Derek 2.0 Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 You'd have to ask someone with actual knowledge of the reason to get an answer. I see, no critical thinking here....... I'm sure some of them were ill informed or ill considered. Irresponsible attaches a motive that I don't see evidence of. How does ill considered differ from irresponsible? Irresponsible acts, by their very nature, don't have a motive attached. Promising to contribute to global efforts to fight climate change and to resettle refugees certainly is. You're again attempting to move the goal post. Promises are easy........hence nothing of substance. Harper spent a lot of money we didn't have too. He did it for similar reasons overall (a shaky economy and a political mandate to fulfill certain promises). You didn't complain then. Neither did I. One of us is being hypocritical. I don't recall Harper doing a world photo-op tour, followed by a sunny vacation, well our economy was in free fall. Quote
Smallc Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) I see, no critical thinking here....... I can't give you a definitive answer, only educated guesses. How does ill considered differ from irresponsible? Irresponsible acts, by their very nature, don't have a motive attached. Irresponsible denotes some kind of reckless disregard. I see none of that. Promises are easy........hence nothing of substance. The refugees are on their way. The extra money has been delivered to the UN refugee agency. The money is on its way to the UN climate change fund. If you don't consider actual action to be substantive, I'm not sure what would satisfy you. I don't recall Harper doing a world photo-op tour, followed by a sunny vacation, well our economy was in free fall. A world photo op tour - the CWHOGM, G20, COP 21, and DAVOS. Harper went to all of those (not cop 21, but Copenhagen). He had his picture taken at all of them, too. As for where Trudeau goes over his break with his family (as if the PM is ever on vacation) - that's not your concern or mine, nor is it a failing. Edited January 22, 2016 by Smallc Quote
eyeball Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 I can't disagree with anything you say but has there ever been a Canadian leader (federal or provincial) who rose to this standard?That's no excuse for not seizing the moment. There's no time like the present. Now's his chance to make his mark.The world is dying of thirst for a principled leader who is not afraid to take principled action. I can't think of anything that would shake the world more right now than if Justin Trudeau told the Coalition military establishment to go piss up a rope. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
ReeferMadness Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 Maybe. It would be nice to see but I suspect his own party would remove him. And they'd be done in 2019 and consider the prospect of Prime Minister O'Leary. Ugh. I'm not convinced that the world is really thirsting for that much principle. People say they want honesty and integrity but most of them draw the line at telling them whether they have food stuck in their teeth. Look how much denial is going on about climate change and there are lots of people out there who say exactly what they mean. People respond with tin hat conspiracy theories. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 ...I can't think of anything that would shake the world more right now than if Justin Trudeau told the Coalition military establishment to go piss up a rope. Ummm...no...that would not shake the world at all. First the world would ask, "Who is Justin Trudeau ?" Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Rue Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 I support your initial comments Overthere snd feel the same way and defer to Shady for any further comments on this thread. Yesterday a father of a person killed in Burkina Faso by terrorists hung up on Trudeau when he called. His fluffy days of photo ops and Alice In Wonderland foreign policy is sad. Quote
waldo Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 What positions? They went to Paris with the Harper Governments promises...... considering there was an Oct 1 deadline for respective country INDC submissions... to be included within the prepared conference working summary, that Harper Conservative target emission reduction level (and related particulars), per the Canada INDC, was the reference point for Canada at the conference. Of course, that Harper Conservative submission was done in isolation of any meetings/discussion with the provinces... you know, the provinces that had been bringing forward related policy initiatives that Harper was certainly willing to take credit for! By the by, did not know that Harper promised 'carbon pricing' as a part of the federal response - who knew! Quote
Argus Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 The US is one of the biggest supporters of international terrorism in the world. And blew up the World Trade Center! And they're causing global warming, and cancer, and flatulence! And they're hiding all the aliens they've captured and are beaming secret messages to your brain that you can only protect against by wearing tinfoil! Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 That's because the procurement process is broken....just like the "trust". Cancellation fees are the norm. No, because the Chretien government cancelled the purchase for political reasons, and because Sikorsky seems to have forgotten how to make helicopters. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 Last I checked, they committed almost $3B of new money to climate change, and $100M to the international refugee agency. They're also in the process of fulfilling their promise on refugee numbers, though the timetable wasn't kept. That seems quite substantive. That's nice. Do you think at some point in the future they might do something designed to benefit Canada? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 You're moving the goal post. You said their foreign policy wasn't substantive. It's actually more substantive than that of the pervious government in many areas. Excellent! Name them, please. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Spiderfish Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) Responsible means you don't jut do things because you said them... No, that's called integrity. It's easy to say things without the benefit of all the information or the burden of governing. Isn't it, though? I would offer that making promises without the benefit of all of the information is foolish and irresponsible. Edited January 22, 2016 by Spiderfish Quote
Smallc Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 I would offer that making promises without the benefit of all of the information is foolish and irresponsible. If that's the test, every leader through history has been thus. Quote
Wilber Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 If that's the test, every leader through history has been thus. True but so far Trudeau has shown a love of the grand gesture. Reality is usually a lot more difficult. Time will tell if he is a quick learner. If he isn't, it could get very expensive. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Smallc Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 True but so far Trudeau has shown a love of the grand gesture. Reality is usually a lot more difficult. Time will tell if he is a quick learner. If he isn't, it could get very expensive. Grand gestures don't preclude dealing in reality. Quote
