Donald vs Hillary

[dre]

Right but the underlying reason for all of this is because communist economies don't work. If communist economies worked as well as free markets, then the USSR could have matched the US in military expenditures and maintained a vibrant economy.

Both communism and capitalism in their pure forms are completely unworkable. Western countries all have mixed economies with a lot of central planning and state ownership.

Also the soviet example is not a very good one. First of all their system WAS able to create a world super power. And second of all its a bad example because they were under siege by most of the world, which doesn't help your economic prospects.

Cuba would be a better example. It has a higher standard of life than almost all of its latin american peers. There's also dozens of countries with mostly private ownership of production that are dirt poor.

I would personally never want to live in EITHER a capitalist or communist country... Thats why I live in Canada.

[Argus]

A true conservative is someone who believes in more freedom, less government, and less taxes. Sounds just like me. But just where did you get the idea that I am of the latter? Please explain, if you can?

Conservatism means valuing traditions over change, and not wanting change unless that change is proven as better, or at least needed. It means paying the bills and maintaining law and order.

It does not mean embracing crank views from the far, far right, which have no substance to them. It does not mean embracing racism and conspiracy theories. It does not mean supporting demagogues whose economic and social positions and views are absurd to the point of lunacy.

For Trump being an ignoramus he sure has done quite well making lots of money, and owns lots of property. Are you jealous? So, just how many millions or billions do you have in your bank account, or how much property do you own, uhmm?

I'm pretty sure that if my daddy had left me 20,000 rental apartments I'd be pretty darned rich now, and that I wouldn't have gone bankrupt four times along the way. I'd probably be giving lots of money to charity, too.

[Charles Anthony]

Guys,

Please avoid thread drift.

[Argus]

Trump was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, never shown a single bit of care or even awareness of the problems of middle class America.

Meanwhile, Clinton has spent decades working with the poor and helping to improve education.

We're supposed to believe HE'S the champion of the middle class.

Trump had to be sued by the justice department for refusing to rent to blacks. After he pleaded no contest and promised to reform, he was sued again for refusing to rent to blacks.

People who worked for his casino have testified they shoved minorities into a side room when Trump came by, and he said it was a mistake to have a black accountant, that only Jews can do accounting. He's also called Hispanic illegals (from whom the majority of American hispanics descend) rapists and killers. He's said "black people, you all live in slums and have miserable, crappy schools!" Probably a surprise to the Black middle class.

Meanwhile Clinton has worked with minorities all her life, including working to protect hispanic agricultural workers from abuse and working to improve black schools.

But Trump says she's the bigot.

Trump got a mysterious 'bone spur' for which there is no record, which exempted him from serving in Vietnam, but we're to believe he's a big supporter of the military.

Trump cheated on his first wife with his second, and cheated on his second with his third, but we're to believe he's a religious man (though he never went to church except for weddings and funerals)

Trump inherited his money, and ran bankrupt several times. Economists agree his vague economic plans would be disastrous for the US economy and lead to massively more debt - in no small part to fund a huge tax cut for himself and other wealthy elites. But we're to believe he's a great businessman.

Trump has lied about everything in his life. He's lied about his wealth and called himself the biggest real estate tycoon in New York (not even close). He's lied about what he's seen and done and heard, from "thousands of Muslims celebrating the WTC bombing in New Jersey" to his winery being the largest on the east coast (nope), to how much he gives in charity (almost nothing). And he lies about things like how much taxes the US pays, trade relationships, manufacturing and the state of the economy to 'hand picking' the instructors at his fraudulent university.

But he calls others liars.

And some wonder why most sane people support Clinton?

Edited August 27, 2016 by Argus

[bush_cheney2004]

....Meanwhile Clinton has worked with minorities all her life, including working to protect hispanic agricultural workers from abuse and working to improve black schools.

... and welfare "reform", crime bill, mandatory prison sentences, etc.

The last thing America's "middle class" and "minorities" need is another limousine liberal looking out for their best interests.

 ...In her support for the 1994 crime bill, for example, she used racially coded rhetoric to cast black children as animals. “They are not just gangs of kids anymore,” she said. “They are often the kinds of kids that are called ‘super-predators.’ No conscience, no empathy. We can talk about why they ended up that way, but first we have to bring them to heel.”

https://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clinton-does-not-deserve-black-peoples-votes/

Edited August 27, 2016 by bush_cheney2004

[taxme]

Conservatism means valuing traditions over change, and not wanting change unless that change is proven as better, or at least needed. It means paying the bills and maintaining law and order.

