Argus Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: Surveys show integration improves generationally.....and yet we have discovered that the second generation is prone to home grown terrorism, and it is not because they have become loyal to there new country, because other surveys have stated that their first loyalty is to their religion, then family, then a distant 4 or 5 is country......Their number one loyalty is to other muslims within their religion sects. Surveys don't even show that, necessarily. When religion backs up cultural mores the resistence to integration can be very strong. I've used the example of Ultra-Orthodox Jews before. They haven't really integrated much in centuries. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 57 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said: Way back many posts ago, I did not express myself well. Isis is no more a feature of Islam than the IRA is Roman Catholic. Isis is a vehicle to make money and get power over people. The Syrian civil wars are more about power than religion. They are about both. A survey taken of Saudis found that most believed that what ISIS was doing was entirely in keeping with the Koran. And every statement made by ISIS or its supporters speaks to the religious element of why they are doing what they are doing. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Omni said: So I guess it's just the pointing of fingers at an entire culture due to the actions of those bad apples that is the problem. PEW research surveys show between 75% and 99% of Muslims polled in northern Africa, the middle east and western Asia wanted Sharia law. How is that a few bad apples? Now attitudes are, I'm sure, better in Canada, although again the Environics poll did not ask. The last poll which did so was one from the Macdonald Laurier Institute in 2011, which got a 62% affirmation from Canadian Muslims for some form of Sharia law about a decade ago. And North Africa, the middle east and western Asia is where tens of thousands of Muslims are coming from every year. Tthe Environics poll did say Muslims are growing more religious and more conservative so maybe even more want Sharia now. Edited May 6, 2017 by Argus "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Omni Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 1 minute ago, Argus said: PEW research surveys show between 75% and 99% of Muslims polled in northern Africa, the middle east and western Asia wanted Sharia law. How is that a few bad apples? So let them stay there, and let the ones who adhere to what the Environics survey indicate they want come here. And I don't think even you need a survey to tell you people would probably like to escape from a place where bombs are being dropped on them daily.
Argus Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Omni said: So let them stay there, and let the ones who adhere to what the Environics survey indicate they want come here. And I don't think even you need a survey to tell you people would probably like to escape from a place where bombs are being dropped on them daily. But they're not staying there. They're coming here, tens of thousands every year, and you and the other progressives absolutely refuse to even consider trying to screen out those attitudes. Edited May 6, 2017 by Argus "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Omni Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 Just now, Argus said: But they're not staying there. They're coming here, tens of thousands every year, and you and the other progressives absolutely refuse any kind of attempt to screen out those attitudes. Are you heading down the Kellie Lietch rabbit hole again?
Argus Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 Just now, Omni said: Are you heading down the Kellie Lietch rabbit hole again? Do you find pointing out the obvious offensive to your delusions? "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
dialamah Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 From Quora, an interesting overview of immigrants experiences and expectations in coming to Canada, in their own words - what they like, and what they dislike. https://www.quora.com/Whats-it-like-to-be-an-immigrant-coming-to-Canada
Omni Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, Argus said: Do you find pointing out the obvious offensive to your delusions? My offensive is to stand up to bigotry and xenophobia when I see it.
Argus Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 (edited) Found a poll asking American Muslims what they felt. I doubt if you polled, say, Italian or Chinese or Ukrainian immigrants to the US fifty or a hundred years back you'd have found any of them with the gall to think they ought to be governed under any law other than American. According to the just-released survey of Muslims, a majority (51%) agreed that “Muslims in America should have the choice of being governed according to shariah.” When that question was put to the broader U.S. population, the overwhelming majority held that shariah should not displace the U.S. Constitution (86% to 2%). More than half (51%) of U.S. Muslims polled also believe either that they should have the choice of American or shariah courts, or that they should have their own tribunals to apply shariah. Only 39% of those polled said that Muslims in the U.S. should be subject to American courts. Even more troubling, is the fact that nearly a quarter of the Muslims polled believed that, “It is legitimate to use violence to punish those who give offense to Islam by, for example, portraying the prophet Mohammed.” Nearly one-fifth of Muslim respondents said that the use of violence in the United States is justified in order to make shariah the law of the land in this country. https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/2015/06/23/nationwide-poll-of-us-muslims-shows-thousands-support-shariah-jihad/ Edited May 6, 2017 by Argus "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 1 minute ago, Omni said: My offensive is to stand up to bigotry and xenophobia when I see it. I stand up to stupidity where I see it. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Omni Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 Just now, Argus said: I stand up to stupidity where I see it. Except you seem to be confused as to the definitions.