PIK Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 I have to give trudeau credit for what I just read. He told leo decrapo or whatever the actors name is, to shut up with the BS about the oil sands. He told him there is a lot of people that don't make the money you do and are losing their jobs. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
capricorn Posted January 22, 2016 Report Posted January 22, 2016 I have to give trudeau credit for what I just read. He told leo decrapo or whatever the actors name is, to shut up with the BS about the oil sands. He told him there is a lot of people that don't make the money you do and are losing their jobs. Looks to me like Dicaprio is a hypocrite when it comes to environment issues. Shortly after tripping over his own tongue concerning Alberta's chinooks, Hollywood hotshot Leonardo DiCaprio is slamming the province's most precious resource. And Alberta's oilpatch says it's time for a tutorial on the energy industry. That's the word from the body lobbying for Canada's oilpatch in the wake of DiCaprio's condemning the energy sector as a greedy assassin of the world's climate. "We simply cannot afford to let the corporate greed of the coal, oil and gas industries to determine the future of humanity," DiCaprio told an audience at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, Tuesday. http://www.calgarysun.com/2016/01/21/leo-dicaprio-takes-another-shot-at-oil-industry In 2000, Dicaprio starred in a movie titled The Beach and made millions as a result. The movie was filmed on a beach which was ruined by the filming. I did not hear one peep of condemnation on his part for the resulting desecration. Controversy arose during the making of the film due to 20th Century Fox's bulldozing and landscaping of the natural beach setting of Ko Phi Phi Lee to make it more "paradise-like". The production altered some sand dunes and cleared some coconut trees and grass to widen the beach. Fox set aside a fund to reconstruct and return the beach to its natural state; however, lawsuits were filed by environmentalists who believed the damage to the ecosystem was permanent and restoration attempts had failed.[6] Following shooting of the film, there was a clear flat area at one end of the beach that was created artificially with an odd layout of trees which were never rectified, and the entire area remained damaged from the original state until the tsunami of 2004. The lawsuits dragged on for years. In 2006, Thailand's Supreme Court upheld an appellate court ruling that the filming had harmed the environment and ordered that damage assessments be made. Defendants in the case included 20th Century Fox and some Thai government officials. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beach_%28film%29#Damage_to_filming_location Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
waldo Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 I have to give trudeau credit for what I just read. He told leo decrapo or whatever the actors name is, to shut up with the BS about the oil sands. He told him there is a lot of people that don't make the money you do and are losing their jobs. to "shut up"? Really - do you have a cite for those words? DiCaprio's Davos remarks had him 'ripping' on the corporate greed of Big Oil... the tarsands weren't directly mentioned. But, of course, he has commented on the tarsands many times in the past - Trudeau apparently took the liberty to speak directly to DiCaprio on that level regarding past tarsands related comments made. Equally, of course, your categorizing past statements on the tarsands as "BS" is simply your interpretation of those statements. The accounts I've read of the actual exchange between Trudeau and DiCaprio have Trudeau taking the opportunity to highlight new governments are in place at the national and Alberta provincial level... that both governments are, "working hard to do something serious about the issue of climate change/sustainable development"... with DiCaprio stating he, "would be the first to applaud if Canada began taking serious steps to address climate change". Quote
waldo Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 Looks to me like Dicaprio is a hypocrite when it comes to environment issues. wow, that's quite the... 15 year old find there! Don't see DiCaprio listed as a defendant... not sure what responsibility you think a single person/actor, any person/actor, would have in that regard. In any case, MLW member 'Simple' has several past posts targeting DiCaprio on more recent/directly relevant examples to reflect upon your concern. Of course, I had to burst Simple's last targeting by showcasing the significant efforts/costs DiCaprio take on in the form of purchased offsets to counter all the fake-outrage from those who might choose to charge hypocrisy in regards his 'environmental positions' versus personal 'carbon footprint'. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 I have to give trudeau credit for what I just read. He told leo decrapo or whatever the actors name is, to shut up with the BS about the oil sands. He told him there is a lot of people that don't make the money you do and are losing their jobs. Yeah, that's why Trudeau killed the Northern Gateway pipeline project....to give those people more jobs. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 Yeah, that's why Trudeau killed the Northern Gateway pipeline project....to give those people more jobs. was the Liberal Party position in support of KXL... to kill jobs? Quote
capricorn Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 wow, that's quite the... 15 year old find there! Thank you. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
waldo Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 Thank you. you're welcome... as I alluded to in a prior MLW post: the Future Forests UK organization calculated how many tons of CO2 DiCaprio emitted into the atmosphere during his daily life for the past 9-10 years... his so-called "personal carbon footprint" as he "jet-sets around the world" much to the chagrin of the anti-enviro types. To help balance out, or neutralize, his personal CO2 emissions, DiCaprio is, "having trees planted in a sustainable forestry project in Mexico and investing in a couple of alternative energy projects; a micro-hydro dam in Germany and Biomass Gasifiers in India". Quote
poochy Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 No doubt he also planted a few trees to compensate for the existence of the 200 million dollar super yacht that he borrowed last year, i would have thought the existence of such billionaire extravagance would be abhorrent to someone like him, such excess, but i suppose if the millionaires can plant some trees they shouldn't have to practice what they preach. Quote
waldo Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 No doubt he also planted a few trees to compensate for the existence of the 200 million dollar super yacht that he borrowed last year, i would have thought the existence of such billionaire extravagance would be abhorrent to someone like him, such excess, but i suppose if the millionaires can plant some trees they shouldn't have to practice what they preach. "what they preach"? I appreciate you anti-enviro types would prefer the so-called communicators would isolate themselves in a monastic sense... so you would never have to bring your fake-outrage to the surface. Imagine that, you don't accept someone neutralizing their personal carbon emissions through countering offset initiatives like investing in biomass and hydro projects... or paying for tree planting within a sustainable forestry reserve. Go figure! Quote
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