Topaz Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 What I've read from the following the low incomer will get the help they need the most of some middle-incomers will also but it goes down hill from there for others, which make senses, helping the people who really need the help. http://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/topstories/how-the-liberal-tax-policies-will-affect-your-pocket-book/ar-BBmkl5v?ocid=spartandhp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrypenguin Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) This does not take into account things like payroll taxes and TFSA's. Nor does it help in any way for couples without children, like me. Then again I've gotten the message clear. Shit on those who make decent coin and tax us to help the middle class. HOW DARE WE MAKE DECENT MONEY? It's not fair to everyone else. Edited October 23, 2015 by angrypenguin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeelious Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 ...What about income splitting? That seems missing from the article. (outside of seniors, which is the part that isn't changing anyway?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 The family income splitting is clearly stated in the article and presumably is included in the gains/losses reported. Income splitting for seniors is not effected since Trudeau said he was keeping it all along contra CPC rumours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) This does not take into account things like payroll taxes and TFSA's. The $10,000 TFSA contribution limit only applied to a VERY small percentage of the population. It was a crap policy decision aimed only at a privileged few. Nor does it help in any way for couples without children, like me. You're not a priority, sorry. Fertility rates are an absolutely essential part of public planning and they're an enormous financial burden to families. It's a large reason why immigration is essential to maintaining our economy. Pick your poison. Make having children more affordable or increase the intake of immigrants. DARE WE MAKE DECENT MONEY? It's not fair to everyone else. What are you whining about, exactly? Unless you're making +200/y, you're more than likely better off. If you are making that much, good for you! You're still making great money and the tax increase doesn't all of the sudden make that not the case. Edited October 23, 2015 by Moonbox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 You're not a priority, sorry. Fertility rates are an absolutely essential part of public planning and they're an enormous financial burden to families. It's a large reason why immigration is essential to maintaining our economy. Pick your poison. Make having children more affordable or increase the intake of immigrants. What are you whining about, exactly? Unless you're making +200/y, you're more than likely better off. If you are making that much, good for you! You're still making great money and the tax increase doesn't all of the sudden make that not the case. Exactly. Angry penguin says he's making almost 200k (plus whatever his partner makes) and doesn't have kids & their associated costs. He's living a great economic life with likely close to zero financial burdens compared to most people. Stop complaining and enjoy your well-earned money. There's many people in this country with actual real problems. Making $192k instead of $194k will not affect anyone's quality of life in any way whatsoever. Then again I've gotten the message clear. Shit on those who make decent coin and tax us to help the middle class. HOW DARE WE MAKE DECENT MONEY? It's not fair to everyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 This does not take into account things like payroll taxes and TFSA's. Nor does it help in any way for couples without children, like me. Then again I've gotten the message clear. Shit on those who make decent coin and tax us to help the middle class. HOW DARE WE MAKE DECENT MONEY? It's not fair to everyone else. AP, I get about $75 tax break on JTs plan, am single with no kids at home and 'lower' middle class on his 'middle-class' designation - it seems I always get missed in these tax-break schemes the various governments come up with. Yet somehow I manage to carry on, and know that this time at least, my kids will be helped along with many other people who struggle considerably more than I do. To me, this is a much better outcome than not being included in tax breaks, but knowing those who make three figures are included. It seems to me that someone making close to $200,000 a year has little room to complain about losing a couple tax breaks, especially when the loss of such goes to help the ones who make much, much less money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrypenguin Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 It seems to me that someone making close to $200,000 a year has little room to complain about losing a couple tax breaks, especially when the loss of such goes to help the ones who make much, much less money. I get that my struggles are less due to my income. However, the idea that it "should" go to someone else is what irritates me. I worked hard for my money, and I'm sure others did too, but the mentality that someone else deserves it more than me is what bugs me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 I get that my struggles are less due to my income. However, the idea that it "should" go to someone else is what irritates me. I worked hard for my money, and I'm sure others did too, but the mentality that someone else deserves it more than me is what bugs me. Your struggles are 'less'??? If you make 200k and you have no children, you shouldn't struggle at all. Unless you think it's a struggle to make a decision whether you should buy a yacht or travel South America for a month. That's not a struggle. As someone else said, your $2000 more in taxes is peanuts compared to your takeaway but for someone making $30k, an extra $1000 is a lot. You really don't understand why they deserve the tax break more than you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 You really don't understand why they deserve the tax break more than you? The funny thing is is that high income people and their whining is not going to win friends and influence people. I'm very glad for the proposed tax changes if only because I think it is better for Canada as a whole. Cut my income taxes by a $1,000 and it's just going to go to my vacation fund and be spent outside of Canada. Or it will go to my TFSA and end up being invested outside of Canada (at least right now). But get $1,000 into the hands of a single parent or a