Argus Posted November 3, 2015 Report Posted November 3, 2015 To say everyone 'on the left', whatever that means here, was aghast with criticism of China is completely incorrect. Many Canadians of every political hue have been steadfast in their criticism of China for decades. The current Chinese regime is a clear threat to gobal peace and stability. Nice revisionist history. I clearly recall the NDP and Liberals continually condemning Harper for not making nice with the Chinese. And if there were any doubters in their caucus they kept their lips zipped. And it's not like their MPs were tightly controlled like the Tories, right? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
SpankyMcFarland Posted November 3, 2015 Report Posted November 3, 2015 I'd argue the fact that the only actual response to the US's sail-by of China's little South China Sea artificial territory-building plan was the not-very-scary summoning of the US ambassador suggests that China, no matter how much bluster it may partake of, knows precisely where it stands in relation to the US's military and economic power. I fear we will see some abrupt changes in that regard over the next few decades. Quote ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
SpankyMcFarland Posted November 3, 2015 Report Posted November 3, 2015 (edited) Nice revisionist history. I clearly recall the NDP and Liberals continually condemning Harper for not making nice with the Chinese. And if there were any doubters in their caucus they kept their lips zipped. And it's not like their MPs were tightly controlled like the Tories, right? Canada is more than its MPs: http://www.canada.com/story.html?id=162b1509-8c58-4ac1-a2bf-9d1977cd820c Edited November 3, 2015 by SpankyMcFarland Quote ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
GostHacked Posted November 3, 2015 Report Posted November 3, 2015 You keep lamenting that Canada is friends with Israel. The only reason you give is your alleged concern with the human rights abuses you see them guilty of. At the same time you keep singing the praises of Iran and calling for us to befriend them, with zero regard to their horrific human rights abuses. And yet nothing bad is said about Saudi Arabia. Why? Quote
Argus Posted November 3, 2015 Report Posted November 3, 2015 And yet nothing bad is said about Saudi Arabia. Why? Didn't we already talk about the Saudis? I'm fully on board with severing diplomatic relations with them, even denying recognition of their legitimacy, and refusing to recognize any papers, including passports from there. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Guest Posted November 3, 2015 Report Posted November 3, 2015 Me too, I hate the damn country. A thoroughly reprehensible, pus filled boil of a place. Quote
GostHacked Posted November 3, 2015 Report Posted November 3, 2015 Didn't we already talk about the Saudis? I'm fully on board with severing diplomatic relations with them, even denying recognition of their legitimacy, and refusing to recognize any papers, including passports from there. I am on board with you there. However our government seems to think different in many ways regarding the Saudi's. No better than Iran really, but yet they are allies while another nation that looks much of the same is treated different. But I digress my apologies. Canada needs to think about Canada first. And not the member. Sorry for the puns that are now running through your brain. Israel claims itself all grown up and a nation of its own. No doubt there. But every time Netanyahu has gotten in front of the UN he seems to berate and belittle everyone with his rhetoric. Ties with Israel is not a bad thing, but we have enough problems at home and enough people being marginalized and such that until we get that resolved, we won't be any good at helping anyone else. The fact we still have this long standing issue with 'first nations' people in Canada tells us a lot. This Road of Tears story I've been hearing more and more of recently is a damn tragedy and a shame. Quote
marcus Posted November 3, 2015 Report Posted November 3, 2015 (edited) Why would I go to Iran? Iran is one of few untapped markets and the corporations are licking their chops at getting in there. There are 80 million people there, with a large number of highly educated people. There is also a large number of wealthy Iranians who are living abroad, who are gaining influence in sciences and in politics. Didn't the Liberals have two Iranian MP's in Ontario? We'll most likely be seeing more immigration from there as well. Deal Rekindles Business Interest in Iran Opening up the market will also push the traditionalists out of power in favour of a free market, led by a highly educated young population. Edited November 3, 2015 by marcus Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
jacee Posted November 27, 2015 Report Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) Didn't we already talk about the Saudis? I'm fully on board with severing diplomatic relations with them, even denying recognition of their legitimacy, and refusing to recognize any papers, including passports from there.Really?What about people who want to escape from there? Let's not confuse governments with people! . Edited November 27, 2015 by jacee Quote
drummindiver Posted November 27, 2015 Report Posted November 27, 2015 Yes it appears that this guy can get away with just about everything around here and by the way the only scummy country is the state of Israel and its murderous regime who indiscriminately murders defenseless innocent women and children. And Iran is no little it is a major regional power and soon to be a superpower and will teach these guys a lesson they will never forget. You complain that someone called Iran scummy, yet you feel calling Israel scummy acceptable? One of the lefties cried foul and asked for moderation, yet he didnt ask for you. How odd. Israel is a democratic society, allowing freedoms that most in the ME simply do not have. Israel is not perfect. Kennedy said democracy is not perfect, but we don't have to build walls to keep ppl in. In Israel, they have to build walls to keep ppl out, and for a reason. Quote
