SpankyMcFarland Posted July 22, 2016 Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 Fluent speech by Trump with some of the wilder rhetoric trimmed off. Now for him the tough part begins of staying on message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted July 22, 2016 Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 Nice message! David Duke, the former grand wizard for the Ku Klux Klan, wrote on Twitter: "Great Trump Speech, America First! Stop Wars! Defeat the Corrupt elites! Protect our Borders!, Fair Trade! Couldn't have said it better!" That says it all from a great source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebound Posted July 22, 2016 Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 Fluent speech by Trump with some of the wilder rhetoric trimmed off. Now for him the tough part begins of staying on message. Are we listening to the same speech? The "wild rhetoric" wasn't so much "trimmed off", as it was hidden between the lines. "This use of fear to destroy democracy is so old that it’s described exactly in Plato’s Republic, written in Ancient Greece around 380 B.C. Tyranny, says Socrates in The Republic, is actually “an outgrowth of democracy.” And would-be tyrants always in every instance claim to be shielding regular people from terrible danger: “This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears above ground he is a protector.” Trump said that he is going to “protect” Americans or some aspect of American life 13 times tonight." https://theintercept.com/2016/07/21/donald-trumps-convention-speech-rings-terrifying-historical-alarm-bells/ ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankyMcFarland Posted July 22, 2016 Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 Are we listening to the same speech? The "wild rhetoric" wasn't so much "trimmed off", as it was hidden between the lines. "This use of fear to destroy democracy is so old that it’s described exactly in Plato’s Republic, written in Ancient Greece around 380 B.C. Tyranny, says Socrates in The Republic, is actually “an outgrowth of democracy.” And would-be tyrants always in every instance claim to be shielding regular people from terrible danger: “This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears above ground he is a protector.” Trump said that he is going to “protect” Americans or some aspect of American life 13 times tonight." https://theintercept.com/2016/07/21/donald-trumps-convention-speech-rings-terrifying-historical-alarm-bells/ ... Yes it's still there e.g. he's still going to build a wall but no mention of Mexico paying for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebound Posted July 22, 2016 Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) Trump's approach... to treat the government as a business ... to make it efficient, produce jobs, reward effort and competence, etc. etc. sounds like a no-brainer, But there a number of obstacles: In business, he is the boss. In government, he has 2 other bosses that he has to contend with... the Supreme Court and Congress.... and if you throw in the electorate, that's three. Of course he would like to own the Supreme Court and Congress, but that would hardly be constitutional. In business, anybody who can't do the job...for whatever reason...is fired and removed from the property, never to be worried about again. Similarly, if I have enough people to do the necessary work, I simply don't hire any more and I close the gate to the recruitment tent, telling the lineup outside to "go home".. You can't really do that in a society. Somebody who is not pulling his weight (or unable to do so), is still on the property. And if there is not enough work to go around, those extra unemployed bodies are also still on the property. And unless you want them to die and rot right there on your floors, you have to do something about taking care of them....if only to keep them from tearing down your building for spite. And that's the tricky bit. How do we handle those who won't, can't, or are not needed??... because they are NOT going away. I am sure that Trump can build, and I am sure that he can take care of the people who are able and willing participants in the building. (although there may be some questions about the financing and compensation, but I digress) But the 80/20 rule applies to anything and in the political realm, it appears that 80 percent of the effort is needed to solve the problems of the unable, the less able, the un-needed, and yes, the less-willing and unwilling. Good luck to either of them. ... Edited July 22, 2016 by Icebound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebound Posted July 22, 2016 Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) Yes it's still there e.g. he's still going to build a wall but no mention of Mexico paying for it. I think that was clarified by his buddies on the CNN panel. I believe it had something to do with this speech intending to lay out the "what", and the "how" comes later. When asked that same question, they made the point that yes, Mexico will pay for it. Edited July 22, 2016 by Icebound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 22, 2016 Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 I think that was clarified by his buddies on the CNN panel. I believe it had something to do with this speech intending to lay out the "what", and the "how" comes later. When asked that same question, they made the point that yes, Mexico will pay for it. Mexico can't afford to. And if somehow you could force them to by attacking their economy what you'd wind up with is a huge flood of illegals crossing the border looking for work. And just how tough is this wall going to be? I mean, you can spend days putting up a wall but one guy with a couple of sticks of dynamite can blow it down in twenty seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted July 22, 2016 Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 I think that was clarified by his buddies on the CNN panel. I believe it had something to do with this speech intending to lay out the "what", and the "how" comes later. When asked that same question, they made the point that yes, Mexico will pay for it. Only in Trump's delusions. