Bonam Posted November 16, 2015 Author Report Posted November 16, 2015 France has a large population of disaffected Muslims living in ghettos If we want to take a lesson from France, that is where we should look. Canada also has a large, disaffected population living apart from most of the rest of us. But they're not Muslims, they're indigenous peoples. Key difference being Canada's indigenous people don't tend to do mass bombings and mass shootings. Quote
Guest Posted November 16, 2015 Report Posted November 16, 2015 Key difference being Canada's indigenous people don't tend to do mass bombings and mass shootings. No virgins... Quote
marcus Posted November 16, 2015 Report Posted November 16, 2015 By the way: Syrian passports found at Paris attacks scene were fakes made in Turkey Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
ReeferMadness Posted November 16, 2015 Report Posted November 16, 2015 Key difference being Canada's indigenous people don't tend to do mass bombings and mass shootings. And 20 years ago, I'm sure you could say the same thing about the Muslim community in France. This isn't about Islam, however much people want it to be. It's about populations of disaffected, disillusioned young people. Radical Islam just happens to offer a convenient cause for these people to link up with. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
marcus Posted November 16, 2015 Report Posted November 16, 2015 No virgins... C'mon buddy. That's a lazy add on to an ignorant comment. You're above that. Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 16, 2015 Report Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) And 20 years ago, I'm sure you could say the same thing about the Muslim community in France. Except for the bombings, as in 1995 (Paris Metro). France has been living with the Algerian War for over 50 years. Edited November 16, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Moonlight Graham Posted November 16, 2015 Report Posted November 16, 2015 I'd just like some proof to confirm the attack was by ISIS. There's nothing I've seen, other than ISIS claiming responsibility, which certainly isn't proof. Anybody could claim responsibility, and they've claim it for acts they weren't responsible for in the past. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Moonlight Graham Posted November 16, 2015 Report Posted November 16, 2015 ISIS targeted France for a number of reasons including the fact that French airplanes are bombing Syrian and Iraq positions and doing a little damage but not creating enough "collateral damage". So the French react: Just wondering, why do you think this? Do you have evidence of this, or is this a theory on your part? Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Guest Posted November 16, 2015 Report Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) C'mon buddy. That's a lazy add on to an ignorant comment. You're above that. I appreciate your comment, but I have no respect for them. None. Obviously my comment is aimed at those who believe in the concept of martyrdom. I cannot express my contempt enough. That was just a throwaway attempt. Edited November 16, 2015 by bcsapper Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 16, 2015 Report Posted November 16, 2015 I appreciate your comment, but I have no respect for them. None. Obviously my comment is aimed at those who believe in the concept of martyrdom. I cannot express my contempt enough. That was just a throwaway attempt. The comment was fine...and funny...same sentiment is expressed by many in western media. Fight the good fight. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Smallc Posted November 16, 2015 Report Posted November 16, 2015 The comment was fine...and funny Agreed. Quote
marcus Posted November 16, 2015 Report Posted November 16, 2015 I appreciate your comment, but I have no respect for them. None. Obviously my comment is aimed at those who believe in the concept of martyrdom. I cannot express my contempt enough. That was just a throwaway attempt. Suit yourself. In his reply to Reefer, Bonam called Muslims living in the ghettos in France as suicide bombers and mass shooters. You continued it. Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
ReeferMadness Posted November 16, 2015 Report Posted November 16, 2015 ISIS wants western governments to not accept refugees, argues Syrian-American political researcher Nader Atassi. ISIS believes they've set up this Islamic utopia, but all these Muslims are fleeing that Islamic utopia -- so that's kind of embarrassing to them. So they think that by provoking this kind of backlash, maybe it will lead people to sympathize with them more. Because then these people that are being welcomed in Europe will think, well, actually maybe we're not being welcomed in Europe. Maybe ISIS' world view is right, that there is this fundamental difference between our world and the West. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Smeelious Posted November 16, 2015 Report Posted November 16, 2015 ISIS wants western governments to not accept refugees, argues Syrian-American political researcher Nader Atassi. Generally this is the only viable theory for why they attacked Paris (IMO). Aside from anything else, I dislike this thread. So I leave it with this. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/ Quote
