Donald Trumpisms

Michael Hardner · November 21, 2015

Maybe a lot of people do feel that the world ...

Maybe a lot of people do feel like incurable child molesters and psychopathic killers ...

Maybe a lot of people do feel like Muslims ...

Maybe a lot of people do feel it should ...

Yes, you have hit the nail on the head with your focus on FEELINGS.

Everyone needs to feel, feel, feel... There is so much concern with 'feelings' all around. Feelings are an inexorable part of being human of course. When you see something, you get a 'feeling'. Children learn through their 'feelings'.

Let's all talk about our 'feelings'.

But let's talk about how feelings don't serve the process of making intelligent discussions. Feelings don't make sense unless they lead to thinking. If we continue to use the emotional compass instead of the intellectual compass, and to allow citizens to behave as giant adult babies with money then we will get Trumps forever.

The fact of the matter is that people aren't always correct, and the average citizen has to know that while the customer is always right... the citizen is not. Democracy was designed for a subset of the masses, which were an informed public holding diverse values. This "public" could debate issues based on values and come up with plans for common interests that would ostensibly satisfy those values.

Instead we have Trumps, and the descent of politics into a circle of cake-faced babies crying and fighting with each other.

Feelings... nothing more than feelings...

notca · November 21, 2015

Yes, you have hit the nail on the head with your focus on FEELINGS.

Everyone needs to feel, feel, feel... There is so much concern with 'feelings' all around. Feelings are an inexorable part of being human of course. When you see something, you get a 'feeling'. Children learn through their 'feelings'.

Let's all talk about our 'feelings'.

But let's talk about how feelings don't serve the process of making intelligent discussions. Feelings don't make sense unless they lead to thinking. If we continue to use the emotional compass instead of the intellectual compass, and to allow citizens to behave as giant adult babies with money then we will get Trumps forever.

The fact of the matter is that people aren't always correct, and the average citizen has to know that while the customer is always right... the citizen is not. Democracy was designed for a subset of the masses, which were an informed public holding diverse values. This "public" could debate issues based on values and come up with plans for common interests that would ostensibly satisfy those values.

Instead we have Trumps, and the descent of politics into a circle of cake-faced babies crying and fighting with each other.

Feelings... nothing more than feelings...

What people 'feel' and what is prudent cam be very different. When the heart and the head are in conflict one has to assess which is the right thing to do and that is not easy.

To make prudent decisions on world affairs one has only to look at how the world operates. It is a world of reality, not ideology; reality where the aggressors take what they want because the people who act on their tender feelings allow them to do so. Is that the kind of people we want to be? Passive to the point of submission?

There are two kinds of feeling; those that are realistic and come from the head and those that are ideological and come from the heart. The feelings that Trump appeals to are the former.

Michael Hardner · November 21, 2015

1. It is a world of reality, not ideology; reality where the aggressors take what they want because the people who act on their tender feelings allow them to do so.

2. There are two kinds of feeling; those that are realistic and come from the head and those that are ideological and come from the heart. The feelings that Trump appeals to are the former.

I agree with the first point but not the second. It seems weird to me that you believe "feelings come from the head". They don't. Anger and love are both emotions and a fleeting reaction to a news story or a forum post are BOTH emotional. A thinking person feels, then takes a breath, and considers his/her thoughts.

notca · November 21, 2015

A thinking person feels, then takes a breath, and considers his/her thoughts.

Yes, And then changes his feelings.

Edited November 21, 2015 by notca

Michael Hardner · November 21, 2015

Yes, And then changes his feelings.

Changing your feelings... Well, perhaps that happens but maybe that's for another thread.

notca · November 21, 2015

Changing your feelings... Well, perhaps that happens but maybe that's for another thread.

Yes, perhaps. But what thread?

My first hand example of changed feelings is the terrible decision I had to make to take my mother off life support. Not relevant to this thread, but a perfect example of the conflict between doing what the heart tell us and what the head dictates must be done.

Michael Hardner · November 21, 2015

Yes, perhaps. But what thread?

Make one. "Thoughts vs Feelings" or whatever you think. Maybe "moral/ethical issues" ?

My first hand example of changed feelings is the terrible decision I had to make to take my mother off life support. Not relevant to this thread, but a perfect example of the conflict between doing what the heart tell us and what the head dictates must be done.

I think it might be a good start to a thread that would cross political lines. Go to it !

eyeball · November 21, 2015

It seems weird to me that you believe "feelings come from the head". They don't.

Of course they come from the head. If you really believe it is a world of reality and not ideology you wouldn't say otherwise.

I'd suggest the neuroscientist Antonio Damasio's book, The Feeling of What Happens: Body and Emotion in the Making of Consciousness. A fascinating book that I found was instrumental in helping me ground myself in reality. It's a bit of a slog of a read but really worth the effort.

Edited November 21, 2015 by eyeball

Michael Hardner · November 21, 2015

Of course they come from the head.

