Keepitsimple Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 Then you must be ecstatic about all of this. If it's even half true, it's a step in the right direction. Quote Back to Basics
Keepitsimple Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) My previous post mysteriously disappeared - so here it is again - from The Star and Rosie DiManno - for those who still think there was "no snub": Critics are correct. That was one honking huge smack-down of the neophyte Trudeau regime by U.S. Defence Secretary Ash Carter and his French counterpart, as co-hosts of the palaver. Sajjan, a splendid career soldier with three tours of duty in Afghanistan, must be mortified, however he massages the sidelining dis, claiming no offence meant and none taken, delicately toeing the line as Liberal point-man on the Iraq file — a place he visited only last week for eyes-on as Ottawa struggles to find a coherent voice and its mission in the coalition effort. Camille Carrier, mother of Maude Carrier — murdered by Islamist fundamentalists last Friday in Burkina Faso, along with five other humanitarian workers from Quebec — had no trouble finding her outraged voice in an interview with Quebec radio station FM 93: “I’d like for Justin Trudeau, instead of condemning with words from his mouth, that with his planes he fights too,” she said, of the prime minister’s foolish campaign pledge to withdraw Canada’s six CF-18 Hornets from the bombing campaign. “I am ashamed. “I have plenty of friends in France who are ashamed of us.’’ I strongly suspect those Hornets won’t be bugging out of Iraq by March, as Trudeau had avowed, nor even April, as former Prime Minister Stephen Harper had intended. To adhere to his promise, under the circumstances — brutal Islamic attacks in Paris and elsewhere since the election — would make Trudeau look like a stubborn child incapable of conceding error. Link: http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/01/21/ignoring-the-elephant-in-the-warroom-dimanno.html Edited January 23, 2016 by Keepitsimple Quote Back to Basics
Smallc Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 If it's even half true, it's a step in the right direction. Why would any of those well respected people lie? Quote
Special Delivery Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 Seriously, Canada has a right to opt out of America's beefs and meddling abroad. If not for U.S. oil-based foreign policy, the terrorist acts would be minimal IMO. Quote
waldo Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 My previous post mysteriously disappeared - so here it is again - from The Star and Rosie DiManno - for those who still think there was "no snub": so you found a journalist that aligns with your preferred interpretation that Canada's token participation in the bombing campaign has significance... notwithstanding 2 of those country meeting invitees (Italy and Germany) have not actively participated themselves. I expect your prior post was pulled as it offers nothing new, nothing more than a single journalist interpretation... one you somehow project as a de facto and ruling assessment! If that's your measure, if I link to and quote from journalists with a differing opinion/position... whatchagonnado? Quote
Keepitsimple Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 so you found a journalist that aligns with your preferred interpretation that Canada's token participation in the bombing campaign has significance... notwithstanding 2 of those country meeting invitees (Italy and Germany) have not actively participated themselves. I expect your prior post was pulled as it offers nothing new, nothing more than a single journalist interpretation... one you somehow project as a de facto and ruling assessment! If that's your measure, if I link to and quote from journalists with a differing opinion/position... whatchagonnado? Give it a try and let's see...... Quote Back to Basics
capricorn Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 so you found a journalist that aligns with your preferred interpretation that Canada's token participation in the bombing campaign has significance... In addition to that one journalist, our own Defence Minister believes the coalition would be worse off without the participation of our jets. Interestingly, though, Sajjan has made it clear that the loss of Canadian planes will mean a reduction in the "capability" of the coalition — which he does not want to inflict without due deliberation. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/isis-bombing-cf-18s-trudeau-milewskie-1.3416472 If Sajjan thought our participation in the air mission was insignificant I doubt he would have articulated that opinion. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
Smallc Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 In addition to that one journalist, our own Defence Minister believes the coalition would be worse off without the participation of our jets. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/isis-bombing-cf-18s-trudeau-milewskie-1.3416472 If Sajjan thought our participation in the air mission was insignificant I doubt he would have articulated that opinion. And that's why the jets aren't gone yet. Denmark is returning to the fight after a planned absence (with 30 jets total, they can't stay all that long). When they return, it should give us the ability to pull our air bombing contribution without any negative effect on the coalition. Again, responsible. Quote