CITIZEN_2015 Posted November 27, 2015 Report Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) You complain that someone called Iran scummy, yet you feel calling Israel scummy acceptable? One of the lefties cried foul and asked for moderation, yet he didnt ask for you. How odd. Israel is a democratic society, allowing freedoms that most in the ME simply do not have. Israel is not perfect. Kennedy said democracy is not perfect, but we don't have to build walls to keep ppl in. In Israel, they have to build walls to keep ppl out, and for a reason. Please state the facts. I only said Israel is scummy only AFTER this strongly unconditionally pro-Israeli poster called Iran scummy (in response or retaliation) and he did so because the government in Iran is the only one who still stands up to Israel (and the west) and is still a real threat to Israel. Israel is far from perfect. It is a democracy only for its Jewish citizens but if you are a Palestinian not so especially if you live in occupied lands democracy means rubber or even live bullets sometimes and not to mention raids by Israeli army resulting in thousands of death of women and children (or those deaths don't matter to some because they are Arabs?). Jut saying. As for Iran, I agree with marcus that it is a gold mine and I say a future superpower and like Germany of Aryan origin and a former empire ....... and this article describes it well http://q13fox.com/2015/11/26/iran-offers-huge-economic-potential-for-the-u-s-can-it-deliver/ It’s been described as the Germany of the Middle East, with nearly 80 million people, an educated workforce, and a proud tradition of manufacturing.Throw in the world’s largest oil and gas reserves, and it’s easy to see why investors and international companies are getting very excited about Iran. Now to those of you jealous or wary about this future superpower or dislike to see a non-European nation fast becoming a superpower then suck it up. Edited November 27, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote
Big Guy Posted November 27, 2015 Author Report Posted November 27, 2015 .... In Israel, they have to build walls to keep ppl out, and for a reason. Might that reason be that they are Palestinians trying to get back to their homes? Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Argus Posted November 27, 2015 Report Posted November 27, 2015 Really? What about people who want to escape from there? Let's not confuse governments with people! . People come here as refugees without papers all the time, so that really isn't an issue. For more on the subject of Saudi Arabia see: http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/kamel-daoud-saudi-arabia-the-original-islamic-state Wahhabism, a messianic radicalism that arose in the 18th century, hopes to restore a fantasized caliphate centred on a desert, a sacred book and two holy sites, Mecca and Medina. Born in massacre and blood, it manifests itself in a surreal relationship with women, a prohibition against non-Muslims treading on sacred territory and ferocious religious laws. That translates into an obsessive hatred of imagery and representation and therefore art, but also of the body, nakedness and freedom. Saudi Arabia is a Daesh that has made it. The West’s denial regarding Saudi Arabia is striking: it salutes the theocracy as its ally but pretends not to notice that it is the world’s chief ideological sponsor of Islamist culture. The younger generations of radicals in the so-called Arab world were not born jihadists. They were suckled in the bosom of Fatwa Valley, a kind of Islamist Vatican with a vast industry that produces theologians, religious laws, books and aggressive editorial policies and media campaigns. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 27, 2015 Report Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) Please state the facts. I only said Israel is scummy only AFTER this strongly unconditionally pro-Israeli poster called Iran scummy (in response or retaliation) and he did so because the government in Iran is the only one who still stands up to Israel (and the west) and is still a real threat to Israel. Do you realize how petulant that sounds? You called Israel scummy in "retaliation" -- against me! I am not an Israeli! I am not Jewish! You are outraged I called Iran scummy because of its brutal and heartless theocratic government and support for international terrorism, yet you go ahead and call Israel scummy! Talk about hypocrisy! Also, where on earth do you get the idea Iran is 'the only one' who stands up to Israel? Half the middle east is still in a state of war against Israel and few governments miss an opportunity to constantly attack them by words if not deeds. As was pointed out there were six anti-Israeli resolutions pushed in the UN last week, by the same human rights committee which utterly ignores Syrian human rights abuses. Israel is far from perfect. It is a democracy only for its Jewish citizens Yet again you are wrong. Israel is a democracy for all its citizens, be they Jewish or Arab Muslims. Iran, on the other hand, is not a democracy of any kind, has no independent court system, no independent media, and a habit of torturing prisoners to death. but if you are a Palestinian not so especially if you live in occupied lands Both Gaza and the West Bank are nominally independent