Canada Relations With Israel

[Big Guy]

It will be interesting to see how the relations between Canada and Nertanyahu will change as the difference between Trudeau and Netanyahu become more pronounced.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/10/30/israel-expects-the-style-will-change-under-trudeau.html

After the election, Netanyahu phoned Trudeau. They had a conversation. The Netanyahu people describe it as , "telephone call affirming the friendship of the two countries — even if it won’t always be shouted from Canada’s rooftops."

Netanyahu and Harper had been on a "Stephen" and "Bibi" level and the far right Conservative Harper supported all of the moves made by far right Netanyahu - go figure? But things have changed.

Rafael Barak, Israel’s ambassador to Canada, said the call from Netanyahu took place last Friday, and left his country assured that relations between Canada and the Jewish state will remain strong after the defeat of the Conservatives on Oct. 19. But that is the description that Israel wants to hear - and it comes from that side. That is what the Netanyahu folks wants Canadians to hear - but:

From Canadian Trudeau spokesperson Kate Purchase, characterized the conversation as a “very positive call.”

Trudeau also “explained there would be a shift in tone but Canada would continue to be a friend of Israel’s,” she added.

During the federal election campaign, Trudeau also said he would re-establish diplomatic relations with Iran, which Israel views as an existential threat.

I suggest that this is just the beginning of a new approach from Canada. The next step will be Canada re-establishing our embassy in Iran and beginning a new relationship with that nation. Already the major players have accepted the fact that Iran is the key to any resolution to the problems in the Middle East by inviting it to the latest negotiations between the USA and Russia.

It is only a matter of time until Canada washes its hands of the Netanyahu directed assimilation of Palestinian properties and continued suppression and murder of the Palestinian minority.

It is about time!

Edited November 1, 2015 by Big Guy

[Argus]

You keep lamenting that Canada is friends with Israel. The only reason you give is your alleged concern with the human rights abuses you see them guilty of.

At the same time you keep singing the praises of Iran and calling for us to befriend them, with zero regard to their horrific human rights abuses.

It is difficult, given there is no perceivable advantage to Canada in abandoning Israel while embracing Iran, not to consider what other reasons might cause people of a certain mentality to continually post demands that Canada "wash its hands of Israel".

In any event, Canada will never besmirch its reputation by befriending Iran, the place which executes more people per capita than anywhere on earth, and the most children of any country on earth, the place where torture and rape in its innumerable security prisons are legendary. Freedom House rates freedom around the world, with 1 being best, and 7 being worst. It gives Israel a 1.5. Iran gets a 6. No one who had any concern with human rights abuses would repeatedly call upon Canada to to embrace them.

[SpankyMcFarland]

I hope we have good relations with Israel and everyone else out there. Let's go back to being benign, friendly and vague. No need to make enemies unnecessarily like Steve did.

Edited November 1, 2015 by SpankyMcFarland

[Big Guy]

In September of 2012, the Harper government cut ties with Iran and closed the embassy:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-closes-embassy-in-iran-expels-iranian-diplomats-1.1166509

I predict that within a year, the Canadian government of Justin Trudeau will re-establish the embassies and seek economic cooperation with Iran.

[Argus]

I hope we have good relations with Israel and everyone else out there. Let's go back to being benign, friendly and vague. No need to make enemies unnecessarily like Steve did.

You mean no need to stand up for what's right?

[SpankyMcFarland]

You keep lamenting that Canada is friends with Israel. The only reason you give is your alleged concern with the human rights abuses you see them guilty of.

At the same time you keep singing the praises of Iran and calling for us to befriend them, with zero regard to their horrific human rights abuses.

It is difficult, given there is no perceivable advantage to Canada in abandoning Israel while embracing Iran, not to consider what other reasons might cause people of a certain mentality to continually post demands that Canada "wash its hands of Israel".

In any event, Canada will never besmirch its reputation by befriending Iran, the place which executes more people per capita than anywhere on earth, and the most children of any country on earth, the place where torture and rape in its innumerable security prisons are legendary. Freedom House rates freedom around the world, with 1 being best, and 7 being worst. It gives Israel a 1.5. Iran gets a 6. No one who had any concern with human rights abuses would repeatedly call upon Canada to to embrace them.

You want to get tough with China, too? Lots of executions there, you know. All sorts of interesting things go on in China.

[dre]

Canada should have diplomatic relations with both Iran and Israel even though they are international pariahs with serious human rights issues. A policy of zero-engagement is not going to do anyone any good at all.

[Argus]

You want to get tough with China, too? Lots of executions there, you know. All sorts of interesting things go on in China.

I'm not calling on us to build ties with Iran and abandon ties with a democratic country. i was quite happy when Harper was treating the Chinese with disdain, though of course, everyone on the Left we aghast, horrified we were offending the noble Chinese.

