Why I Won't Vote NDP

[blueblood]

With a little correcting on spelling and grammer, that statement could make the perfect epitaph on our collective tombstone in the not-too-distant future.

Off topic and totally false oil industry funded propaganda! The real story on history of life on Earth has been that...as the Sun has slowly increased energy output over time, Earth's atmosphere has been decreasing the concentration of greenhouse gases through carbon sequestration. Photosynthesizing plants creating oxygen and putting carbon into the soil caused some dramatic cooling events that caused many ice ages over 500 million years ago. As the Sun increased in intensity, so did carbon sequestration. The exceptions where CO2 rose during periods of high volcanism were also the times of mass extinctions of life! In recent Earth history, CO2 levels haven't exceeded 400 ppm for between 2.5 and 16 million years...depending on who's rock analysis you want to accept....still a pretty damn long time!

More recently, during the Pleistocene Era, Earth has spent the bulk of it's time in ice ages separated by short interglacial periods averaging about 10,000 years where CO2 would go as high as 300 ppm. And this last interglacial was the perfect time for us to discover agriculture and burning forests.....and Earth has been working overtime just to keep CO2 under that 300 ppm cap.....and then we came up with the Industrial Revolution! And for more than a century carbon sequestration hasn't been able to keep up with us, and we've climbed above 300 and steadily rose to 400 and we're still raising CO2 levels at ever increasing annual rates, which is an indicator that we have busted the cycle this time and CO2 will keep on rising or we'll go extinct! Because it will take decades for partial effects of what we're doing to show their impacts, and many centuries before the full results of anthropegenic climate change land on this world. Most of the heat is still trapped in deep ocean layers that will slowly warm the upper ocean layers and atmosphere and acidify the oceans.

So, thanks oil industry fans! We may already be past the point of no return and not be able to do a damn thing about the crisis, and yet we have the right wing suicide squads who want to kill off life on Earth a little faster. Why stop now!

As for the spelling and grammar idgaf. Deal with it.

As for the rest, co2 levels were significantly higher and lower at early points in earths history. The earth has a way of balancing itself out. The earth is still here...

heres an idea, you put your money is and live in a cabin in the woods without power and practice what you preach and come back and tell us how that works for you. Because thats essentially what you guys are advocating canada do in spite of countries such as china, india, and the usa keep on rolling.

Theres no crisis.

[Smallc]

There's also the reality that if we have to, we'll find a way to sequester carbon.

[Argus]

I guess eventually you run out of excuses for deficits.

The Ontario Liberals never have, and it's looking like Trudeau is adopting their platform wholesale.

[Argus]

I'm less fussed about how conservative he is than how honest he is.

I don't think that Harper would be there if he conducted himself with honesty and integrity.

Harper's honesty and integrity are leagues ahead of his last four predecessors.

[Argus]

All brad wall does is balance budgets and is far more likeable than harper is. S

I don't care how likeable the pm is. I want him to be competent. Wall seems okay but he hasn't had to cope with the problems Harper has, nor the economic issues Harper has faced.

[eyeball]

Harper's honesty and integrity are leagues ahead of his last four predecessors.

[Argus]

He hasn't been caught taking kickbacks like Mulroney and Chretien, has he? He didn't deliberately exempt a foreign tax shelter country from new rules because his own companies used it, did he? Has he moved government jobs to his riding from Ottawa like Chretien? You get all self-righteous about piddling little things involving the Tories, then shrug and yawn about huge costly things the others did.

[eyeball]

If what you say is true then why didn't Harper arrest the criminals who preceded him? I can't think of anything more corrupt than a public servant who refuse to prosecute other criminal public servants.

So when did Harper know his predecessors were acting illegally and why didn't he take action?

[Vancouver King]

He hasn't been caught taking kickbacks like Mulroney and Chretien, has he? He didn't deliberately exempt a foreign tax shelter country from new rules because his own companies used it, did he? Has he moved government jobs to his riding from Ottawa like Chretien? You get all self-righteous about piddling little things involving the Tories, then shrug and yawn about huge costly things the others did.

Yes, it is easy to document Conservative and Liberal corruption. We are fortunate to have a third option, the NDP.

[Argus]

Yes, it is easy to document Conservative and Liberal corruption. We are fortunate to have a third option, the NDP.

Who are an entirely different and superior species of selfless and saintly individuals who want only to provide their learned guidance to the mass of unwashed and ignorant normals out there. Why, they practically walk on water, and would never consider for a moment profiting from their jobs or diverting government funds in some way which would help their election prospects...

[ReeferMadness]

Harper's honesty and integrity are leagues ahead of his last four predecessors.

Just keep telling yourself that. It probably works better with heavy doses of pharmaceuticals. You can be the last one to believe it.

[eyeball]

Who are an entirely different and superior species of selfless and saintly individuals who want only to provide their learned guidance to the mass of unwashed and ignorant normals out there. Why, they practically walk on water, and would never consider for a moment profiting from their jobs or diverting government funds in some way which would help their election prospects...

So you consider yourself one of the few abnormals out there?

