Guest Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 I think there are definitely times when an idea or a belief can be so strong it's grip on people is stronger than the other way around. I don't disagree, but the idea comes from people, is interpreted by people, and acted upon by people. If one blames the idea, not only is one excusing the people, but one is also blaming those who had the same idea, interpreted it differently and acted upon it differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 I understand you wish to defend religion by equating all religions as being essentially the same thus it's the individual loony nutter that is the issue...not the doctrine of this or that religion. I disagree. The sheer number of attacks world-wide by those claiming to be doing it for Allah far outnumbers all the others combined. Islam is the issue. That is my opinion. No I won't be swayed. In fact, I'm willing to bet the next major Islamic terrorist attack will happen within a week. Where is anybody's guess. Could be anywhere. One things for sure, it won't be their fault. It will be the ideas's fault. I can't see it, I'm afraid. It will be their fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Only because a human said so... That human died in the Bronze Age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 I understand you wish to defend religion by equating all religions as being essentially the same thus it's the individual loony nutter that is the issue...not the doctrine of this or that religion. I disagree. The sheer number of attacks world-wide by those claiming to be doing it for Allah far outnumbers all the others combined. Islam is the issue. That is my opinion. No I won't be swayed. In fact, I'm willing to bet the next major Islamic terrorist attack will happen within a week. Where is anybody's guess. Could be anywhere. I don't think that by blaming the proponents of a religion one is saying all religions are the same. The religions are the people. Islam is far worse than any other religion on the planet right now based simply on the fact that the percentage of its proponents that are nutcases far outstrips any of the other religions. Not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 That human died in the Bronze Age. Good job, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 I don't think that by blaming the proponents of a religion one is saying all religions are the same. The religions are the people. Islam is far worse than any other religion on the planet right now based simply on the fact that the percentage of its proponents that are nutcases far outstrips any of the other religions. Not the same. Good job, too. But his ideas LIVE on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) But his ideas LIVE on. Yes they do. Being interpreted and acted upon by people. Some good, some bad, some downright barbaric. ( Sorry, I mean unacceptable) I think I've flogged this horse as far as I can. It's not like we're going to change each other's minds. At least we can agree on what should happen to the barbaric ones. Edited December 5, 2015 by bcsapper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Yes they do. Being interpreted and acted upon by people. Some good, some bad, some downright barbaric. ( Sorry, I mean unacceptable) I think I've flogged this horse as far as I can. It's not like we're going to change each other's minds. At least we can agree on what should happen to the barbaric ones. So each individual Muslim that attacks somebody and shouts Allah U Akbar came up with that concept on their own? Surely you can't believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) I don't disagree, but the idea comes from people, is interpreted by people, and acted upon by people. Of course actions matter more than ideas, they're just things and like any other thing what you do with it or how you do it is what matters most. Muslims are simply holding us accountable for the manner by which our people acted in their region the last 50 - 60 years. We've chosen to interpret muslim actions as being a result of their ideas when they're more accurately a consequence of our own. If one blames the idea, not only is one excusing the people, but one is also blaming those who had the same idea, interpreted it differently and acted upon it differently. When one celebrates their idea they also excuse the manner by which it is acted on. When you're at the point where even consequences matter less than actions you're at the point where the ideas and beliefs have you - which is something the most strident enemies in both sides of this war and clash of civilizations are now both deeply guilty of. Of course it's entirely appropriate to blame terrorists for the awful things they do too. Edited December 5, 2015 by eyeball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 People are surprised when the Bible reads like the Quran. https://youtu.be/zEnWw_lH4tQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 People are surprised when the Bible reads like the Quran. https://youtu.be/zEnWw_lH4tQ So, why do people believe it's the quran and not the Bible - besides being told it's the quran? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 People are surprised when the Bible reads like the Quran. https://youtu.be/zEnWw_lH4tQ Only folks not familiar with either would mistake the two books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 So, why do people believe it's the quran and not the Bible - besides being told it's the quran? Jesus's message was simple and clear: Go and do likewise. (Luke 10:37) Nothing like it exists in the Quran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Jesus's message was simple and clear: Go and do likewise. (Luke 10:37) Nothing like it exists in the Quran. