes to international politics, hypocrisy is the norm. You guys just prefer the militaristic hypocrisy over the less militaristic kind. It's the norm for domestic politics too...especially come election time. Go peacemongers ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 When it comes to international politics, hypocrisy is the norm. You guys just prefer the militaristic hypocrisy over the less militaristic kind. Sounds like a line from a Motorhead song I thought you spoke of convictions? The NDP had no qualms with articulating their position.........So this Government has no problems making happy mouth noises, but will still partake in militaristic adventures, just not promote it..........Trudeau part 2 is much like his dad, who had no qualms with Canadian companies providing munitions to the Americans for the Vietnam war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 It's the norm for domestic politics too...especially come election time. Go peacemongers !Maybe down where you live. Praise the Lord and pass the ammo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 But the international community has noticed.....in a tangible way by excluding Canada from important planning meetings for dealing with ISIS. British Defence Secretary Michael Fallon says Canada 'absolutely not' snubbed at ISIS meeting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted January 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 The coalition planning meeting was a story on CBCs The National last night, but they made no mention at all of Canadas abscence. They made no mention of Canada at all. You can only laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 It is terrible how some Canadians want to be the cowards of the world and never do a thing to help out. Oh we will send blankets, whoopy shit. We need allies in this world and not just for the military . These are the same people we have to deal with on a lot of other matters and they will not forget, that we had let them down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 Sea Kings still going strong too. Although we call them S 61's and pull logs out of the bush with them regularly. The problem with our Sea Kings is their age. Ours are very early models which went into service only two years after the USN started operating them. The USN retired theirs in the 90's except for some reserve units which operated them till 2006. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 It is terrible how some Canadians want to be the cowards of the world and never do a thing to help out. Oh we will send blankets, whoopy shit. We need allies in this world and not just for the military . These are the same people we have to deal with on a lot of other matters and they will not forget, that we had let them down. What's really terrible is people who want Canada to be so cowardly that we are afraid to have an independent foreign policy, especially when our so-called allies are pursuing cynical, self-defeating and conflicting aims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 What's really terrible is people who want Canada to be so cowardly that we are afraid to have an independent foreign policy, What's more telling is that Justin and company appear to be afraid of having an independent foreign policy. This fear is manifested in Liberal hesitancy to pull out our jets from the fight against Daesh in spite of promising to do so immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 What's more telling is that Justin and company appear to be afraid of having an independent foreign policy. This fear is manifested in Liberal hesitancy to pull out our jets from the fight against Daesh in spite of promising to do so immediately. Did they promise to do so immediately? Do you think our allies would appreciate us leaving before they can replace the 2% loss in capacity that our leaving will represent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) Once Canada had a reputation on the international scene as an honest broker, a country whose foreign policy promoted world peace not just domestic interests. That is a fairy tale served up by pompous liberals and media types who didn't like to acknowledge that Canada was irrelevant on the world scene. To hear these people spin their tails everyone in the world dropped to their knees in awe and wonder whenever a Canadian walked by. Needless to say they happily 'forget' the Chretien years when Chretien would trudge around the world with a long tail of industry leaders accompanying him doing 'deals' which mostly turned out not to work out, and ignoring human rights and all other concerns in desperate pursuit of contracts for Canadian companies. Edited January 21, 2016 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 What's really terrible is people who want Canada to be so cowardly that we are afraid to have an independent foreign policy, especially when our so-called allies are pursuing cynical, self-defeating and conflicting aims. The only criticism I ever heard of our foreign policy during Harper's time amounted to "We need to hate Jews more so the Muslims will like us." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 A trust has been broken Canada broke a trust with humanity decades ago when we let our friends drive drunk and knock off emerging democracies in favour of friendly dictators. Trudeau is a flake alright. His ambiguity and wishy-washiness about whether we're in or out disgusts me and I actually think it's the bigger contributor to the slow motion disaster that's been unfolding the last 60 years in the ME region. Trudeau should pick up a phone and order the planes home...last week. Then he should cancel the the armoured car deal with S.A. declare neutrality and start sanctioning anyone who insists on shipping weapons and reasons to use them to failed regions around the world and especially the ME. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted January 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 Did they promise to do so immediately? Do you think our allies would appreciate us leaving before they can replace the 2% loss in capacity that our leaving will represent? That is the problem with math.. Our 'cut and run' routine is a lot more substantive than 2% on the big scorecard kept by everybody. Particularly given the timing, right before the Paris slaughter. Does it matter that Canada or any country does something substantive in the coalition of allies?(and I am going to eliminate handing out blankets and training somebody vague as substantive). Yes it does, because everybody keeps a little scorecard on who puts up, because nobody ever shuts up. It ain't the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog. And the very first thing that trudeau did at PM-elect was to effectively roll over and show his belly to our longstanding friend and ally. He could have waited, he should have lkept quiet, he could have said 'in light of events, we are re- evaulating." Instead, he showboats and grandstands repeatedly and very publicly, but not another peep about this important international buntoss.. Are these really his chops??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 Trudeau promised and won with this particular promise as a key point on his platform. Disagree if you'd like. It obviously wasn't a big enough deal to the majority of Canadians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeferMadness Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 What's more telling is that Justin and company appear to be afraid of having an independent foreign policy. This fear is manifested in Liberal hesitancy to pull out our jets from the fight against Daesh in spite of promising to do so immediately. So, let's agree that this government could be clearer about the strategy. I'm willing to give them some more time to pull something together. But let's be clear about something else. The previous government got us into this campaign with no evidence that the bombing would help either the civilians on the ground or us. If we're bombing to help the civilians then we should be damned sure they want us there. I don't recall anyone among the "let's go drop bombs crowd" that has even bothered to ask that question. Not the media. Not the paranoid group who want to drop bombs in the hopes that there won't be so many refugees wanting to get in. And certainly not the government. It's more than just a little arrogant to drop bombs on someone else's homeland because we've determined we know what is best for them. And if we're bombing for our own selfish reasons because we're afraid ISIS is going to come and get us, there is even less evidence to support that. In fact, the reasons given for the attacks in Canada are that we are involved militarily in the middle east. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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