waldo Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 If Sajjan thought our participation in the air mission was insignificant I doubt he would have articulated that opinion. the more appropriate word might be "capacity" over "capability"... notwithstanding that's not a direct quote you're referencing - that's from a journalist. and yes, again, the rate of Canada bombing is symbolic; as of Jan 9, since inception, the number of CF-18 bombing sorties is just 5% of the coalition total and within that just 20% of that 5% actually had a target hit. And by the by, the stats I read don't make qualifying distinction on how many of those targets were "2 guys in a pickup"! Notwithstanding, as it turns out, all that big 'to-do' over Canada extending bombing to include Syria... well, Canada has flown a grand total of 4... four... sorties into Syria. In terms of actual airstrikes... actually hitting "something", Canada's rate of participation stands at 2.6% of all coalition airstrikes. Again, symbolic participation. as for actual statements, actual quotes from Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan: Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan stands firm on Syria airstrike withdrawal decision . Quote
Keepitsimple Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 And that's why the jets aren't gone yet. Denmark is returning to the fight after a planned absence (with 30 jets total, they can't stay all that long). When they return, it should give us the ability to pull our air bombing contribution without any negative effect on the coalition. Again, responsible. I see - you're covering your bases nicely. Now it will be "responsible" if we pull the jets - and if he leaves them in, well, it's the right think to do - and a sign of maturity that he can change his mind, right? Quote Back to Basics
Smallc Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 I see - you're covering your bases nicely. Now it will be "responsible" if we pull the jets No, I still don't agree with that (though I think we have every right to, and it does make sense). What's responsible is not leaving the coalition with a gap. Quote
Argus Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) So what should he do about the economy? Call the premiers together and get serious about getting rid of interprovincial trade barriers. Also force the pipeline projects through the maze of red tape and NIMBYism, and let's have a renovation tax credit while we're at it. Fastest way to create work. Edited January 23, 2016 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Keepitsimple Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 so you found a journalist that aligns with your preferred interpretation that Canada's token participation in the bombing campaign has significance... If that's your measure, if I link to and quote from journalists with a differing opinion/position... whatchagonnado? Haven't heard back from you - but maybe this excerpt from a recent Terry Milewski CBC article will help you along: And where, exactly, are the equally passionate counter-editorials? The government ministers insisting that this policy makes sense? Crickets. But someone will have to come up with some answers, and fast. Trudeau will soon be back, and so will Parliament. Link: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/isis-bombing-cf-18s-trudeau-milewskie-1.3416472 Quote Back to Basics
Smallc Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 Call the premiers together and get serious about getting rid of interprovincial trade barriers. Also force the pipeline projects through the maze of red tape and NIMBYism, and let's have a renovation tax credit while we're at it. Fastest way to create work. You cannot force pipeline projects through aboriginal land title, though I agree about the rest. At the same time, it looks like the government is prepared to focus infrastructure on projects that can be delivered now, and in areas that are hated hit, like Newfoundland, Saskatchewan and Alberta. Unfortunately, that will have to wait for April. Quote
waldo Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 Haven't heard back from you - but maybe this excerpt from a recent Terry Milewski CBC article will help you along: nice try - I just linked to an article from one of those 'government ministers' your latest referenced journalist pines for... and there's no shortage of like commentary and more recent commentary coming from that same minister, the key minister! Speaking of, as you say, "hearing back from you"... I believe you bailed on prior posts that highlighted the symbolic participation level of that CF-18 bombing and why you feel it's just so significant to keep that token rate of participation going... particularly in relation to the other participation pledges to maintain refueling and reconnaissance and to increase levels of training and humanitarian support? Let's hear back from you... Quote