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh): “None of you have faith until you love for your neighbor what you love for yourself” (Sahih Muslim) “Whoever wishes to be delivered from the fire and to enter Paradise…should treat the people as he wishes to be treated.” (Sahih Muslim) “None of you truly believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself” (Forty Hadith-Nawawi) “None of you is a believer if he eats his full while his neighbour hasn’t anything.” (Musnad) “Do unto all men as you would wish to have done unto you; and reject for others what you would reject for yourselves.” (Abu Dawud) “Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you.” (Farewell Sermon) “There should be neither harming nor reciprocating harm.” (Ibn- Majah) Source Your familiarity with the Quran appears to be every bit as lacking as the familiarity demonstrated by the people in the video dialamah posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 Your familiarity with the Quran appears to be every bit as lacking as the familiarity demonstrated by the people in the video dialamah posted. That's all very nice, until you factor in abrogation. Or this: "The problem with the good teachings of Muhammad is that they are reserved for fellow Muslims. When the hadith says “None of you [truly] believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself,.” it is talking about the fellow Muslims. The brotherhood in Islam does not extend to everyone. The Quran (9:23) states that the believers should not take for friends and protectors (awlia) their fathers and brothers if they love Infidelity above Islam. In fact there are many verses that tell the Muslims to kill the unbelievers and be harsh to them. A clear example that Islam is not based on the Golden Rule is the verse (48:29): “Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other.” This is the perfect definition of fascism. There are many other verses that show the brotherhood in Islam is not universal. The non believers have no rights and should not be treated in the same way that Muslims are to be treated. The entire Quran is a breach of the Golden Rule. The Quran tells Muslims to slay the unbelievers wherever they find them (2:191), do not befriend them (3:28), fight them and show them harshness (9:123), smite their heads (47:4), etc. Are these verses compatible with the Golden Rule? Islam is the only doctrine that calls upon its believers to do evil to others for the simple fact that they are not believers." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 That's all very nice, until you factor in abrogation. The nice stuff is the abrogation. The ugly stuff, like your interpretation of things, is the aberration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 So, why do people believe it's the quran and not the Bible - besides being told it's the quran? Because the things being said in the bible are similar enough to what is said in the Quran that they are easily confused. For instance, killing their enemy's cattle and the woman and the babies, allowing none to live. Only folks not familiar with either would mistake the two books. That's all very nice, until you factor in abrogation. Is it only Islamic extremists and Western Islamaphobes who keep insisting that the extreme violence in the Quran is a required tenet of their faith. Ignoring what the majority of Muslims say, and the way in which the majority of them live in favor of your perverted view of Islam is just as admirable as the perverted interpretation of Islamic extremists. Fight terrorism and extremists, I'm all for that, but Muslims are not the enemy, nor is the Quran. It's the people who twist things so that they don't have to exibit any tolerance that are the problem Kinda like this guy: Islam is the issue. That is my opinion. No I won't be swayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2015 Report Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) Infidelophobe stabs innocent infidels in a tube station in London. Apparently he blamed them for the actions of other infidels. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/leytonstone-stabbing-man-attacked-with-machete-at-tube-station-a6762006.html Edited December 5, 2015 by bcsapper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 Because the things being said in the bible are similar enough to what is said in the Quran that they are easily confused. For instance, killing their enemy's cattle and the woman and the babies, allowing none to live. No! The question may be too tough for you, let me dumb it down a bit; To use your words, why would the people being interviewed be surprised when the Bible reads like the quran? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 The nice stuff is the abrogation. The ugly stuff, like your interpretation of things, is the aberration. Not my interpretation. Clearly, you don't know how abrogation is used, and why it's important when it comes to the Qu'ran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 Is it only Islamic extremists and Western Islamaphobes who keep insisting that the extreme violence in the Quran is a required tenet of their faith. Ignoring what the majority of Muslims say, and the way in which the majority of them live in favor of your perverted view of Islam is just as admirable as the perverted interpretation of Islamic extremists. Fight terrorism and extremists, I'm all for that, but Muslims are not the enemy, nor is the Quran. It's the people who twist things so that they don't have to exibit any tolerance that are the problem Kinda like this guy: The Qu'ran is indeed the enemy. When you have a book that literally millions of ppl believe is the direct word of God telling you to kill, you're damn straight it's the enemy. Stomping your feet along with Eyeball and other apologists will not change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 This didn't take long at all. http://news.yahoo.com/triple-suicide-attack-kills-27-lake-chad-island-141801619.html 27 dead. Re: the Quran and abrogation. The Quran 9:5 abrogates the most verses numerically. http://quran.com/9/5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 The Qu'ran is indeed the enemy. When you have a book that literally millions of ppl believe is the direct word of God telling you to kill, you're damn straight it's the enemy. Stomping your feet along with Eyeball and other apologists will not change that. Then why aren't these "millions" of people killing? Why is it that so many Muslims live peacefully with unbelievers and apostates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 Then why aren't these "millions" of people killing? Why is it that so many Muslims live peacefully with unbelievers and apostates? They are biding their time, waiting to be called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 They are biding their time, waiting to be called. Or they're living their lives, just like you or I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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