Army Guy Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 So what does the meaning of Old Stock Canadian mean....I mean there are a few here that suggests it might be a racist term, with a racist meaning....to mean White, anglo saxon males..... like it was something to be embarrassed about ....when Canada has always been a diverse culture, made up of white, Black, Native american, Inuit peoples, french and english and many more cultures..... All sharing the basically same image of what it is like to be Canadian. a people who love Hockey, beer, pogy checks, who are polite to a fault, and millions more....all of us share many Canadian cultured items, like the maple leaf on our flag, maple syrup on fluffy pancakes, poutine, the list goes on.....we also share a very diverse history, some good moments, some shameful moments....is it wrong to wear that pride like a coat....I think not....it is who we where....a people that built this country from nothing.... I get the fact that as a nation we must grow.....we must accept that the world is becoming global, and more diverse.....but i also do not want to forget our past, our history.......and how we got here.....I m proud to say I m old Canadian stock, and if you immigrate to Canada then you should be able to accept our culture as is....become part of the team.....and while we don't really care about what religion you practice, it should not interfere with anyone rights or lives, i want to celebrate Christmas, shit i want to call it christmas, easter, i should not have to change the name because someone else feels offended.......i don't feel offended if you celebrate your religious holidays.....it just seems that every time we turn around we have to sacrifice something in order not to hurt someones feelings..... I think that every Immigrant that chooses Canada to live either temporarily, or for the rest of their lives, should adapt to our Canadian values, culture, and join us around the camp fire to sing Kumbaya....This whole thing about getting a women to reveal her face is blown out of proportion, could this women not take her oath in private, with perhaps another women.....do we really need a law that states you have to uncover your face.....how does she handle being asked by a police office to uncover her face, or face the teller at a bank.....or does she avoid driving, going to the bank, is she allowed to do these things.... Does asking all these questions make me a racists.....or non conformist.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
BC_chick Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 That's all nice, Army Guy, but you know what.... I came to Canada as a little girl. My parents taught us from day one that we are in Canada now and this is our new country and we adopt the culture. I call it Christmas, I call it Easter. I married an old-stock Canadian and I have a mixed old-stock daughter. You know what all that means though is the day comes when the line is drawn in the sand? Do you think anyone is going to look over my decades old history where I learned both our official languages, where I lived in our 3 biggest cities and learned as much as possible about the history of MY country? Do you think they're going to give a crap that I know nothing about my ancestral country? The country we fled to get away from customs we are not agreement with? No, someone had to draw an arbitrary line and Harper drew the line that if you're not born here, you're not the same as those who are. That's a slap in the face to so many of us that do come here and adopt the culture as our own and take pride in our country. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
cybercoma Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) Sorry about your second-class citizenship, BC_chick. Hopefully we can make all citizens equal again someday. Edited September 18, 2015 by cybercoma Quote
ReeferMadness Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 What a nice thing to say, Reefermadness, thank you. It hurt me to no end, to be honest, when C-24 came about. I've always been so proud of my country, but that was a huge slap in the face. It's nice to see 'old-stock' Canadians disagree with these divisions. As for Haper's personal views, I agree. I think if he could find a way to loophole to deport First Nations, he would. C24 is an absolutely abhorrent piece of legislation. I wonder how many Harper supporters are actually affected by it and don't even realize it. There are a lot of people who are dual citizens despite being born in Canada. I'm still proud of my country but I've become decidedly less proud over the past decade. I honestly thought we were better than this. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Accountability Now Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 No, someone had to draw an arbitrary line and Harper drew the line that if you're not born here, you're not the same as those who are. The line is against terrorists, spies or those who commit treason. As long as you don't do that then you are on the same side of the line as everyone else. Being on that side of the line is being 'old stock' in my mind. Quote
Topaz Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 My late dad, was 12th generation, came to Canada in 1650s but mother side not until late 1800 or early 1900s, so someone should have asked the PM how old is old. His relatives are from New Brunswick then moved to Toronto, i think late 1800s or early 1900s. Quote
