U.S. and G5 + 1 Cave to Iran in Nuclear "Deal"

[Rue]

WWWT if you had to live within seconds of terrorists and nations threatening to

wipe you out solely because you want to live in a state that protects your right to

exist-you would not be on this board using the double standard you do.

You have created a double standard. Your depiction of Iran being equivalent to

the US or Israel speaks for itself.

Its a standard that pretends terrorist nations like Iran are no different than

Israel or the US. That is your political opinion.

I state up front unlike you that I do not worry if the US,Britain, France, Israel, Brazil, South Africa, India

have the nuke, but I do worry about N Korea, Russia, Pakistan and now Iran.

Wishy washy no-to the point yes.

Iran is a terrorist nation. Putin is a lunatic.

Pakistan is full of terrorists and corrupt people.

N Korea is run by a fat boy lunatic.

Iran is run by dinosaur fanatics.

Clear enough?

[Hudson Jones]

HJ your calling Netanyahu a liar shows you pass off as debate

unfounded allegations.

Either show how he lied or stop with the false accusations.

Unfounded? Look at the video posted by marcus. He is lying about Iraq. He lies about Iran. He lies about Hamas. He lies about Hezbollah. He tries to say that Hamas and ISIS are the same, when any educated person knows that ISIS and those groups are enemies and neither of those groups come close to the ugliness of ISIS. He lies about just about anything. It's difficult not to hear a lie every time he speaks.

Since the 1990's, Iran has been a year or two away from having a nuclear bomb, according to Netanyahu.

11 Lies Netanyahu Told Congress on Iran

Netanyahu’s AIPAC Speech: 5 Lies

Benjamin Netanyahu Has Been Lying to Americans For 20 Years

Did Benjamin Netanyahu Lie To Congress? 5 Fact-Checked Claims From The Speech

When a person tries to defend Netanyahu about the recorded lies and when someone calls Obama, Hussein Obama, they are nothing but an extremist Zionist. They are a Foxnews parrot.

Go ahead. I await your diatribe that tries to argue against facts.

[bush_cheney2004]

Canada's state owned and controlled broadcaster was caught lying about PM Netanyahu. HRC complaint called them on it and a correction / retraction followed. Disgusting filthy liars !

http://www.honestreporting.ca/hrc-prompts-cbc-correction-netanyahu-didnt-backtrack-on-renouncing-one-state-solution/15100

Corrections

• An earlier version of this story erroneously stated that Netanyahu backtracked on comments renouncing a one-state solution. He, in fact, had originally renounced a two-state solution.

Edited July 21, 2015 by bush_cheney2004

[Hudson Jones]

Hey look! Netanyahu's brother from another mother:

Saudi Prince Threatens 'Military Action Without American Support' Against Iran

In the first public criticism of the P5+Iran deal by a member of the Saudi Arabian royal family, Prince Bandar bin Sultan told Lebanon’s Daily Star the deal would allow Iran to acquire a nuclear bomb and would “wreak havoc in the region." Covered in The Times of London, the prince also told DailyStar, "Saudi Arabia and the Gulf powers are prepared to take military action without American support after the Iran nuclear deal"

[eyeball]

<p>

Canada's state owned and controlled broadcaster was caught lying about PM Netanyahu. HRC complaint called them on it and a correction / retraction followed. Disgusting filthy liars !

Stephan Harper directed his state broadcaster to bad-mouth Netanyahu?

Better not tell Rue.

[drummindiver]

Ali Khomeni already sAying they'll break the agreement. All said with the chants death to America and Israel sounding loud and clear. Anyone thinks this deal bodes well for anyone is completely delusional.

[WWWTT]

Wishy washy no-to the point yes.

Iran is a terrorist nation. Putin is a lunatic.

Pakistan is full of terrorists and corrupt people.

N Korea is run by a fat boy lunatic.

Iran is run by dinosaur fanatics.

Clear enough?

First off, my handle here is WWWTT. Not very hard to respect! Start respecting the handles people use here or I'm going to report your childish games every time you start throwing a temper tantrum!

And ya, from the section of comment that I have cropped out above, it's perfectly clear to me that you're not into diplomacy.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

Ali Khomeni already sAying they'll break the agreement. All said with the chants death to America and Israel sounding loud and clear. Anyone thinks this deal bodes well for anyone is completely delusional.

Ya actually that's not what I see on CCTV4 from China.

The people in Iran, from the perspective that the news feed shows in China, are very happy, morale is high and the leaders are eager in these steps towards the inclusion of the BRICS expansion!

This is what this all boils down to for Iran. BRICS made it clear to IRAN that they have to "tone down the religion" in order to move forward.

The Iranian respectful display in bowing down to BRICS must have infuriated the US and Europe!

