On Guard for Thee Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 I would if it weren't just a figment of your imagination. EVERYONE has a frosty relationship with Obama! And hasn't hurt us that I can see. So the best you can come up with is an imaginary reputation damage, Obama not loving us, and that the other two parties voted them in contempt? How exactly has that hurt me or the country? The other two parties didn't get to vote on the contempt or your buddy Harper would have been kicked out of the house, and possibly into jail. Quote
Guest Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 You are giving too much credit to leaders that really haven't proved they could accomplish something like this. Also, with the way the current polls are going, the Liberals have Zero incentive to change the voting system. Now...If by some miracle....The Liberals and the Conservatives are tied in seats...Lizzy May could become the Electoral Hero we Deserve. Another thing...before the voting system gets changed we will likely have another FPTP election as a referendum on changing the voting system anyway. Especially with the seat numbers being so close. It's already in the Liberal platform with implementation dates. Same with NDP and Green. I think it will get done. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 Top half for sure. Top half for sure. But definitely not number 1 as was suggested. Quote
Guest Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 It is a way to to misuse the system, while it may be ok for you to use it to upset the Cons, what if it was used in other ways.....to discredit or swing votes to say the Green party..... FPTP swings votes away from the Green party by design. Harper merged the right wing parties specifically to game the system. Why is that different than voters working together on the left? Again, I'd ultimately love to see a voting system that simply matched seats in the house to the actual proportion of votes received. If we had that right now, there would be no need for strategic voting, but we don't have a fair electoral system. The only federal party currently opposed to a fair vote tally is the CPC. This time around it makes sense for the two-thirds majority to vote with their heads for the strongest non-con in their riding to prevent a false, FPTP, BS majority and the voting system can be fixed. Hopefully, by the next federal election we can vote with our hearts. Quote
ReeferMadness Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 After watching Harper and his cronies game the system for 10 years, it's just hilarious to watch his supporters whine about strategic voting. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
waldo Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 He muzzled scientists, he showed he doesn't care about the environment. Phhht. No government ever lets its employees contradict its policies. No, he showed he doesn't care about CO2 emissions. Not the same thing. good on ya for admitting the anti-science nature of Harper Conservative policies! Yabut... Harper has made all these past commitments to reduce emission levels, he states Canada is 'on board' in working towards a binding emission reduction agreement at the upcoming Paris COP meetings... why he's even gone out "on a limb" to accept the G7 pledge to have Canada stop using fossil-fuels by 2100! Are you saying Harper doesn't care - or he's purposely lying to Canadians and the world community? . Quote
waldo Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) Anyone But Conservative (ABC) - strategic voting recommendations - YMMV All 338 Election Districts Recommendations --- (provided methodology & criteria)... choose your province and note your electoral district (riding): the 'strategic voting' party recommendation is shown as a linked reference; selecting the link provides the reasoning behind the recommendation in chart format --- a Comment line item within the chart may suggest a recent change/update in the recommendation with additional information available at the Blog link, one that may reflect upon, for example, new polling information. exploding head alert: the web site is created and being maintained by 'Calgary IT Manager', Hisham Abdel-Rahman alternatively... VoteTogether alternatively... anyonebutharper.net. (on edit: added alternative 'anyonebutharper') Edited October 11, 2015 by waldo Quote
Smallc Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 I certainly wasn't voting Green. I did vote Liberal today though. Quote
Wilber Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 I don't see how holding you nose and voting for the least worst is any different from strategic voting. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
ToadBrother Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 I don't see how holding you nose and voting for the least worst is any different from strategic voting. It is the same thing. The primary objectors to strategic voting appear to be Tory supporters who realize that strategic voting is killing Tory vote efficiency, and is likely to see the Tories lose. The Tories would be much better served if all the NDP supporters would vote NDP and give the Tories the vote split they need. Quote
drummindiver Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 Number one as was stated. http://www.oecd.org/ Quote
Argus Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 Scientists are not merely employees, and this has been a sustained campaign to prevent scientists from reporting on a number of important issues because, somehow, science that opposes short term political gain must be wrong. Scientists ARE merely employees, and no organization, public or private, wants them publicly arguing with the people in charge of that organization. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
ToadBrother Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 Scientists ARE merely employees, and no organization, public or private, wants them publicly arguing with the people in charge of that organization. Science only works on a free exchange of ideas. Forcing scientists to stop doing that for short term political Gain is not only an attack on science, but denying the voter, who is the real boss, of the benefits of research. But we get it, on top of poor people and "Lefties", you hate researchers. Quote
waldo Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 Scientists ARE merely employees, and no organization, public or private, wants them publicly arguing with the people in charge of that organization. it has little or nothing to do with "arguing"... Harper tightened the screws to prevent federal scientists from engaging the public/media directly - it got so ridiculous, media representatives had to contact U.S. scientists who had been co-authors on Canadian author led papers. you earlier made a statement that spoke to (I paraphrase), "scientists going against legislated policy"... to which I asked (I paraphrase), "why is legislated policy going against (prevailing) science"? Didn't get an answer to that - go figure. Quote