BC_chick Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) The line is against terrorists, spies or those who commit treason. As long as you don't do that then you are on the same side of the line as everyone else. Being on that side of the line is being 'old stock' in my mind. I appreciate the effort but "terrorist" is an arbitrary term so it doesn't mean much. Especially when you're born in that part of world. Edited September 18, 2015 by BC_chick Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
BC_chick Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 K, I think I hear a knock at my door. I'm gonna stop commenting on this thread now. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
Army Guy Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 That's all nice, Army Guy, but you know what.... I came to Canada as a little girl. My parents taught us from day one that we are in Canada now and this is our new country and we adopt the culture. I call it Christmas, I call it Easter. I married an old-stock Canadian and I have a mixed old-stock daughter. You know what all that means though is the day comes when the line is drawn in the sand? Do you think anyone is going to look over my decades old history where I learned both our official languages, where I lived in our 3 biggest cities and learned as much as possible about the history of MY country? Do you think they're going to give a crap that I know nothing about my ancestral country? The country we fled to get away from customs we are not agreement with? No, someone had to draw an arbitrary line and Harper drew the line that if you're not born here, you're not the same as those who are. That's a slap in the face to so many of us that do come here and adopt the culture as our own and take pride in our country. It's a word, a way of classifying something, it's done all the time with almost every subject, it in my opinion does not take away anything , it does not mean your any less of a canadian than i am. It does pigeon hole how long you've been Canadian but that's it, and it is done in every thing in life.... I think you perceive a line in the sand, when really it is only a word of classification......i don't think that was Harpers intent, to suggest that you were any less of a canadian than the rest of us....perhaps he should have left it out altogether. My point in my rant was a lot of Canadians are concerned with the influence of immigrants have on our nation, and how our customs and culture are being eroded, as if we need to bend to their will and wants, instead of them excepting who we are.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Canada_First Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 Again c24 strip citizenship from dual citizens who are convicted if treason or terrorism related charges. This isn't a bad thing. Quote
Accountability Now Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 I appreciate the effort but "terrorist" is an arbitrary term so it doesn't mean much. Actually I don't think it really is. I can concretely say that I have not committed a terrorist activity or anything close to it. Nothing arbitrary about it. Quote
Peter F Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 Yeah, but what you say doesn't really matter. It's what CSIS and the RCMP say in hidden court chambers far from public eyes that matters. Quote A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
Wilber Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 Sorry about your second-class citizenship, BC_chick. Hopefully we can make all citizens equal again someday. Dual citizens aren't equal, they enjoy the citizenship of another country as well as this one. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Peter F Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 Indeed, they can be tried for treason in either of them. Imprisoned too! I'm completely at a loss why stripping citizenship from criminals is a useful thing. Quote A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
Wilber Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 Indeed, they can be tried for treason in either of them. Imprisoned too! I'm completely at a loss why stripping citizenship from criminals is a useful thing. Well if dual citizenship is such a bad thing, why are people so upset about the possibility of giving it up. Life is full of choices, dual citizens have choices other citizens don't. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
ReeferMadness Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) Back to the OP, here is what Frank Graves of Ekos believes that Harper meant: Frank Graves, president of EKOS Research, says that kind of divisional tactic has been used successfully in the past."It's part of the deliberate strategy to sort Harper's constituency from the rest of the electorate," Graves told CBC Montreal's Daybreak. "It creates a sense of us versus others." Graves describes Harper's comment as a "dog whistle": something meant to be heard by a target audience, but misheard or ignored by the rest. Dog whistle politics. Edited September 18, 2015 by ReeferMadness Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Peter F Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) Well if dual citizenship is such a bad thing, why are people so upset about the possibility of giving it up. Life is full of choices, dual citizens have choices other citizens don't. To clarify, I do not think dual citizenship is a bad thing. or even triple or quadruple citizenship. Have as many citizenships as you want. Make a hobby of gathering citizenships if you like. I just don't get why stripping criminals of citizenship solves anything when we have prisons and work-houses for multiple citizenship holding criminals. Edited September 18, 2015 by Peter F Quote A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