This was a clear display of the feeble weakness of international influence the lame G7 still holds!

WWWTT

[Rue]

HJ you have not provided a shred of evidence to prove Netanyahu lied. You came on this thread to misdirect discussion from the agreement to engage in inflammatory name calling that prevent debating the agreement,]]

On many forums this would be defined as trolling. You pass off subjective derogatory name calling as fact.

You and 'Marcus" don't even make an effort now to disguise the recycled scripts and videos you use.

The fact you haven't a clue how to discuss let alone defend the contents of the agreement speaks loudly.

Edited July 22, 2015 by Rue

[Rue]

First off WWW I am not obliged to write out your full handle. That does not make it disrespectful. You assume that. Don't project feelings on me and try draw me into personal attacks-I have not engaged in any with you. I challenge your words which I find to contain subjective opinionated biases that I challenge.

Your selective criticism of me not being diplomatic as to my opinions is a crock. Talk about selective. Interesting, Do you find the name calling about Netanyahu diplomatic. Lol. Right.

You have zero problem when this board is lowered to yet another piss on Israel exercise but you want to suggest my words are not diplomatic? Lol. Then you have the audacity to say I am wishy washy now not diplomatic. Lol.

Flippity flop with your descriptions are you. Wishy washy, not diplomatic. Lol.

Here you want diplomacy?

1-Iran is a terrorist nation financing world terrorism, illegal invasions of Iraq, Bahrain, Yemen;

2-it finances and supports the regime of Assad;

3-it finances Hezbollah a terrorist organization that actively kills innocent civilians and illegally holds the state of Lebanon hostage;

4-it is financing the rebuilding of tunnels in Gaza, terrorists on the West Bank;

5-it finances terrorists who want to overthrow the regimes of Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Bahrain, Jordan, UAE and Kuwait;

6-it repeatedly threatens and harasses Indian vessels at sea trying to return to port;

7-it brutally hunts down and kills its own citizens for daring question its Muslim extremist policies;

8-it kills and tortures students, Bahaiis, Zoroastreans, Christians, Jews, gays, feminists, trade unionists, Kurds;

9-it has indicated Turkey is now its enemy;

10-it continually ridicules Western democracy and the US;

11-it repeats daily on its media it is at war to remove Israel from the ME, and believes there must be a holy war to rid the world of

Jews and Christians and other infidel and implement a one world Shiite, Sharia law council to rule;

12-it is at war with Sunni, Amidyah and Ismaili, Musims, Berbers, Assyrians and Druze.

Diplomatic my ass.

[WWWTT]

Regardless if you believe all of the stuff you posted is true or not, BRICS is making a serious influence upon Iran and is paving the road to making Iran an world trading partner.

This MUST infuriate countries like Britain, France and the US to sit in the back seat while China, India, Brazil, South Africa and Russia take on the role of leadership directing smaller countries that are head over heals in participating in BRICS!

WWWTT

[Hudson Jones]

HJ you have not provided a shred of evidence to prove Netanyahu lied.

Except that I did.

Recommendation:

Re-read the posts. Think. Then post.

Here you want diplomacy?

It's like watching Bill Cosby's lawyer, complaining about how rapists should be punished.

Unlike most Jews outside of Israel (as posted by Marcus in another thread) who, overwhelmingly, support the nuclear deal with Iran, you have become Netanyahu and Israel's #1 supporter on this forum. You excuse and unconditionally accept all their policies. You have become a Netanyahu parrot.

Israel doesn't know the meaning of diplomacy and doesn't show any respect towards diplomacy. Their tactics involve bullying, buying politicians through their many lobby groups (see congress/senate) and of course, lying.

So before you start complaining about a country's credibility in diplomacy after a massive achievement in international diplomacy and before you try to put down Obama and Iran for reaching a deal, I recommend that you first look at Netanyahu's backyard and clean the bottom of your shoes. Otherwise, you end up looking like Bill Cosby's lawyer complaining about rapists not receiving their due punishment.

[GostHacked]

First off WWW I am not obliged to write out your full handle. That does not make it disrespectful. You assume that. Don't project feelings on me and try draw me into personal attacks-I have not engaged in any with you. I challenge your words which I find to contain subjective opinionated biases that I challenge.

Your selective criticism of me not being diplomatic as to my opinions is a crock. Talk about selective. Interesting, Do you find the name calling about Netanyahu diplomatic. Lol. Right.

You have zero problem when this board is lowered to yet another piss on Israel exercise but you want to suggest my words are not diplomatic? Lol. Then you have the audacity to say I am wishy washy now not diplomatic. Lol.

Flippity flop with your descriptions are you. Wishy washy, not diplomatic. Lol.

Here you want diplomacy?