[ReeferMadness]

The planet is and will be fine.

You're absolutely right. The planet is fine and it will be. Whether it will still support 7 billion humans, however, is very much an open question. But that's OK - don't worry yourself over that. Just turn up the seat warmer in your SUV.

[WIP]

I haven't switched to right wing conservatism. I'm simply mpore weary of hard core socialists like you and the damaging principals you stand for.

I started out as a leftwing idealist in my teens, mostly moved politics aside in my busy middle years when apparent good times (less wars, improving economies) made standard liberal/conservative mainstream thinking look on track....and then along came the new century, and it seems like the facade that had papered over a lot of festering unsolved problems started floating back to the surface again. I've discovered few people actually re-evaluate long-held core beliefs and double down on them demanding more of the same. I can give you reasons why I'm a radical eco-socialist today. It doesn't matter to me whether people I know (let alone online) agree with me or understand, I can make a case that goes beyond 'socialism is bad, global warming is false, capitalism is good' and other similar slogans!

[Derek 2.0]

And there you go, both the Liberals and Conservatives are calling the NDP on Mulcair's magic spending promises:

Liberals claim there's a $28-billion gap between Mulcair's promises of new spending and his pledge that an NDP government would be able to balance all its budgets over a four-year term.

Conservative candidate for Calgary Midnapore Jason Kenney says there's at least an $8-billion gap and that's just in the first year of an NDP government. Kenney made his remarks at press conference at the National Press Theatre in Ottawa on Sunday.

Mulcair's response:

Mulcair has promised to eventually release a full costing of the NDP's platform, detailing where he'd get the money to pay for all his commitments.

Mulcair either has a magic money tree or he'll have to do a combination of further cuts and/or tax increases........I fully expect this is where Mulcair's national carbon tax will be made known.......

[WIP]

Maybe because only irrational idiots "invest" in technology that cannot provide the power we need. If CO2 is a problem we can build dams and nukes. If dams and nukes are not acceptable then I guess you don't care about CO2.

China is big so it is big into every type of energy. But what matters is the percentage of the total:

That little sliver marked 'other renewables' includes all of the expected contribution from PV solar to China's energy mix. That is because solar, in its current form, is next to useless as a source of power for a grid (with the possible exception of desert locations closer to the equator than Canada).

"Need" is the operative word here, because China was trying to make a mirror copy of western consumer capitalism and finally woke up to the realization that they do not have the ecological resources to allow the kind of high energy use that many of us have become accustomed to and take for granted. Our time will come too, but for China....when you risk death just breathing the air in major cities, that gets the message across real fast that coal-fired power stations, dirty manufacturing for export, and millions of cars on the roads etc. are making their growing cities unlivable really fast!

I deleted the graph because it's pie-in-the-sky as Chinese Government officials started realizing that their Country will collapse in ecological disaster if they followed through on those crazy plans of building thousands of coal-fired generating stations etc..

One advantage that the Chinese Communist Government has over our politics is that although they made a full-on embrace of capitalism when the theories and strategies of Deng Tsiao Peng began to dominate, the Party leadership still has a high number of scientists and engineers in their governing assembly. So, by this year it seems they've woken up and smelled the coffee, and are trying to do an about-face on coal and identify the most damaging aspects causing air pollution and environmental degradation:

China to cut coal consumption - Mining Australia

what will be another blow for Australian coal miners, China will institute a reduction in thermal coal consumption within the next five years to cut pollution levels.

The announcement comes on the back of an aborted coal price rally, which saw coal prices fall from a surge of $80 per tonne in February rapidly back down to $68 per tonne.

The price surge was related to a forecast Chinese demand for cleaner Australian coal in response to pressures of air pollution, export cuts from the US and output cuts from Glencore, as well as a 30 per cent rise in the price of oil.

Now these forecasts have been crushed, with the National People’s Congress (NPC) outlining plans to reduce thermal coal consumption by 160 million tonnes over the next five years, according to The Australian.

China’s ongoing pollution and smog issues were the main focus of the NPC, with Chinese president Xi Jinping stating that the government will be increasing focus on the nation’s environmental standards and regulations.

“We are going to punish, with an iron hand, any violators who destroy ecology or the environment,” Xi stated.

*and this happened prior to the Chinese stock market collapse and expected declines in real economic growth, that will weigh even more heavily on the demand for coal than directives from government administrators to change plans during better times.

Edited August 30, 2015 by WIP

[eyeball]

...I fully expect this is where Mulcair's national carbon tax will be made known.......

And what if that addresses the funding issues you and Mr. Trudeau have?

[Derek 2.0]

And what if that addresses the funding issues you and Mr. Trudeau have?

Ask Stephane Dion how popular carbon taxes are during an election campaign.

[WIP]

As for the spelling and grammar idgaf. Deal with it.

As for the rest, co2 levels were significantly higher and lower at early points in earths history. The earth has a way of balancing itself out. The earth is still here...