It does not mean embracing crank views from the far, far right, which have no substance to them. It does not mean embracing racism and conspiracy theories. It does not mean supporting demagogues whose economic and social positions and views are absurd to the point of lunacy.

I'm pretty sure that if my daddy had left me 20,000 rental apartments I'd be pretty darned rich now, and that I wouldn't have gone bankrupt four times along the way. I'd probably be giving lots of money to charity, too.

You really have to get away from all of that far, far right stuff just because you do not agree with what some websites have to say. Not all websites are full of racism and conspiracy theories nonsense. Some have much to say that appears to be very credible and proposes that adding a little bit of common sense and logic to the mix can make us think that just maybe the other person may be trying to tell me something that I was not aware of.

It all depends on what one wants to see as to what is being said, and whether it works for them or not. And if they do not agree with what has been said then they try to take what is being said out of context to suit their own views and agendas on a certain topic. And then the mocking and insults and attacks begin against others whom they do not agree with. Label and accuse them of being something that they may not be at all.

There are many websites that are free from promoting Nazism, white supremacy, racism, and absurd conspiracies, and there are many absurd ones, but many are not. Just because a website may look like one of those mentioned above does not have to mean that they are. The problem with most people is that they refuse to accept others who have an opinion or point of view that they do not like. We need to give the other person their dues once in awhile. It's called tolerance of others opinions and points of view and having an open mind, not a closed one like so many appear to have.

Works for me.

[taxme]

Conservatism means valuing traditions over change, and not wanting change unless that change is proven as better, or at least needed. It means paying the bills and maintaining law and order.

It does not mean embracing crank views from the far, far right, which have no substance to them. It does not mean embracing racism and conspiracy theories. It does not mean supporting demagogues whose economic and social positions and views are absurd to the point of lunacy.

I'm pretty sure that if my daddy had left me 20,000 rental apartments I'd be pretty darned rich now, and that I wouldn't have gone bankrupt four times along the way. I'd probably be giving lots of money to charity, too.

By the looks of things, I guess that your daddy did not leave you anywhere close to 20,000 rental apartments, now did he? Aw well, too bad for you, and also for me. But I would ask you this. If you were as rich as Trump is, I wonder if you would really give anything to charity? You say you would but would you? Money has a big effect on some people in different ways. And would you donate money to charity only for the purpose of writing it off on your taxes? In most cases millionaires and billionaires only give money to charities because those donations can be used as a write-off in their taxes. I am pretty sure that all the money that the Clinton's get for their Clinton foundation probably 80% goes into running the foundation and some goes in their pockets. The Clinton's are not the nice people that the lame duck media like to portray them as, and some sheeple eat it up like it were candy.

And so what if Trump has gone bankrupt many times. Trump is and has always been involved in so many business adventures over his life time. One cannot expect that every adventure that Trump gets himself involved in is going to work out for Trump. Think about that for awhile before you try attacking Trump on something else that the main scream liberal loser media continually tries to do. I am long gone past the days listening to what the corporate main scream liberal media has to say. They cannot bull crap me anymore with anything they say these days. Just watching them as they constantly attack Trump over everything he says and does with hatred in their eyes while Hillary gets the all smiles treatment and easy questions for her to answer. This tells me as to who the media are rooting for, and then who I would vote for, and it won't be Hillary. I have learned over the years that when the main scream media goes after someone with constant attacks, I know that person must have something to say that the media does not want me to listen too and vote for. The media will have to pull a fast one on me to make believe anything they say anymore. Works for me.

[taxme]

Trump was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, never shown a single bit of care or even awareness of the problems of middle class America.

Meanwhile, Clinton has spent decades working with the poor and helping to improve education.

We're supposed to believe HE'S the champion of the middle class.

Trump had to be sued by the justice department for refusing to rent to blacks. After he pleaded no contest and promised to reform, he was sued again for refusing to rent to blacks.