1-Iran is a terrorist nation financing world terrorism, illegal invasions of Iraq, Bahrain, Yemen;

2-it finances and supports the regime of Assad;

3-it finances Hezbollah a terrorist organization that actively kills innocent civilians and illegally holds the state of Lebanon hostage;

4-it is financing the rebuilding of tunnels in Gaza, terrorists on the West Bank;

5-it finances terrorists who want to overthrow the regimes of Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Bahrain, Jordan, UAE and Kuwait;

6-it repeatedly threatens and harasses Indian vessels at sea trying to return to port;

7-it brutally hunts down and kills its own citizens for daring question its Muslim extremist policies;

8-it kills and tortures students, Bahaiis, Zoroastreans, Christians, Jews, gays, feminists, trade unionists, Kurds;

9-it has indicated Turkey is now its enemy;

10-it continually ridicules Western democracy and the US;

11-it repeats daily on its media it is at war to remove Israel from the ME, and believes there must be a holy war to rid the world of

Jews and Christians and other infidel and implement a one world Shiite, Sharia law council to rule;

12-it is at war with Sunni, Amidyah and Ismaili, Musims, Berbers, Assyrians and Druze.

Diplomatic my ass.

1- US drone strikes on Pakistan, Yemen, Libya, Syria, sure, on the up and up there

2-has financed terrorism in the past (Osama bin Laden)

3-Finances dissidents in Ukraine, Cuba, and many other places

4-indirectly funded ISIS with money and gear left behind in Iraq because Mission Accomplished

6-Continual harassment of other nations, helps crush dissident in tyrannical nations like Bahrain (why does the US hate freedom??)

7- ok this one I don't have a non witty reply for

8- Guantanamo Bay, extra ordinary rendition, secret CIA torture sites

9-has used Turkey to launch attacks on Syria

10-Ridicules everyone

11-Propaganda galore on western TV war on terror, ect ect ect.

12-is at war with Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen,

[WWWTT]

7- ok this one I don't have a non witty reply for

7- Edward Snowden, and a whole bunch more!

http://www.rt.com/usa/cia-guilty-agent-kiriakou-063/

WWWTT

[Rue]

HJ you have not provided any proof Netanyahu lied. Provide the evidence. You said you did, so provide it. Telling me to re-read posts that contain no evidence means what? Go on finish what you started just once. Show in the recycled posts you provided proof of a lie. You can't and so this response where you can't reference a damn thing.

You done or do you want to keep this charade up trying to pass your subjective opinions off as fact.

[Rue]

When you address me HJ do not refer to me as being unlike most Jews. Do not engage in stereotype of Jews or me. This kind of personal bigoted stereotyping of me and other Jews assuming you can use our Jewish identity as something relevant to the issues being debated is personal and it lowers this forum to base name calling. Enough. I have asked the moderator to review your Jew comments. My being Jewish and other people being Jewish is no more relevant than you being a Muslim.

[bush_cheney2004]

...I am being very careful because I have just been given my 5th warning point - this time for describing another poster as being an anti-Semite. I had not known that it is considered name calling on this board. I thought it was a common occurrence. My apologies to all concerned.

Good job mods....the urge to personally attack or label other members instead of challenging their ideas is strong in some.

This game is not hard to play.

[Charles Anthony]

Folks,

Our tolerance for shenanigans is dropping. We will take down posts that contain a whiff of a personal discussion.
N.B.: I did not say personal attack. I said discussion --- the motives of which are irrelevent.

Follow this logic: If a reader must know ANYTHING about a MLWebber that is NOT already contained in the thread in order to understand your post, then your post is both TOO personal and unacceptably incomprehensible ---- it will be treated as gibberish. We encourage you to re-write it lest we nix it.

[Big Guy]

To Charles Anthony - Got your message - thank you. I think that it is a great idea to keep from getting personal with other posters. Intelligent posters should not even require moderation but all it takes is one or two posters pushing the envelope and the personal attack genie is released. Time for all to move to a higher ground.

[WWWTT]

All "world leaders" lie....so why single out the Prime Minister of world's only Jewish state ?

Good job mods....the urge to personally attack or label other members instead of challenging their ideas is strong in some.

This game is not hard to play.

So which is it?

First you bring religion into the debate, then you turn around and say that's a no no?

Not worried about CA intervention into this thread because I'm starting to get real tired of the weak debating tactics being constantly used here and CA can use some lessons on these from time to time.

This whole religion strawman is always used in debates that remotely involve Israel and are central in labeling Iran

Also the moderators here on this site have shown an protection towards some religions as opposed to others.

WWWTT

[bush_cheney2004]

So which is it?

First you bring religion into the debate, then you turn around and say that's a no no?

So which is what ? The issue was personal attacks and labels, not religion. Why did the CBC lie about PM Netanyahu ?