in that they can elect local governments. Both have done so, electing Fatah in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza. Neither has any independent media or courts, and both local representative governments routinely practice extra-judicial execution of suspected 'traitors' as well as torture in their prisons. As for Iran, I agree with marcus that it is a gold mine and I say a future superpower and like Germany of Aryan origin and a former empire ....... and this article describes it well A future superpower like Germany? You mean like Nazi Germany, don't you? It has some of the same purity laws, and the same brutal dictatorial style of government. I question those who cry crocodile tears over the human rights abuses of Israel and then show themselves eager to embrace the vicious regime of Iran. It makes me think their problem with Israel has nothing to do with any interest or care about human rights abuses at all, that perhaps it has to do with all those Jews there. Edited November 27, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted November 27, 2015 Report Posted November 27, 2015 Might that reason be that they are Palestinians trying to get back to their homes? No, it's to keep out Palestinians who want to blow up Jews. That was the inspiration for the wall, and it did its job fairly well, putting an end to the routine suicide attacks that were taking place back then. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
dialamah Posted November 27, 2015 Report Posted November 27, 2015 Might that reason be that they are Palestinians trying to get back to their homes? Oh come on, the Palestinians have no right to that land - somebody else decided it belonged to the Isrealis. Quote
Argus Posted November 27, 2015 Report Posted November 27, 2015 Oh come on, the Palestinians have no right to that land - somebody else decided it belonged to the Isrealis. About 70 years ago, yes. Almost none of the Palestinians alive today were alive then. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
drummindiver Posted November 27, 2015 Report Posted November 27, 2015 Might that reason be that they are Palestinians trying to get back to their homes? The UN concocted this. The Jews tried to appease, the arabs tried to erase. The Jews,1948, reaching out to work with the arabs. "We will do everything in our power to maintain peace, and establish a cooperation gainful to both [Jews and Arabs]. It is now, here and now, from Jerusalem itself, that a call must go out to the Arab nations to join forces with Jewry and the destined Jewish State and work shoulder to shoulder for our common good, for the peace and progress of sovereign equals'. "Had the Arabs accepted the 1947 UN resolution, not a single Palestinian would have become a refugee and an independent Arab state would now exist beside Israel." The Arabs, 1948 [british] Government of Palestine fear that strife in Palestine will be greatly intensified when the Mandate is terminated, and that the international status of the United Nations Commission will mean little or nothing to the Arabs in Palestine, to whom the killing of Jews now transcends all other considerations Quote
drummindiver Posted November 27, 2015 Report Posted November 27, 2015 Oh come on, the Palestinians have no right to that land - somebody else decided it belonged to the Isrealis. Yes, the useless dessert and swamp were not settled As soon as jewish backs and know how turned it into usefull land, all of a sudden there was a clamour for it. Quote
CITIZEN_2015 Posted November 28, 2015 Report Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) Do you realize how petulant that sounds? You called Israel scummy in "retaliation" -- against me! I am not an Israeli! I am not Jewish! You are outraged I called Iran scummy because of its brutal and heartless theocratic government and support for international terrorism, yet you go ahead and call Israel scummy! Talk about hypocrisy! No, you are pro Israel and anti-Iran (likely because you think it is a Muslim country but you are wrong there) and I am pro-Iran and anti-Israel I never said or thought you are Israeli but it did cross my mind you may be Jewish. All that said then we were on equal grounds and based on above you called Iran scummy (not the government but it was the country of Iran that you insulted) and I retaliated by calling your favorite country Israel scummy for its murderous actions against defenseless people. Also, where on earth do you get the idea Iran is 'the only one' who stands up to Israel? Half the middle east is still in a state of war against Israel and few governments miss an opportunity to constantly attack them by words if not deeds. As was pointed out there were six anti-Israeli resolutions pushed in the UN last week, by the same human rights committee which utterly ignores Syrian human rights abuses. Okay I rephrase. Iran is the only country who remains a serious military threat to Israel. You know well half the middle east is not a match for Israeli military (Israelis threw them out in different directions every time they fought a war). Only Iran who has always been a major military power and fast becoming self sufficient in military hardware (unlike the Arab neighbors who have to import everything they need) and a non-Arab nation highly educated and with vast resources and advanced industries is able to soon match that of Israel being showered with money thanks to strong Jewish support and lobby over the past 7 decades. Yet again you are wrong. Israel is a democracy for all its citizens, be they Jewish or Arab Muslims. Iran, on the other hand, is not a democracy of any kind, has no independent court system, no independent media, and a habit of torturing prisoners to death. Not so. Israel is