People who worked for his casino have testified they shoved minorities into a side room when Trump came by, and he said it was a mistake to have a black accountant, that only Jews can do accounting. He's also called Hispanic illegals (from whom the majority of American hispanics descend) rapists and killers. He's said "black people, you all live in slums and have miserable, crappy schools!" Probably a surprise to the Black middle class.

Meanwhile Clinton has worked with minorities all her life, including working to protect hispanic agricultural workers from abuse and working to improve black schools.

But Trump says she's the bigot.

Trump got a mysterious 'bone spur' for which there is no record, which exempted him from serving in Vietnam, but we're to believe he's a big supporter of the military.

Trump cheated on his first wife with his second, and cheated on his second with his third, but we're to believe he's a religious man (though he never went to church except for weddings and funerals)

Trump inherited his money, and ran bankrupt several times. Economists agree his vague economic plans would be disastrous for the US economy and lead to massively more debt - in no small part to fund a huge tax cut for himself and other wealthy elites. But we're to believe he's a great businessman.

Trump has lied about everything in his life. He's lied about his wealth and called himself the biggest real estate tycoon in New York (not even close). He's lied about what he's seen and done and heard, from "thousands of Muslims celebrating the WTC bombing in New Jersey" to his winery being the largest on the east coast (nope), to how much he gives in charity (almost nothing). And he lies about things like how much taxes the US pays, trade relationships, manufacturing and the state of the economy to 'hand picking' the instructors at his fraudulent university.

But he calls others liars.

And some wonder why most sane people support Clinton?

Many politicians have found excuses to be able to get out of serving in the military. Nothing new here? So, what's your point?

Hillary is no champion of the middle class. She has been in politics for decades now, and apparently many in the the middle class are in bad shape these days. Yup, for a champion of the middle class she appears to have not done much for them.

Trump has worked with many blacks and Hispanics, and as given many of them a job. The blacks and Hispanics don't seem to appear as though they hate Trump. We see many at Trump rallies. Are we going to say that these blacks and Hispanics are nuts in the head for wanting to vote for Trump?

Maybe Trump was being sued for not renting to blacks because maybe he found out that they were involved in gangs or on welfare where they would not be able to pay their rent. Who knows? And everyone knows that Hispanics that have come to America illegally have raped and killed women and killed men also. We know that the media can play with words and take them out of context and make anyone look bad that they don't like. It happens all the time. So, what else is new?

Trump has called Hillary a liar and she has not taken him up on that. I guess that Hillary tells fibs like everyone else does, eh?

Old Billy Clinton apparently did a lot of cheating on Hillary. Even as President he was suppose to be having affairs with women in the White House when Hillary was not around, I assume? And why would Hillary stay with a man who constantly cheated on her? Doesn't show much class on her part, now does it? Hillary looks good in front of the camera, but some who have had dealings with her have said not so nice things about her. Very nasty.

I believe that anyone who votes for Hillary must be really short on brain cells. As Trump has said many times, Hillary is nothing but a crook and is a liar among so many other criminal things that she has suppose to have been involved in. If Hillary is all candy too you then eat her all up. But remember this, too much sugar is not good for your health. And I don't think that Hillary is good for anybody's health. My opinion, of course.

[bush_cheney2004]

...Many politicians have found excuses to be able to get out of serving in the military. Nothing new here? So, what's your point?

True...Hillary Clinton has no military service either. She claims to have tried to join the Marines back in 1975, and of course she also claims to have come under sniper fire in Bosnia (1996).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/05/23/recalling-hillary-clintons-claim-of-landing-under-sniper-fire-in-bosnia/

[sharkman]

Yeah, she was hostage on one of the 9/11 planes too. Apparently her body was thrown clear and she made her way down the stairs before the building collapsed! Oh wait, I wasn't supposed to tell, that info will be released later on.

The lies come fast and furious where elections are concerned

[Guest]

The lies come fast and furious where elections are concerned

And yet PolitiFact fact checked statements made by all the potential nominees, and though all have made false statements, Hillary is among the most truthful while Trump is among the most dishonest.

[sharkman]

Good lord, if they've got her as among the most truthful they're homers and full of it. You'll keep following them though, as long as their bias lines up with yours.

[Guest]

Good lord, if they've got her as among the most truthful they're homers and full of it. You'll keep following them though, as long as their bias lines up with yours.