[Rue]

WWWTT the issue that has been reviewed is bringing up the religion of individual persons on this board. That is not relevant to the issues in dispute as you are well aware.

Also if you want to make an accusation that certain religions are protected differently on here then others prove it. Start a thread and prove it.

I am going to explain this yet again.

If someone criticizes Israeli foreign policies, that is one thing. If someone however questions the right of a Jew to express their identity as a collective political national one, that can be anti-semitic. It almost always is for this reason-it creates a double standard which says, no one questions the Vatican being a Christian state or Muslim sharia law states, or Britain being an Anglican state whose head of state is also head of the Anglican church-but these same people suddenly have a problem if Jews want a state.

In that sense it becomes anti semitic in that it says, there is one standard for Jews, another for non Jews and Jews need to know their place, and their place is not in their own state. That Sir is a double standard based on the bigoted assumption that Jews should know their place and one is a bad Jew for thinking its in their own state.

You've seen it on this board. References made as to good and bad Jews in reference to Zionist Jews as being bad and anti Zionist Jews as being good and then comments as to people's religion.

You really give a damn what my religion is? I doubt it.

Others clearly do. Its not relevant to the issues discussed.

Religion is at the pith and substance of Muslim extremism, Zionism, and most political conflicts around the world. It just is.

We use religion as a pretext to hate and have wars.

Now you want to make a veiled reference to a religion being treated unfairly on this board you are out of line. You are also out of line with Bush's posts-read them back. They do not use religion as a strawman tactic.

Let's go back now and debate the issues. Yes you are right-Muslim extremist terrorism fits in and is deeply inter-related to how people perceive the current Iranian regime. I can only speak for myself. Iranians are not my issue. Extremists in the name of Allah running their government and fueling a war with Sunnis, Israelis and the rest of the world they perceive as infidels are.

I don't like extremists period. I don't support any religious extremist. I think for example the right wing idiots in Israel who attack churches are punks, putrid little thugs in need of a thrashing.

I do not condone them but let's not smeer Zionists or Jews or Israelis in discussions about Israel. We Jews have right to exist in a Jewish state as others do their states. We only want the same rights as Muslims or Christians, or Hindus in India.

Now when you point the finger at how others debate look at your own. People disagree over things. Does it make their debate weaker than yours because you disagree with them? Of course not.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Rue

[Bonam]

After having followed the deal drama for some time, here are my thoughts:

Before the deal, Netanyahu was saying Iran was about 1 year away from a bomb. Now, he is saying Iran is about 10 years away from a bomb. Netanyahu can be relied upon to give the shortest plausible timeframe in this regard... he would not understate the threat of Iran.

Therefore, it seems like the deal at least forestalls and delays Iran by up to 10 years from getting a bomb. That gives 10 years for further negotiation, 10 years of opportunity to encourage political change in Iran to make it less of a threat to its neighbors, and 10 years to prepare contingency plans should Iran resolve to go for a bomb after the 10 year period.

Deal may have some flaws as critics claim but seems better than not having a deal. The other alternative of an international military strike against Iran to prevent it from developing nuclear capabilities never seemed particularly likely anyway. The deal is the only realistic way forward. Maybe the terms could have been slightly more favorable for the West if the negotiators were shrewder but it's still a step forward, not backward as some claim.

[Hudson Jones]

After having followed the deal drama for some time, here are my thoughts:

Before the deal, Netanyahu was saying Iran was about 1 year away from a bomb. Now, he is saying Iran is about 10 years away from a bomb. Netanyahu can be relied upon to give the shortest plausible timeframe in this regard... he would not understate the threat of Iran.

Therefore, it seems like the deal at least forestalls and delays Iran by up to 10 years from getting a bomb. That gives 10 years for further negotiation, 10 years of opportunity to encourage political change in Iran to make it less of a threat to its neighbors, and 10 years to prepare contingency plans should Iran resolve to go for a bomb after the 10 year period.

Deal may have some flaws as critics claim but seems better than not having a deal. The other alternative of an international military strike against Iran to prevent it from developing nuclear capabilities never seemed particularly likely anyway. The deal is the only realistic way forward. Maybe the terms could have been slightly more favorable for the West if the negotiators were shrewder but it's still a step forward, not backward as some claim.

This is great! Thanks for sharing that.

You are in the majority as most Jews living outside of Israel feel the same way.

[WWWTT]

So which is what ? The issue was personal attacks and labels, not religion. Why did the CBC lie about PM Netanyahu ?

Give a ratt's ass about the CBC strawman you're trying to throw out there!

The issue is about when Israel or it's leaders are criticized, you start crying/implying that it's because the critic is singling out the "Jewish state".

You are implying the critic is anti Jewish! That's a label! You're guilty!

WWWTT