BC_chick Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 Anyone But Conservative (ABC) - strategic voting recommendations - YMMV [...] exploding head alert: the web site is created and being maintained by 'Calgary IT Manager', Hisham Abdel-Rahman alternatively... VoteTogether Yeah, I changed my vote from Green to NDP once the NDP candidate in my riding started losing support to the LPC candidate. The CPC candidate's support remained the same, but the gap narrowed between him and the NDP candidate. It was really exciting to see a choice other than the usual LPC/CPC for once but the saddest part for me about the slip in the NDP support is that the NDP were the only party that talked about electoral reform. For a fleeting moment I thought I might see the day where there is no need for strategic voting. That's by far the worst loss in all this for me. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
dialamah Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 It was really exciting to see a choice other than the usual LPC/CPC for once but the saddest part for me about the slip in the NDP support is that the NDP were the only party that talked about electoral reform. For a fleeting moment I thought I might see the day where there is no need for strategic voting. That's by far the worst loss in all this for me. https://www.liberal.ca/realchange/electoral-reform/?shownew=1 " Within 18 months of forming government, we will introduce legislation to enact electoral reform." Quote
ReeferMadness Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 Yeah, I changed my vote from Green to NDP once the NDP candidate in my riding started losing support to the LPC candidate. The CPC candidate's support remained the same, but the gap narrowed between him and the NDP candidate. It was really exciting to see a choice other than the usual LPC/CPC for once but the saddest part for me about the slip in the NDP support is that the NDP were the only party that talked about electoral reform. For a fleeting moment I thought I might see the day where there is no need for strategic voting. That's by far the worst loss in all this for me. I'm still hopeful that a Liberal minority, supported by the NDP will be able to be convinced to implement PR. The Liberals committed to reviewing the voting system. Let's not give up on this. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
ReeferMadness Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 https://www.liberal.ca/realchange/electoral-reform/?shownew=1 " Within 18 months of forming government, we will introduce legislation to enact electoral reform." Yeah - but with Trudeau, voting reform might be alternative vote - which is not proportional representation. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Argus Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 Science only works on a free exchange of ideas. Forcing scientists to stop doing that for short term political Gain is not only an attack on science, but denying the voter, who is the real boss, of the benefits of research. But we get it, on top of poor people and "Lefties", you hate researchers. No, at the top of my list, I hate stupid people. A scientist is hired to do research and provide his or her organization with specific information. There are a handful of public organizations where such information is routinely posted to the public, but in most cases this does not happen. The information is 'owned' by whoever funded the research, and it's for them to say what, if anything is done with it, and how they incorporate that information into policy. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 Yeah - but with Trudeau, voting reform might be alternative vote - which is not proportional representation. What does that matter if it benefits the Liberal Party? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
ToadBrother Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 What does that matter if it benefits the Liberal Party? Since it is unlikely there will be a Liberal majority, is say AV has little chance. That being said there are ways to make instant runoff systems more proportional, including STV, but also changes to the runoff rules that reduce or eliminate some of the potential abuses of pure IRV. Quote
BC_chick Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 I'm still hopeful that a Liberal minority, supported by the NDP will be able to be convinced to implement PR. The Liberals committed to reviewing the voting system. Let's not give up on this. As the dominant centre-left party, the LPC would be the ones with the most to lose if we had PR. A lot of their support would bleed to the other centre-left parties. I agree with Tom Mulcair that Justin Trudeau only cares about Justin Trudeau so while I commend your optimism I don't see that ever happening. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
dialamah Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 Yeah - but with Trudeau, voting reform might be alternative vote - which is not proportional representation. Maybe, but the platform says a committee will be convened to study all forms of reform, including PR, and make recommendations. So, PR isn't out of the question. I hope electoral reform happens, and I hope we're never again in a situation where 30% of the population overrides the other 70%. Quote
eyeball Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 No, at the top of my list, I hate stupid people. A scientist is hired to do research and provide his or her organization with specific information. There are a handful of public organizations where such information is routinely posted to the public, but in most cases this does not happen. The information is 'owned' by whoever funded the research, and it's for them to say what, if anything is done with it, and how they incorporate that information into policy. Information funded by the public is owned by the public. Are you trying to argue that the government owns the public's funds? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
ToadBrother Posted October 10, 2015 Report Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) As the dominant centre-left party, the LPC would be the ones with the most to lose if we had PR. A lot of their support would bleed to the other centre-left parties. I agree with Tom Mulcair that Justin Trudeau only cares about Justin Trudeau so while I commend your optimism I don't see that ever happening. And what, Mulcasir doesn't care about his own fortunes? And the narrative that the Liberals would die seems very self serving to me, more than a bit an exercise in wishful thinking. The Liberals mastered campaigning from the Left decades before the CCF even existed. If the NDP return to historical levels of support, the best they can hope in an alternative electoral system is that they play king maker. I see no reason to see centrist voters bleeding to the NDP. And the political right will adapt too, with social conservatives and Libertarians potentially breaking off to form potential partners for a Tory government. II can well imagine Canada having a right center and left center party like Germany with smaller parties ready to serve as coalition partners. I just don't think the Left center party will be the NDP. Edited October 10, 2015 by ToadBrother Quote
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