Earlier in this thread I shared a story about a right wing radio host who laments the fact that he has been part of the movement to discredit facts and reality. His point was that 20 years of bashing media has created a group of people who distrust any fact that doesn't jive with what they want to believe. When that happens logic and truth cease to matter.

PolitiFact is a Pulitzer Prize winning organization, that simply fact checks the statements made by politicians. Using your critical thinking skills, what are the chances that a respected, award winning project, that discloses it's methodology on every fact check is lying and the right-wing media sources that portray Hillary as dishonest are truthful?

[sharkman]

And Obama was given an award, the Nobel Peace prize, for what again? If you were to use objective critical thinking, you'd be able to see that Hillary is not among the most honest. The FBI caught her in several outright lies on one topic! Obviously there is no use discussing this with you, if you can't recognize that then you are unable to think critically in areas where your bias gets in the way.

Edited August 30, 2016 by sharkman

[Argus]

And Obama was given an award, the Nobel Peace prize, for what again? If you were to use objective critical thinking, you'd be able to see that Hillary is not among the most honest

Among the most honest WHAT?

Perhaps you'd like to produce a list of 'honest' politicians for us and grade her on a scale.

[sharkman]

Slick is the one who's defending her honesty, perhaps he can continue. If you follow our conversation, I'm not saying politicians are honest, so no, I'll not present any lists!

[Guest]

Slick is the one who's defending her honesty, perhaps he can continue. If you follow our conversation, I'm not saying politicians are honest, so no, I'll not present any lists!

I'm just quoting the results of an organization that has won a Pulitzer Prize for fact checking politicians. Here are the results in chart form and the link to the actual PolitiFact site is listed below, where details on the statements in each category can be found.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/fact-checking-2016-gop-presidential-candidates/

Edited August 31, 2016 by Guest

[Argus]

Slick is the one who's defending her honesty, perhaps he can continue. If you follow our conversation, I'm not saying politicians are honest, so no, I'll not present any lists!

She seems to be a hell of a lot more honest, not to mention sane, than Trump. And that's the only scale that counts.

[?Impact]

Here are the results in chart form

Jeb Bush had the unfortunate luck to be born into the wrong family.

[taxme]

Earlier in this thread I shared a story about a right wing radio host who laments the fact that he has been part of the movement to discredit facts and reality. His point was that 20 years of bashing media has created a group of people who distrust any fact that doesn't jive with what they want to believe. When that happens logic and truth cease to matter.

PolitiFact is a Pulitzer Prize winning organization, that simply fact checks the statements made by politicians. Using your critical thinking skills, what are the chances that a respected, award winning project, that discloses it's methodology on every fact check is lying and the right-wing media sources that portray Hillary as dishonest are truthful?

Even the left wing radio hosts do the same thing and try to distort and discredit Trump. The left wing media has been bashing conservatives for decades. So, what's your point. Trump has said many times that he is not a politician and he is not politically correct. That should mean something. Trump even called the political system rigged. When did you ever hear any politician say something like that? But then again there are those who just don't or won't listen to the message being told to them. The corporate globalist elites and their media controls how they are going to eat and think.

[taxme]

Jeb Bush had the unfortunate luck to be born into the wrong family.

I think that Jeb is quite happy with the family that he was born into. I am pretty sure that he is happy like hell that he was not born into a poor family, and ended up living in a run down section of Harlem. Now that truly would be unfortunate for him.

[betsy]

Why no press conference?

It’s been 263 days since Hillary Clinton last held a press conference.

That’s a dangerous precedent.

WALLACE: I used to work on campaigns and — and I would look at this as your candidate's number one vulnerability is the fact that, again, someone as flawed as Donald Trump, she has a double-digit deficit on the question of honesty and trustworthiness.

Isn't the antidote to this to sit her down today in front of your traveling press corps people like Andrea Mitchell, who certainly can appreciate the contributions of people like Melinda Gates and — and others, and let her take questions until there are no more questions to be answered?

MOOK: Well, first of all, Hillary's done over 300 interviews this year alone.

WALLACE: I'm not — I didn't talk about — and I know the difference between a three minute ground-ruled interview and a press conference because I — I've put on a couple of each. But why wouldn't you have her do a press conference today just to — you — you have a perception problem on the question of honesty and trustworthiness, why wouldn't you put her out there to your traveling press corps who knows all the intricacies of sort of the defense you laid out, which is — which is legitimate? But this is about the perception.