couple making less than $100,000 per year? That is going to get spent and then multiplied and recirculated in the economy. And no more bother with the UCCB being taxable while the CTB was still non-taxable. Why the CPC had to complicate the system like this is beyond me (other than they seem to speak about red tape while adding to it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitops Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) The $10,000 TFSA contribution limit only applied to a VERY small percentage of the population. It was a crap policy decision aimed only at a privileged few. It is available to anyone. You're not a priority, sorry. Fertility rates are an absolutely essential part of public planning and they're an enormous financial burden to families. It's a large reason why immigration is essential to maintaining our economy. Pick your poison. Make having children more affordable or increase the intake of immigrants. Neither are a poison, but that does give us an insight into how you view people. What are you whining about, exactly? Unless you're making +200/y, you're more than likely better off. If you are making that much, good for you! You're still making great money and the tax increase doesn't all of the sudden make that not the case. There is no end to this argument. Everyone always thinks that people making more than them should not complain, and no matter how much they pay, they will always be accused no not paying 'their fair share'. 'Fair share' is a concept with no endpoint. Your struggles are 'less'??? If you make 200k and you have no children, you shouldn't struggle at all. Unless you think it's a struggle to make a decision whether you should buy a yacht or travel South America for a month. That's not a struggle. As someone else said, your $2000 more in taxes is peanuts compared to your takeaway but for someone making $30k, an extra $1000 is a lot. You really don't understand why they deserve the tax break more than you? Low earning does not = deserving. What infantile thinking. There are plenty of low income people who will use it well, and plenty who will just blow it in ways destructive to self and others. You have absolutely no clue who 'deserves' what, as if that can even be defined. This does not take into account things like payroll taxes and TFSA's. Nor does it help in any way for couples without children, like me. Then again I've gotten the message clear. Shit on those who make decent coin and tax us to help the middle class. HOW DARE WE MAKE DECENT MONEY? It's not fair to everyone else. Nobody is going to understand what you are saying, unless they have gone to the effort and grind to achieve what you have. You have to understand the mindset - you did not get what you have due to your own efforts and sacrifices (sacrifices they did not make), a magic fairy just dropped it in your lap and you are 'lucky'. Hence, you owe others. Edited October 23, 2015 by hitops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrypenguin Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) Your struggles are 'less'??? If you make 200k and you have no children, you shouldn't struggle at all. Unless you think it's a struggle to make a decision whether you should buy a yacht or travel South America for a month. That's not a struggle. As someone else said, your $2000 more in taxes is peanuts compared to your takeaway but for someone making $30k, an extra $1000 is a lot. You really don't understand why they deserve the tax break more than you? Your assuming your cost of living is the same as mine. I'd like to buy a detached house, with a two car garage, in the suburbs. That will run me around $800,000. I don't eat out, I don't go shopping for anything I don't need to, neither does my wife. $200K for both people (my wife is a contract teacher right now), is nothing in the GTA. Please don't tell me I don't struggle. There is no end to this argument. Everyone always thinks that people making more than them should not complain, and no matter how much they pay, they will always be accused no not paying 'their fair share'. Whole societies have been destroyed by this thinking. Agreed. Anyone making less than someone else complains and says they're entitled to their money, and the person making more isn't entitled to it. I know people who easily clear $400,000. I don't think for a second their money should be in my pocket. Edited October 23, 2015 by angrypenguin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 Your assuming your cost of living is the same as mine. I'd like to buy a detached house, with a two car garage, in the suburbs. That will run me around $800,000. I don't eat out, I don't go shopping for anything I don't need to, neither does my wife. $200K for both people (my wife is a contract teacher right now), is nothing in the GTA. Please don't tell me I don't struggle. Well, if you are two people making $200,000 (one say $150,000 and the other $50,000) then what are you complaining about? The new 33% rate will be on income above $200,000. The new 20.5% rate (down from 22%) is for income between $44k and $89k. As such, both you and your wife are likely looking at an income tax cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrypenguin Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) Well, if you are two people making $200,000 (one say $150,000 and the other $50,000) then what are you complaining about? The new 33% rate will be on income above $200,000. The new 20.5% rate (down from 22%) is for income between $44k and $89k. As such, both you and your wife are likely looking at an income tax cut. My wife doesn't make nearly that much, so she won't benefit from that. Why does the above $200k tax increase bug me? Because it's against my values and beliefs. Also, actually no, I will be out several thousand.. TFSA back to $5500 in 2016, payroll tax hike, carbon taxes, and who knows what other taxes. Edited October 23, 2015 by angrypenguin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 My wife doesn't make nearly that much, so she won't benefit from that. Why does the above $200k tax increase bug me? Because it's against my values and beliefs. Also, actually no, I will be out several thousand.. TFSA back to $5500 in 2016, payroll tax hike, carbon taxes, and who knows what other taxes. Nonsense. So you're probably looking at a tax cut of $670 or so. Meanwhile. the TFSA rollback will effect you going forward but it is not as big as deal for us young ones - the $10,000 was not indexed whereas the $5,500 limit will be, so over the long run things will be about the same (at least according to Preet Banerjee) [i have not checked the math here so I am taking it at face value for now]. As for the payroll "hike" - we will see. We're talking something like $70 so whatevers. Carbon tax - well, if he brings it in like the BC Liberals then it will be revenue neutral - we'll get some income tax cuts to offset the increased costs. So whatevers..