Hal 9000 Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 Regardless of wether we or anyone else deems our involvement significant or symbolic is irrelevant, Sure, they'll allow us to keep out or jets in or allow them to leave, but not being involved in the strategy is embarrassing and a sure sign they just don't care about our involvement. For the Americans and more especially the Brits to tell us to just stay away is a true testament to what they think of our new government. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
capricorn Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 the more appropriate word might be "capacity" over "capability"... It's interesting that you refuse to accept what journalists say as truthful but then you engage in amending the words journalists used in their opinion pieces to suit your position. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
waldo Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 It's interesting that you refuse to accept what journalists say as truthful but then you engage in amending the words journalists used in their opinion pieces to suit your position. it's interesting that you can convey a journalist's words... interpreted words, as the spoken word of an individual. I'm not clear on your concern here: pointing out the statement isn't a direct quote is nothing more than that. Good on ya for reinforcing the opinion aspect of those respective journalists. Quote
waldo Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 For the Americans and more especially the Brits to tell us to just stay away is a true testament to what they think of our new government. it's nothing more than your preferred interpretation; one that has been countered by both the British Defense Minister and the U.S. ambassador. You choose to accept... and project... that Canada can't provide an alternate military commitment through refueling, reconnaissance and training. In spite of statistics that clearly show the level of Canadian bombing participation is symbolic relative to the overall coalition, you're adamant that "bombs must fly"! Quote
capricorn Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 Regardless of wether we or anyone else deems our involvement significant or symbolic is irrelevant, Actually, if our Defence Minister states our withdrawal from the air mission would leave a gap for the coalition, I would think he deems our role as important to the fight against Daesh. But he gets his marching orders from Trudeau Jr. and the Cabinet so it's looking more and more that he's walking a tightrope. In television appearances this week, Minister Sajjan said Canada didn’t want to create a “gap” in the coalition for pulling the jets out, and it was investigating ways the country could contribute more to the fight. Let us make sure we have this straight: the Liberals want to pull the jets out of the coalition, but not in a way that creates a gap, and is investigating how to do more while pledging to honour its commitment to do less. One would like to believe this was all some sort of clever disinformation campaign, intended to confuse ISIL, and leave them wondering as to our next move. But the reality is less interesting, and sadder — the government simply doesn’t know what it’s doing. http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/matt-gurney-canadas-syrian-mission-isnt-broken-so-the-liberals-cant-figure-out-how-to-fix-it Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
Hal 9000 Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 Sajjan didn't look at all convinced in what he was saying. In fact, I'd use the word awkward. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
capricorn Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 Sajjan didn't look at all convinced in what he was saying. In fact, I'd use the word awkward. Most definitely. And I'm afraid it's just going to get worse for him. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
Hal 9000 Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 it's nothing more than your preferred interpretation; one that has been countered by both the British Defense Minister and the U.S. ambassador. You choose to accept... and project... that Canada can't provide an alternate military commitment through refueling, reconnaissance and training. In spite of statistics that clearly show the level of Canadian bombing participation is symbolic relative to the overall coalition, you're adamant that "bombs must fly"! No, I'm adamant that out long standing Allies don't want us involved in their meeting. They don't even want us in the room, let alone helping in strategic planning. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
capricorn Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 it's interesting that you can convey a journalist's words... Ah, that's only made possible by a superior ability to read. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
waldo Posted January 23, 2016 Report Posted January 23, 2016 No, I'm adamant that out long standing Allies don't want us involved in their meeting. They don't even want us in the room, let alone helping in strategic planning. yes, your adamance is noted! Bully for you. The only thing you can directly point to that has changed between Harper and Trudeau are pledges to stop bombing participation and to increase training support/commitments. In the face of 2 prominent countries (Italy and Germany) also not participating in the U.S. led bombing campaign... what else do you have? Quote
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