Why wouldn't you put her out there to answer questions that she could certainly handle if — if your defense is true?

MOOK: Well, we are — she is out there answering questions.

WALLACE: She's going to do a press conference today?

MOOK: As I said, she — she's done over 300 interviews this year — and she — she takes questions in a variety of formats and we're going to — we're going to keep looking at that.

A few things:

1. I don't doubt Mook's numbers on how many interviews Clinton has granted over the past year. But as Wallace notes, sitdown, one-on-one interviews aren't the same thing as a free-wheeling press conference. There are lots and lots of ground rules that govern sit-downs — most notably a typically strict time limit that makes pursuing any particular line of questioning in any real depth almost impossible. And then there is the fact that an interview with, say, Jimmy Kimmel, isn't the same thing as a press conference with reporters from The Washington Post, New York Times and the TV networks. Kimmel is a comedian not a reporter.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/08/24/hillary-clinton-still-has-no-good-answer-on-why-she-hasnt-held-a-press-conference-in-263-days/

Edited September 1, 2016 by betsy

[sharkman]

She seems to be a hell of a lot more honest, not to mention sane, than Trump. And that's the only scale that counts.

Well lets get one thing straight, off the hop. Trump sucks. There is no getting around his ego and his mouth, and how he rose to become the Rep candidate is beyond me. But you seem to be in denial about Clinton. She lied her ass off about Benghazi, and she lied her ass off to the FBI. She lied her ass off about her emails and continues to do so, lying continually about the Clinton Foundation and her health issues as well.

Now I know that Clinton lemmings around here will support her no matter what she does, and no doubt have all the talking points cued up regarding all of the above. But you're not a lemming, and you don't brainwash yourself with all of the hard left extremist sites out there. You do know that she lies her ass off whenever needed, right?

Edited September 1, 2016 by sharkman

[Argus]

Well lets get one thing straight, off the hop. Trump sucks. There is no getting around his ego and his mouth, and how he rose to become the Rep candidate is beyond me. But you seem to be in denial about Clinton. She lied her ass off about Benghazi, and she lied her ass off to the FBI. She lied her ass off about her emails and continues to do so, lying continually about the Clinton Foundation and her health issues as well.

You have nothing. Not a shred of evidence to support any of this array of innuendo created by FOX news. Nothing whatsoever on her health. Nothing on Benghazi. Nothing on the Clinton Foundation. And nothing on emails. There's nothing there, just innuendo. When you actually start asking for details among the breathless, wide eyed yelling about 'Lock her up!" and how she caused Benghazi everyone sort of shuffles their feet, looks over their shoulders and starts whistling.

Every month new emails are released in a well-orchestrated campaign to keep the issue alive, but no one can point to any harm caused or to any case in history where someone in government who mistakenly sent emails with a classified designation that wasn't encrypted was ever even charged with anything.

The Republicans held what, eight thousand separate investigations into Benghazi in hopes of pinning something on her. What did they come up with? Nothing.

The Clinton Foundation is her husband's presidential retirement project. It supports medical treatment, clean water, etc. projects around the world. It's not like donating money to it makes the Clinton's rich. So where is the quid pro quo? Nobody ever gets that far. All they try to do is make a connection between a few people who donated to this foundation getting tickets to a speech or getting to meet someone. Big deal.

Health? Nothing but Breitbart crap, sleazy innuendo.

Meanwhile we have Trump spending his life screwing people, screwing investors, screwing partners, screwing suppliers, screwing anyone who trusted him and joined his so-called university, screwing hopeful young models at his modelling agency, and lying about every single aspect of his life. He's a sleazy, narcissistic demagogue whose proposals, vague as they are, are mostly impossible, would heavily damage the US economy, and would profit only, well, him and other rich people.

[TimG]

It's not like donating money to it makes the Clinton's rich. So where is the quid pro quo?

It is a common tactic by the super rich in the US to set up foundations and then collect salaries for their role as "directors". This allows their assets to grows tax free while providing a steady stream of income for life. The bigger the foundation the bigger the salaries that can be drawn. So while I agree 100% with your point that all politicians offer personal meetings with large doners, I also think it is wrong to say that donations to the Clinton Foundation do not benefit the Clinton's directly.