No, the Earth HAD a way of balancing itself out, as carbon sequestration from plant growth (on land and in the oceans) and rock-weathering absorbing CO2 from falling rain, was able to absorb the extra carbon that less than one billion humans were adding to the atmosphere through burning wood, charcoal, slash and burn agriculture, wars etc., and by the late 1880's...once we were well into the Industrial Revolution in England and the United States...that was it! And CO2 levels have been rising ever since. And what's even more notable and always ignored: methane...an unstable carbon molecule in an oxygenated atmosphere is also growing and at much faster rates....more than 2.5 times the amount of methane that was in the atmosphere back then.

I guess once you're driving over a cliff, there's a large contingent of people who aren't going to turn back even if that's possible! And, we already know which political party in Canada they call home!

[bush_cheney2004]

No, the Earth HAD a way of balancing itself out, as carbon sequestration from plant growth (on land and in the oceans) and rock-weathering absorbing CO2 from falling rain, was able to absorb the extra carbon that less than one billion humans were adding to the atmosphere through burning wood, charcoal, slash and burn agriculture, wars etc., and by the late 1880's...

More silly alarmist rhetoric....99% of all species that have ever existed went extinct before the 1880's....long before the "industrial revolution". That's how the Earth balanced itself out.

A vote for the NDP will not materially change ANYTHING in this regard.

Edited August 30, 2015 by bush_cheney2004

[WIP]

Ask Stephane Dion how popular carbon taxes are during an election campaign.

That affair made me a complete cynic about politics in this Country! Dion did what everybody says they want from their politicians.....stand by their principles and decide policy on evidence....and he was rewarded in kind by the smear campaign from the Oil Party, stabbed in the back by the NDP...which latched on to the weak ineffectual cap™ scheme tossed up by Harper, and of course - stabbed in the back by his own Party as they began setting the table for the next Liberal leadership convention even before the Election was over! And they got their messiah...the Harvard professor who could hardly find Canada on a map...but wouldn't be stupid enough to mention something ahead of the political curve like a carbon tax.....and now they have their new messiah....I hope this one's better than the last one!

[eyeball]

Ask Stephane Dion how popular carbon taxes are during an election campaign.

They're probably more popular than the fear of deficit financing, if listening to you and Trudeau are anything to go by.

[TimG]

Yes, it is easy to document Conservative and Liberal corruption. We are fortunate to have a third option, the NDP.

They just steal from charities: http://thetyee.ca/Life/2013/04/25/NDP-Skimmed-from-Charities/

[WIP]

More silly alarmist rhetoric....99% of all species that have ever existed went extinct before the 1880's....long before the "industrial revolution". That's how the Earth balanced itself out.

A vote for the NDP will not materially change ANYTHING in this regard.

This is going way off topic already, but yes I am aware that our single issue mass media focuses too much on climate change and not enough on the other less known aspects of human society that impact the natural world. It's totally disingenuous to toss off a comment about 99% of animals that have lived on Earth already have gone extinct, without noting that:

a. there is a background rate of extinction that occurs naturally over long periods of time. and

b. there are periods of major extinction and at least five of mass extinction caused by extraordinary events....most of them related to planetary tectonic activity. Up till we came along, the worse extinction: Permian-Triassic boundary event of about 250 million years ago, occurred in three distinct 'pulses' of extinction over 1000 to 10,000 years, and a number of paleontologists specializing in studying that extinction declare that it may have come close to destroying all non-microbial life on Earth....so don't try to pass off the naturally caused extinctions as just part of some earth process or grand design! It took more than 10 million years into the Triassic Era before diversity of life began to recover again from that extinction. It's not like a forest fire and everything just comes back next year!

Up till the last century, most animals became extinct because we hunted them and infected them with diseases we carried that jumped species. In the last century, the huge increase in our populations and resource requirements has taken a large chunk out of the primary biological production that the rest of nature depends on....so there is less to go around for all of the other animals besides being less land to do it with. But in this century, climate change, combined with the increasing share of primary biological production we are taking, is causing the dramatic rates in biodiversity loss, increase in species put on the endangered list, and numbers disappearing and presumed extinct in recent decades.

And the only connection it has with who does/who doesn't vote NDP, is that anti-NDP are uniformly tone deaf to science and common sense, while the NDP supporter is more likely to take heed...even if they don't give environment issues a high enough priority on their list!

[ironstone]

That affair made me a complete cynic about politics in this Country! Dion did what everybody says they want from their politicians.....stand by their principles and decide policy on evidence....and he was rewarded in kind by the smear campaign from the Oil Party, stabbed in the back by the NDP...which latched on to the weak ineffectual cap™ scheme tossed up by Harper, and of course - stabbed in the back by his own Party as they began setting the table for the next Liberal leadership convention even before the Election was over! And they got their messiah...the Harvard professor who could hardly find Canada on a map...but wouldn't be stupid enough to mention something ahead of the political curve like a carbon tax.....and now they have their new messiah....I hope this one's better than the last one!

I get it that you don't like oil.You likely don't have anything or use anything derived from oil in your daily activities either do you?

http://listverse.com/2012/12/23/10-everyday-things-that-started-life-as-oil/