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrypenguin Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) Nonsense. So you're probably looking at a tax cut of $670 or so. Meanwhile. the TFSA rollback will effect you going forward but it is not as big as deal for us young ones - the $10,000 was not indexed whereas the $5,500 limit will be, so over the long run things will be about the same (at least according to Preet Banerjee) [i have not checked the math here so I am taking it at face value for now]. As for the payroll "hike" - we will see. We're talking something like $70 so whatevers. Carbon tax - well, if he brings it in like the BC Liberals then it will be revenue neutral - we'll get some income tax cuts to offset the increased costs. So whatevers..... As I already told you, the tax cut will not affect me at all.The top income there is what, $89k for the middle class tax bracket? The gains I've made in my TFSA I'm happy with. $10K now, even if it's not indexed, makes a material difference. The payroll tax hike will easily cost me more than $2k a year. And I don't say "Whatevers" to money, even if it is a dollar. If anything wrt the carbon tax, the income tax cuts will again be to the middle class. You know, I've noticed my own spending behavior changing since the election. I tip less, I'll buy the cheaper version of X, and I've decided I am no longer donating to charity. See what happens when taxes go up? Many of the small business owners that I know have already indicating they will not have raises this year (ahead of December and ahead of the payroll tax). So the middle class will save a few $ with Trudeau's tax changes, but yet lose out on the big picture. So many people think so narrow. Edited October 23, 2015 by angrypenguin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitops Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) Agreed. Anyone making less than someone else complains and says they're entitled to their money, and the person making more isn't entitled to it. I know people who easily clear $400,000. I don't think for a second their money should be in my pocket. The fact that you do not feel entitled to their money, is because you have the mindset that led you to be successful in the first place. It is no accident that success and not feeling like others owe you, tend to go together. This is the tragic part about the victim, entitlement mentality. Those who hold it (like most in this thread) have a put a psychological cap on their own potential. It is a self-defeating, toxic worldview. Edited October 23, 2015 by hitops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 The payroll tax hike will easily cost me more than $2k a year. You mean the EI rate cut? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitops Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 Ok using the couple making $200,000 example; What if is paid entirely in dividends, $100,000 each? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrypenguin Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 Ok using the couple making $200,000 example; What if is paid entirely in dividends, $100,000 each? I'm confused Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitops Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 I'm confused Wasn't the example about $200,000 between a couple? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) The fact that you do not feel entitled to their money, is because you have the mindset that led you to be successful in the first place. It is no accident that success and not feeling like others owe you, tend to go together. This is the tragic part about the victim, entitlement mentality. Those who hold it (like most in this thread) have a put a psychological cap on their own potential. It is a self-defeating, toxic worldview. Yet, apparently he does feel that "others" owe him, given his constant complaining that he won't be getting the tax cuts he got before and that somebody else - not even him - might be paying a little bit more. He also wants an $800,000 home and it's darn hard to put money together for that whilst investing and socking money into TFSAs --- who exactly is feeling 'entitled' and wants to claim 'victimhood' on this thread? The people saying "hey, if my taxes are going to help those in need, I"m ok with with", or the ones saying "Yeah, I make a good wage, and it's not fair that my taxes go to help those that make less than me." You know, it really annoys me that for so many years the taxes I paid went to support tax breaks for rich, entitled Conservatives! I'm so glad that's over! Edited October 23, 2015 by dialamah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitops Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) Yet, apparently he does feel that "others" owe him, given his constant complaining that he won't be getting the tax cuts he got before and that somebody else - not even him - might be paying a little bit more. He also wants an $800,000 home and it's darn hard to put money together for that whilst investing and socking money into TFSAs --- who exactly is feeling 'entitled' and wants to claim 'victimhood' on this thread? The people saying "hey, if my taxes are going to help those in need, I"m ok with with", or the ones saying "Yeah, I make a good wage, and it's not fair that my taxes go to help those that make less than me." You know, it really annoys me that for so many years the taxes I paid went to support tax breaks for rich, entitled Conservatives! I'm so glad that's over! There is difference between feeling entitled to your own earned money, vs that of somebody else. Feeling like other people owe you based on the fact that they have more than you, is a psychologically malignant way to go through life. Edited October 23, 2015 by hitops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 How about being entitled to operating in a society without paying for its maintenance and management? What's that entitlement called? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitops Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) How about being entitled to operating in a society without paying for its maintenance and management? What's that entitlement called? Ok that would be the poorest income brackets, many natives peoples etc. What is your point? Edited October 23, 2015 by hitops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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