Argus Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 Just now, Omni said: Except you seem to be confused as to the definitions. You too. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Omni Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 26 minutes ago, Argus said: You too. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shaikh-m-tawhidi/the-refugee-crisis-why-muslims-flee-from-islamic-governments_b_8931588.html "Some are of the view that Muslims in the west are mainly concerned about, “taking over” and establishing what is known as, “Sharia Law”. However, one would need to question why such Muslims would risk their lives to escape a country that is governed by Sharia law in an Islamic Government."
DogOnPorch Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 The Huffpuke would never fib. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Argus Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Omni said: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shaikh-m-tawhidi/the-refugee-crisis-why-muslims-flee-from-islamic-governments_b_8931588.html "Some are of the view that Muslims in the west are mainly concerned about, “taking over” and establishing what is known as, “Sharia Law”. However, one would need to question why such Muslims would risk their lives to escape a country that is governed by Sharia law in an Islamic Government." For the most part, Muslim immigrants are not trying to escape anything but poverty and a crappy, disorganized, often violent third world country with corrupt governments. Nor are they risking their lives to do so. The refugees are not so much risking their lives as moving away from the fighting to protect their lives. None of the ones we have risked their lives. The migrants going to Europe risked their lives on open boats, but then again, they were mostly young men looking for wealth and slutty western women. Edited May 6, 2017 by Argus "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
DogOnPorch Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 1 hour ago, eyeball said: No, just it's comeuppance will suffice. Not like you'll be wearing a burka anyways, eh? Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Omni Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 3 minutes ago, Argus said: For the most part, Muslim immigrants are not trying to escape anything but poverty and a crappy, disorganized, often violent third world country with corrupt governments. And so explain to us why they would seek to recreate that which they have risked their lives to escape.
DogOnPorch Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 3 minutes ago, Omni said: And so explain to us why they would seek to recreate that which they have risked their lives to escape. Until religion...all of it...is for Allah. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Argus Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, Omni said: And so explain to us why they would seek to recreate that which they have risked their lives to escape. The only Muslim governments run purely by Sharia law are Iran, Saudi Arabia and Sudan, I believe. All the others have incorporated elements of Sharia law into their criminal codes, but they're not pure Sharia. In every Muslim country which is not a "Muslim state" polls have shown that the populations would vote overwhelmingly to become a Muslim state if they were given that option. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Omni Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 7 minutes ago, Argus said: The only Muslim governments run purely by Sharia law are Iran, Saudi Arabia and Sudan, I believe. All the others have incorporated elements of Sharia law into their criminal codes, but they're not pure Sharia. In every Muslim country which is not a "Muslim state" polls have shown that the populations would vote overwhelmingly to become a Muslim state if they were given that option. Ah nope, there are quite a few more than that.
Omni Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 18 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Until religion...all of it...is for Allah. Do you get ALL of your ideas from youtube?
DogOnPorch Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, Omni said: Do you get ALL of your ideas from youtube? Your Quran, actually. And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah . And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do. https://quran.com/8/39 In black n' white. So the Imam preaching isn't a real Muslim? What's your issue with his video? Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Omni Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 14 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Your Quran, actually. And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah . And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do. https://quran.com/8/39 In black n' white. So the Imam preaching isn't a real Muslim? What's your issue with his video? Your bible, actually. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/dispatches/2015/01/22/yes-the-bible-does-say-to-kill-infidels/
Omni Posted May 6, 2017 Report Posted May 6, 2017 Luke 19:27: But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. As well as Matthew 10:34: Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. The Bible is a long, complex document with many conflicting interpretations. You can find text to justify practically anything, and people have. Mainstream Christianity focuses largely on the peaceful message of the New Testament, though obviously some today and throughout history have used it in much more violent ways.
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