hitops Posted November 16, 2015 Report Posted November 16, 2015 ISIS wants western governments to not accept refugees, argues Syrian-American political researcher Nader Atassi. I'm sure that's true, but it is not a reason to therefore accept refugees. Quote
hitops Posted November 16, 2015 Report Posted November 16, 2015 I'd just like some proof to confirm the attack was by ISIS. There's nothing I've seen, other than ISIS claiming responsibility, which certainly isn't proof. Anybody could claim responsibility, and they've claim it for acts they weren't responsible for in the past. ISIS says they did it, nobody else is saying they did it, and western governments believe they did it. I'm not sure what else you would want. Quote
Moonlight Graham Posted November 16, 2015 Report Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) ISIS says they did it, nobody else is saying they did it, and western governments believe they did it. I'm not sure what else you would want. Links between the attackers and ISIS. I'd like to know the same reasons why western governments believe they did it. Edited November 16, 2015 by Moonlight Graham Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
hitops Posted November 16, 2015 Report Posted November 16, 2015 Links between the attackers and ISIS. All of the above are links. Quote
Moonlight Graham Posted November 16, 2015 Report Posted November 16, 2015 All of the above are links. What is? Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
hitops Posted November 16, 2015 Report Posted November 16, 2015 What is? The stuff in post #492 Quote
Smeelious Posted November 16, 2015 Report Posted November 16, 2015 Links between the attackers and ISIS. I'd like to know the same reasons why western governments believe they did it. If ISIS is claiming responsibility, does it matter? What would the alternate scenarios be? Quote
Moonlight Graham Posted November 16, 2015 Report Posted November 16, 2015 The stuff in post #492 Saying you did it or somebody did it isn't evidence. Where are these attackers from? Did they have communication with ISIS? What's on their cellphones? What's in their homes? What was found on their bodies [what's left of them]? Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
hitops Posted November 16, 2015 Report Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) Saying you did it or somebody did it isn't evidence. Where are these attackers from? Did they have communication with ISIS? What's on their cellphones? What's in their homes? What was found on their bodies [what's left of them]? You may not like the links that are evident now, and would like more, but nevertheless statements by various actors are part of the evidence. If you sit in court and a guy says he did it, nobody else does, and the police say he did it, that counts towards 'he did it'. Without exception, Islamic groups who carry out attacks, want you to know they carried them out. That is kind of their whole thing, the theater of it. If a non-ISIS (or affiliated) group did it, I agree ISIS might still try to take credit, however certainly the actual group that did it would also take credit. We don't have those competing claims here. Edited November 16, 2015 by hitops Quote
Smeelious Posted November 16, 2015 Report Posted November 16, 2015 You may not like the links that are evident now, and would like more, but nevertheless statements by various actors are part of the evidence. If you sit in court and a guy says he did it, and the police say he did it, that counts towards 'he did it'. Well in that case, people plead guilty for more reasons than being guilty. (Probably could rephrase to: Innocent people plead guilty all the time) In this case though...why would ISIS do that? I'm not sure there is a good answer. Quote
Moonlight Graham Posted November 16, 2015 Report Posted November 16, 2015 If ISIS is claiming responsibility, does it matter? What would the alternate scenarios be? The truth matters. If Iran claimed responsibility on 9/11 and the US went along with it, even though al-Qaeda did it, would it matter? Of course, it would change everything. One alternate scenario would be Islamist sympathizers acting on their own did it, with sympathies to groups like ISIS, but without ISIS in the middle-east having anything to do with it. If countries are going to send jets to bomb countries based on "who did it", the "who" better be correct. Why do the French think ISIS did it? Other than ISIS claiming they did (their word is meaningless). Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
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