Shows how much concern there is among zealots of the Left with all their crocodile tears about human rights abuses.

[Argus]

Canada should have diplomatic relations with both Iran and Israel even though they are international pariahs with serious human rights issues. A policy of zero-engagement is not going to do anyone any good at all.

For what reason should we have any relationship with a scummy little country like Iran? The only thing the mullahs have is oil and dead bodies, and we need neither.

[SpankyMcFarland]

You mean no need to stand up for what's right?

I mean understanding that 'moral clarity' is often used to disguise bigotry of one sort or another.

[SpankyMcFarland]

For what reason should we have any relationship with a scummy little country like Iran? The only thing the mullahs have is oil and dead bodies, and we need neither.

Moderators? Scummy?

Whatever about that, Iran is not little, sparsely populated or a recent phenomenon.

[Argus]

I mean understanding that 'moral clarity' is often used to disguise bigotry of one sort or another.

The main 'moral clarity' that Harper brought to our middle east relationship was that we stopped abstaining from the dozens of anti-Israel resolutions the Islamic block brings up in the general assembly all year long. They bring up pretty much the same one-sided resolutions every year, and the cowardly countries abstain because, well, even though they'll pass, nobody is going to pay any attention to them. Harper actually joined the US, UK, and a few others in voting no.

Is that what you mean by bigotry?

[SpankyMcFarland]

I'm not calling on us to build ties with Iran and abandon ties with a democratic country. i was quite happy when Harper was treating the Chinese with disdain, though of course, everyone on the Left we aghast, horrified we were offending the noble Chinese.

Shows how much concern there is among zealots of the Left with all their crocodile tears about human rights abuses.

And what happened to Harper's disdain, exactly? Did he get tough with the Chinese? No. He's moral when he thinks he can push people around.

[Argus]

Moderators? Scummy?

Whatever about that, Iran is not little, sparsely populated or a recent phenomenon.

Scummy is a compliment, given their human rights record. You're offended on Iran's behalf? Do you admire them and want Canada to befriend them too? They are a nothing country as far as Canada is concerned. We have no trade with them and we need have nothing to do with them.

[SpankyMcFarland]

The main 'moral clarity' that Harper brought to our middle east relationship was that we stopped abstaining from the dozens of anti-Israel resolutions the Islamic block brings up in the general assembly all year long. They bring up pretty much the same one-sided resolutions every year, and the cowardly countries abstain because, well, even though they'll pass, nobody is going to pay any attention to them. Harper actually joined the US, UK, and a few others in voting no.

Is that what you mean by bigotry?

Listen, referring to any country as 'scummy' is inappropriate.

[Argus]

And what happened to Harper's disdain, exactly? Did he get tough with the Chinese? No. He's moral when he thinks he can push people around.

Harper's ideology is pragmatism. It is one of his strengths, and one of his weaknesses. Given the world recession, and the continual screams of the opposition on China's behalf, to say nothing of the business community, he gave in and joined with the opposition in singing their praises.

[SpankyMcFarland]

Scummy is a compliment, given their human rights record. You're offended on Iran's behalf? Do you admire them and want Canada to befriend them too? They are a nothing country as far as Canada is concerned. We have no trade with them and we need have nothing to do with them.

Iran is an ancient civilization that is much more than its oppressive government.

[Argus]

Listen, referring to any country as 'scummy' is inappropriate.

Why? North Korea is pretty scummy too.

[SpankyMcFarland]

Harper's ideology is pragmatism. It is one of his strengths, and one of his weaknesses. Given the world recession, and the continual screams of the opposition on China's behalf, to say nothing of the business community, he gave in and joined with the opposition in singing their praises.

So the moral clarity disappears then.

[Argus]

Iran is an ancient civilization that is much more than its oppressive government.

Thanks for the history lesson. What Iran was hundreds of years ago is of no concern to me whatever. I am concerned with what Iran IS.

[Argus]

So the moral clarity disappears then.

When needs must. i see no need with regard to Iran.

[SpankyMcFarland]

Why? North Korea is pretty scummy too.

Really, it's pretty childish to talk like that about countries. They are far more than their rulers.

[SpankyMcFarland]

And Iran is certainly not little. That is flat out wrong.

Edited November 1, 2015 by SpankyMcFarland

[Argus]

Really, it's pretty childish to talk like that about countries. They are far more than their rulers.

Not insofar as how they interact with the rest of the world, they're not. There might be some nice people in Iran but that's irrelevant. There are also a lot of religious fruitloops, and they've been in charge there for over thirty years now with no sign of that ending.

[Argus]

And Iran is certainly not little. That is flat out wrong.

Would you prefer a minor country of no strength, interest or importance to us?

I would prefer us to have no relationship with any of these brutal autocratic governments. I can see a need with regard to the giant ones like China and Russia, but why should we give any legitimacy to the rest?

Edited November 1, 2015 by Argus