The_Squid Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) I think it shows the Harper (CPC) mindset that if you aren't like them, then you aren't a "real Canadian". It is very much appealing to the base. Small town, rural areas, scared of change or anything that might be different. I don't think it was intentional, because this is not the way to expand that 30% support that you are already getting from the "old stock". Edited to add: Maybe he did mean to say it.... but he didn't mean for it to get the play that it has gotten... strategic mistake perhaps.....? Edited September 18, 2015 by The_Squid Quote
capricorn Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) Oops. Wrong thread. Edited September 18, 2015 by capricorn Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
eyeball Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) My point in my rant was a lot of Canadians are concerned with the influence of immigrants have on our nation, and how our customs and culture are being eroded, as if we need to bend to their will and wants, instead of them excepting who we are.... A lot of Canadians are concerned that our foreign policies are what's causing so many people to want to leave their regions and that our foreign policies are corroding our customs and culture not to mention the world faster than anything else. Edited September 18, 2015 by eyeball Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Wilber Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 To clarify, I do not think dual citizenship is a bad thing. or even triple or quadruple citizenship. Have as many citizenships as you want. Make a hobby of gathering citizenships if you like. I just don't get why stripping criminals of citizenship solves anything when we have prisons and work-houses for multiple citizenship holding criminals. I'm neutral on the issue of dual citizenship but I don't think it is unreasonable for countries to put some conditions on it. Mainly, if you choose to maintain citizenship in another country, we reserve the right to fire your ass to that country if you are convicted of certain crimes against this one. I say against this country, not just any old crimes committed in this country. Of course, the devil is in the details. If I was asking another country to grant me their citizenship and I wanted to maintain my existing citizenship, I wouldn't have a problem with that. Why bother with the expense of putting them in prisons in this country when they have another one to live in; I think work houses went out sometime in the 19th century. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Canada_First Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 I'm neutral on the issue of dual citizenship but I don't think it is unreasonable for countries to put some conditions on it. Mainly, if you choose to maintain citizenship in another country, we reserve the right to fire your ass to that country if you are convicted of certain crimes against this one. I say against this country, not just any old crimes committed in this country. Of course, the devil is in the details. If I was asking another country to grant me their citizenship and I wanted to maintain my existing citizenship, I wouldn't have a problem with that. Why bother with the expense of putting them in prisons in this country when they have another one to live in; I think work houses went out sometime in the 19th century. 100 percent agree. I'm trying to figure out what is so terrible about stripping a dual citizen of Canadian citizenship if they're convicted of treason, espionage or terrorism. I don't get it. Quote
Bob Macadoo Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) Edited to add: Maybe he did mean to say it.... but he didn't mean for it to get the play that it has gotten... strategic mistake perhaps.....?I'm sure he unknowingly said it.......one of the few points in the debate where he took a big swing, but left the ribs open.You don't say that unless you meant "It's so simple even those people agree." Edited September 18, 2015 by Bob Macadoo Quote
Machjo Posted September 18, 2015 Report Posted September 18, 2015 My first guess was that he understood 'old stock Canadians' similarly to how the B&B Commission defined 'the two founding races' (i.e. 'Canadians of British and French origin'). I'm happy he clarified his meaning though so as to correct any misunderstanding. Quote With friends like Zionists, what Jew needs enemies? With friends like Islamists, what Muslim needs enemies?
Argus Posted September 19, 2015 Report Posted September 19, 2015 Back to the OP, here is what Frank Graves of Ekos believes that Harper meant: Dog whistle politics. Graves has donated money to the Liberal party every year since 2003.... Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
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