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankyMcFarland Posted July 22, 2016 Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) I think that was clarified by his buddies on the CNN panel. I believe it had something to do with this speech intending to lay out the "what", and the "how" comes later. When asked that same question, they made the point that yes, Mexico will pay for it. Wolf Blitzer asked the question and either Manafort or Miller (the speechwriter who looks like he popped off a Mad Man episode) answered it. These days when your surrogates repeat something it's not as truthy as you doing it, apparently. Amazing to see Trump feuding with Cruz again today, completely off message as Pence looked on, well, pensively. You could imagine him seeking to settle a lot of scores as President. Edited July 22, 2016 by SpankyMcFarland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 22, 2016 Report Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) Amazing to see Trump feuding with Cruz again today, completely off message as Pence looked on, well, pensively. You could imagine him seeking to settle a lot of scores as President. I can EASILY see that. I was thinking about it the other day. Now all he can do is launch frivolous lawsuits and insult people. Wait until he can call in the FBI to investigate someone, or have the IRS do audits on them, or if the person who has annoyed him owns a company there are any number of regulatory bodies he can order to investigate it or cause trouble. And given his hyper sensitivity to those who disagree with him and his complete lack of respect for what is commonly considered civilized or appropriate behaviour... Look at Chris Christie's people closing down most of a bridge to create traffic chaos in the jurisdiction of a political opponent. You think Trump is above that sort of thing? You think he wouldn't say, hmm, let's cut back on the number of TSA agents at the airport in Los Angeles, San Fransisco and San Diego because he's irked at the governor of California. Or maybe, let's delay all federal transfers to Maryland, or, hey, let's let leak that there's a big investigation from the securities and exchange commission into this or that organization. Trump will use all the agencies of government to get back at those he considers to be his enemies. And if anyone thinks anyone he appoints to run these agencies would hold their job long after saying no they haven't been watching him. Edited July 22, 2016 by Argus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 Clinton moves to the center with Tim Kaine VP selection. Take that "progressives" ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannuck Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) I, too was hoping for a Sanders win, which would have made it tough to endorse Trump. If you tell me you built a factory, and from that factory, you built widgets, you have my respect. BUT: when you brag about building yet another blood and scum sucking office tower, you have created nothing of any value, in fact you have devalued your country. Wall Street and the mass of useless tits in the speculative game of Casino Capitalism are the problem, not the solution. BUT: since it is between a genuine business guy (even though I disagree with his "product") a lying (******* *****), I'll be glad to give The Donald my nod (can't vote, Canadian citizen, but all of our employees can and WILL be voting the Trump. You see, we produce things. Edited July 23, 2016 by cannuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) BUT: since it is between a genuine business guy (even though I disagree with his "product") a lying (******* *****), I'll be glad to give The Donald my nod (can't vote, Canadian citizen, but all of our employees can and WILL be voting the Trump. You see, we produce things. Rather than listing all the lies Trump has spewed I'll pose you a challenge. What has Trump ever said about himself that is truthful? And if you would like a bonus question. What policy or proposal has Trump actually listed any details for? As someone recently wrote 90% of what Trump says is bombastic bullshit scaremongering and 10% is vague generalities and ridiculously unworkable proposals about what to do about it. Edited July 23, 2016 by Argus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 A recent column from a Republican on why Republicans should vote for... Clinton, seems intelligently thought-out. Clinton’s record of working with Republicans in the Senate suggests she would. Although she’s taken criticism for overstating her record of bipartisanship, she was hardly a partisan shill in the Senate. Sixty-eight percent of her bills had GOP co-sponsors. And she worked closely with such Republican lightning rods as Tom DeLay (adoption issues), Sam Brownback (human trafficking) and Jeff Sessions (veterans’ benefits) to pass legislation that mattered. Further, Clinton’s sometimes-close relationships with Sens. John McCain and Lindsey O. Graham suggest that their influence will lead to a more muscular foreign policy agenda than not