Well, yes they do literally ... everything does. Your finger doesn't hurt, your brain does.

Wilber · November 21, 2015

No, your finger hurts. Pain is your finger's way of telling your brain something is wrong.

Michael Hardner · November 21, 2015

Trump wants a government database of Muslims and ID cards that show your religion.

http://news.yahoo.com/trump-carson-ratchet-heated-rhetoric-muslims-145349296--election.html

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Republican presidential rivals rushed Friday to condemn Donald Trump's support for a government database to track Muslims in the United States, drawing a sharp distinction with the Republican front-runner on a proposal also deemed unconstitutional by legal experts.

Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush called the prospect of a registry "abhorrent." Florida Sen. Marco Rubio said the idea was "unnecessary" and not something Americans would support. And Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, who has largely avoided criticizing Trump throughout the 2016 campaign, said, "I'm not a fan of government registries of American citizens."

eyeball · November 21, 2015

All Trump needs now to propel him to the front of the pack is a galvanizing event. We live in a world where yesterday's radicals are tomorrow's moderates.

I bet even al Qaeda is looking better these days.

Bonam · November 22, 2015

I bet even al Qaeda is looking better these days.

In fact, they've come out and condemned ISIS actions as being too barbaric and such. So yes, you can count them among the "moderate Muslim majority" now.

eyeball · November 22, 2015

In fact, they've come out and condemned ISIS actions as being too barbaric and such. So yes, you can count them among the "moderate Muslim majority" now.

Good. Now we have the basis for finally negotiating.

Think of ISIS as being the IRA and Al Qaeda as Sinn Fein.

Wilber · November 22, 2015

Good. Now we have the basis for finally negotiating.

Think of ISIS as being the IRA and Al Qaeda as Sinn Fein.

You can be the chief negotiator. Good luck with that.

eyeball · November 22, 2015

Sure, I'd be more than willing to give it a go.

But seriously how do you see this ending, with victory, a negotiated settlement, no end in sight?

What exactly?

Wilber · November 22, 2015

From everything I have read so far, these people don't negotiate, with anyone.

Bonam · November 22, 2015

Sure, I'd be more than willing to give it a go.

But seriously how do you see this ending, with victory, a negotiated settlement, no end in sight?

What exactly?

How do you expect what to end? Islamic terrorism? Western intervention in the middle-east? Flows of refugees from one country to another?

eyeball · November 22, 2015

From everything I have read so far, these people don't negotiate, with anyone.

From everything I've ever seen so far nobody has even tried, anywhere.

eyeball · November 22, 2015

How do you expect what to end? Islamic terrorism? Western intervention in the middle-east? Flows of refugees from one country to another?

Yes all of these, especially when they're inter-related.

Big Guy · November 23, 2015

This morning at one of the political shows Donald Trump said the following:

"There were people that were cheering on the other side of New Jersey where you have large Arab populations,” he told George Stephanopoulos today on ABC’s “This Week.” "They were cheering as the World Trade Center came down. I know it might be not politically correct for you to talk about it, but there were people cheering as that building came down -- as those buildings came down, and that tells you something. It was well covered at the time."

"I watched when the World Trade Center came tumbling down, and I watched in Jersey City, New Jersey where thousands and thousands of people (Arabs) were cheering as that building was coming down,” he said.

There have been no reports that this happened nor can anybody verify what Trump "saw".

God Bless America!

Wilber · November 23, 2015

Trump seems to get a pass on backing up anything he says. I'm not comparing him to this individual personally but his campaign technique is eerily similar to a certain German ex corporal of the 1930's.

For Jews and Slavs, substitute Muslims and Mexicans.

Big Guy · November 23, 2015

There was a confrontation between a black protestor and several whites at a Donald Trump rally to-day;

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/22/politics/donald-trump-black-lives-matter-protester-confrontation/index.html

"Maybe he should have been roughed up because it was absolutely disgusting what he was doing," Trump said Sunday morning on Fox News, less than 24 hours after his campaign said it "does not condone" the physical altercation.

Donald Trump suggested Sunday the half-dozen white attendees at his campaign rally on Saturday may have reacted appropriately when they shoved, tackled, punched and kicked a black protester who disrupted his speech.

God Bless America!

bush_cheney2004 · November 23, 2015

Trump seems to get a pass on backing up anything he says. I'm not comparing him to this individual personally but his campaign technique is eerily similar to a certain German ex corporal of the 1930's.

For Jews and Slavs, substitute Muslims and Mexicans.

Seems that Trump is no different than history's Canadian prime ministers....so I guess he would be in good company here.

On Guard for Thee · November 23, 2015

Seems that Trump is no different than history's Canadian prime ministers....so I guess he would be in good company here.

He's in good company among the likes of Ben Carson, Ted Cruz, and some of those other GOP freaks. He has no place here. Other than as someone to laugh at.