Why I Won't Vote NDP

[cybercoma]

This is starting to win me back a little:

I much prefer Elizabeth May's plan of student debt forgiveness and covered PSE. These jobs are ephemeral and will only help a fraction of graduates. What will end up happening is companies lining up to fill their pockets with the subsidies, while youth get little in return. If we're going to help students enter the job market and be productive in society by buying homes, starting families, etc., we need to relieve them of the crippling debt burdens that student loan programs have created. These programs have allowed universities to increase their tuitions by some 65% because they know people will borrow the money to try to make a better life for themselves. It's about time that the government controlled PSE funding and forced the universities to operate within reasonable budgets, lest they have their funding pulled. That way when students graduate they're ready to give to the economy and not build themselves back up to zero in order to start giving to the economy.

[Evening Star]

I much prefer Elizabeth May's plan of student debt forgiveness and covered PSE. These jobs are ephemeral and will only help a fraction of graduates. What will end up happening is companies lining up to fill their pockets with the subsidies, while youth get little in return. If we're going to help students enter the job market and be productive in society by buying homes, starting families, etc., we need to relieve them of the crippling debt burdens that student loan programs have created. These programs have allowed universities to increase their tuitions by some 65% because they know people will borrow the money to try to make a better life for themselves. It's about time that the government controlled PSE funding and forced the universities to operate within reasonable budgets, lest they have their funding pulled. That way when students graduate they're ready to give to the economy and not build themselves back up to zero in order to start giving to the economy.

These are two different issues, in my eyes. Major reforms do need to be made to PSE and May is at least looking in the right direction. Still, you can have all the school in the world but actual workforce experience is still going to make a huge difference and is often more direct and practical preparation for a career. In fact, I think it is a problem when too many people sign up for university just because they have been told that this is requisite to a get a good job, even when they don't always have the academic skills or interest. Apprenticeship and paid internship programmes might well be a better option for some people.

[Canada_First]

No debt forgiveness. They signed a contract to take money to go to school. Now that they're done school they no longer want to pay. Too bad. Welcome to the real world.

[Michael Hardner]

It's about time that the government controlled PSE funding and forced the universities to operate within reasonable budgets, lest they have their funding pulled. That way when students graduate they're ready to give to the economy and not build themselves back up to zero in order to start giving to the economy.

Hear, hear. Too many people see a university education as a ticket to a middle class job, and universities are willing to help stoke that myth to increase their enrollment. University should be free, but really as a true "higher education" to those who are qualified and interested in education.

[Evening Star]

Hear, hear. Too many people see a university education as a ticket to a middle class job, and universities are willing to help stoke that myth to increase their enrollment. University should be free, but really as a true "higher education" to those who are qualified and interested in education.

I completely agree, but this is why I think it is important to develop apprenticeships and paid internships in order to provide other options.

[drummindiver]

I completely agree, but this is why I think it is important to develop apprenticeships and paid internships in order to provide other options.

As an addendum to why I won't vote NDP is a reason I won't vote Liberal.

It is important to develop apprenticeships. The Ontario Liberals have created taxes that will kill many small businesses (remember, JT says they are just tax shelters for rich ppl anyways) and makes being a skilled tradesperson difficult and expensive.

http://www.stopthetradestax.ca/

I would love free university too. Except of course, there is no such thing.

http://www.macleans.ca/education/uniandcollege/professor-pay-ranked-from-highest-to-lowest/

Edited September 13, 2015 by drummindiver

[drummindiver]

Hear, hear. Too many people see a university education as a ticket to a middle class job, and universities are willing to help stoke that myth to increase their enrollment. University should be free, but really as a true "higher education" to those who are qualified and interested in education.

That's rather elitist, wouldn't you say Michael?

Kind of adds credence to Bukowski's epitath.."Don't Try"

[Evening Star]

Elitism is good, sometimes.

But framing this as an elitist view seems to be based on the assumption that university is somehow superior to college or technical education or direct workforce experience. It is not, necessarily, and other options may well be more rewarding for many people.

Edited September 13, 2015 by Evening Star

[Evening Star]

I would love free university too. Except of course, there is no such thing.

http://www.macleans.ca/education/uniandcollege/professor-pay-ranked-from-highest-to-lowest/

I'll quickly add a slightly OT note that much of the teaching is done by contract and sessional faculty who make a small fraction of these numbers.

Anyway, yes, nothing is truly free in the world but it is possible to advocate for fully publicly funded education that is free at the point of use. I don't necessarily want this but I do think tuition should be much lower.

[Michael Hardner]

That's rather elitist, wouldn't you say Michael?

What is ? My viewpoint on what higher education should be, or how people see university education ? How is making higher-education into higher education elitist, if that's what you mean ? People who are interested in pursuing an academic career or interests should do so to the benefit of themselves and the commons too.

[socialist]

When will Mulcair releases his numbers on carbon reduction targets?

[Canada_First]

You can learn everything a university education has to offer with a library card.

[Bob Macadoo]

You can learn everything a university education has to offer with a library card.

Thanks Will Hunting.