only the current president’s but the GOP nominee’s as well http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/a-republican-explains-why-other-members-of-the-gop-should-vote-for-hillary-clinton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebound Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 Clinton moves to the center with Tim Kaine VP selection. Take that "progressives" ! From the outside looking in we see: supports Obama's Affordable Care Act opposed to death penalty favors a path to citizenship for immigrants universal kindergarten ban smoking in bars and restaurants agrees with need to address climate change favors environmentalist's causes pro gun-control Planned Parenthood likes his pro-choice voting record, Changed view and supported same-sex marriage since 2013 How happy would Progressives be if even half of that were applied universally throughout the USA? That leaves: Supports the TPP ... is that progressive or is that conservative? Supports off-shore drilling Signed a letter suggesting looser regulations on smaller banks Hawkish foreign policy (including strong Pro-Israel, but with caveats) On balance you are probably correct to say "centre", but .... again, from the outside looking in .... hard to see where it is much of a move from the usual Democrat policies???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 On balance you are probably correct to say "centre", but .... again, from the outside looking in .... hard to see where it is much of a move from the usual Democrat policies???? Doesn't matter....the Sanders/Warren faithful want their say and pound of flesh, if only for appearances sake. So called "progressives" consider themselves to be the most enlightened wing of the Democratic party....they are still peeved that Obama sold them out so fast last time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted July 23, 2016 Report Share Posted July 23, 2016 Doesn't matter....the Sanders/Warren faithful want their say and pound of flesh, if only for appearances sake. So called "progressives" consider themselves to be the most enlightened wing of the Democratic party....they are still peeved that Obama sold them out so fast last time. Doesn't matter. Kaine hit it out of the ballpark. What a great speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 I love it.....Debbie Wasserman Schultz resigns amid DNC e-mail scandal: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3273404/Democratic-National-Committeewoman-says-party-clearing-path-Hillary-women-charge-want-way.html Republican voters had the balls to chuck the status quo and send all the usual stiffs packing despite RNC tricks, but Bernie could not get a fair shake from the Democrats. Clinton doesn't like competition....especially after what happened in 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 I love it.....Debbie Wasserman Schultz resigns amid DNC e-mail scandal: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3273404/Democratic-National-Committeewoman-says-party-clearing-path-Hillary-women-charge-want-way.html Republican voters had the balls to chuck the status quo and send all the usual stiffs packing despite RNC tricks, but Bernie could not get a fair shake from the Democrats. Clinton doesn't like competition....especially after what happened in 2008. And many thought the GOP convention was going to be a dumpster fire........The Democrats never cease to amaze......but I think all that have been following the travelling dog and pony shows shouldn't be the least surprised that the "fix was in" with regards to Sanders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 Sanders' supporters were cast in the same rebel mode as Trump's, but they got screwed by their own party. Indeed...the "fix was in". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 Sanders' supporters were cast in the same rebel mode as Trump's, but they got screwed by their own party. Indeed...the "fix was in". Trump needs to win the "Rust belt"........Sanders carried several of the "Rust belt" States......could make for an interesting election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 Trump needs to win the "Rust belt"........Sanders carried several of the "Rust belt" States......could make for an interesting election. Do you think at some point Trump might actually explain anything resembling solutions to any of the immense problems he has diagnosed? Or will America be so impressed by a serial adulterer who has declared bankruptcy multiple times and who's charged with fraud that they'll just elect him anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 Adultery and questionable financial dealings certainly were not a problem for President Bill Clinton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 Trump needs to win the "Rust belt"........Sanders carried several of the "Rust belt" States......could make for an interesting election. DNC is in damage control mode...including Obama. The timing of the leak is perfect. Now we know why Bernie was always so ANGRY ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 24, 2016 Report Share Posted July 24, 2016 Adultery and questionable financial dealings certainly were not a problem for President Bill Clinton. No? And here I thought you guys were the conservatives who cared about integrity and honor and God. Apparently not, huh. At least Clinton had proposals that weren't pie-in-the-sky bullshit. What's Trump got but generalized insults and scaremongering? Never mind when Trump has lied. When has he told the truth about himself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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