brutal yo its non-Jewish citizens. Then attack the right entity not the country as you did. A future superpower like Germany? You mean like Nazi Germany, don't you? It has some of the same purity laws, and the same brutal dictatorial style of government. I question those who cry crocodile tears over the human rights abuses of Israel and then show themselves eager to embrace the vicious regime of Iran. It makes me think their problem with Israel has nothing to do with any interest or care about human rights abuses at all, that perhaps it has to do with all those Jews there. Ha ha Nazi Germany!!!!!, that would be a serious threat to Israel wouldn't it? Yes I am not surprised. You guys always accuse those opposing brutality of Israelis as racist or anti-Jewish so that no one dares to criticize them. Well that won't work anymore at least not on me. Edited November 28, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote
Argus Posted November 28, 2015 Report Posted November 28, 2015 No, you are pro Israel and anti-Iran (likely because you think it is a Muslim country but you are wrong there) What? I am wrong in thinking the Islamic Republic of Iran which is about 95% Muslim is a Muslim country? and I am pro-Iran and anti-Israel Well then, you have nothing to say with regard to human rights in Israel given you are 'pro-Iran' and given Iran has far, far far worse human rights abuses. I retaliated by calling your favorite country Israel scummy for its murderous actions against defenseless people. Israel is hardly my favorite country. I am sitting in my favorite country. After Canada would probably come the other members of the Five Eyes, then the Nordic countries. Okay I rephrase. Iran is the only country who remains a serious military threat to Israel. And I've pointed out to you before that given there is no trade and no borders between the two, the only reason Iran constantly threatens Israel is because Iran is run by Muslim fanatics who hate Jews. Your belief that Iran is outraged at the human rights abuses in Israel is laughable given the brutality of the Iranian government towards its own people. Not so. Israel is brutal yo its non-Jewish citizens. It's non-Jewish citizens vote, are represented in parliament, and generally have the same rights as Jewish Israelis. Yes I am not surprised. You guys always accuse those opposing brutality of Israelis as racist or anti-Jewish so that no one dares to criticize them. Well that won't work anymore at least not on me. While of course your real concern is human rights -- though you admire Iran despite Iran's human rights violations. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
jacee Posted November 28, 2015 Report Posted November 28, 2015 People come here as refugees without papers all the time, so that really isn't an issue. For more on the subject of Saudi Arabia see: ... The Wests denial regarding Saudi Arabia is striking: it salutes the theocracy as its ally but pretends not to notice that it is the worlds chief ideological sponsor of Islamist culture. Ya ... Why is that that "the west" ie U.S. allies itself with Saudi Arabia? . Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 28, 2015 Report Posted November 28, 2015 The United States is not "the west"...Saudi Arabia is a U.S. ally the same as Canada...in support of national interests. Same reason Canada has a free trade agreement with Israel, not Iran. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Argus Posted November 28, 2015 Report Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) The United States is not "the west"...Saudi Arabia is a U.S. ally the same as Canada...in support of national interests. Same reason Canada has a free trade agreement with Israel, not Iran. Nonsense. The Saudis are not your allies. They don't even like you. Everything about their religion and culture screams intolerance for everything about your religion and culture. They are the fountain from which the Islamic extremism flows, an extremism which has killed many Americans and will kill many more. They spend billions every year spreading their message of hate across the world. Al Quaeda is born of Saudi wahabi extremism. So is ISIS. So is Boko Haram. So are the Taliban. Money flows from Saudi 'charities' into extremist fundamentalist groups, and from Saudi princes into terrorists groups and to support Islamist political organizations throughout the Muslim world. They make agreeable mouth noises but generally refuse to cooperate with American efforts at either tracing the money or arresting or inhibiting those suspected by American and western intelligence agencies. You supported them because of oil. Now you support them because you are convinced that any replacement of the current regime will be even worse. You simply don't know what to do about them and their continued financing of their extremist fundamentalist views around the world. Edited November 29, 2015 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 29, 2015 Report Posted November 29, 2015 Nonsense. The Saudis are not your allies. They don't even like you. You supported them because of oil. Now you support them because you are convinced that any replacement of the current regime will be even worse. You simply don't know what to do about them and their continued financing of their extremist fundamentalist views around the world. Real oil matters...not the bitumen sludge pipeline Obama rejected for another "ally". The Saudis buy American made kit just like the Canadians and Israelis do, and don't whine about the costs nearly as much. Also, there is lots of anti-'Murican rhetoric to be found in Canada, right here in this forum. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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