U.S. and G5 + 1 Cave to Iran in Nuclear "Deal"

[bush_cheney2004]

This is something many people here do not see, and very unfortunately. I have seen, on China's CCTV4 news channel, footage of the Iranian people celebrating in the streets across Iran over this deal and the prospect of joining BRICS. China is very proud of this deal, very proud that their country is an influence for positive growing change.

Yay China...'bout time it got off of its backward ass and started to lead on something.

[WWWTT]

Yay China...'bout time it got off of its backward ass and started to lead on something.

China's past=USA's future!

WWWTT

[bush_cheney2004]

China's past=USA's future!

China's past = getting ass kicked by Imperial Japanese Army. USA to the rescue !

[WWWTT]

China's past = getting ass kicked by Imperial Japanese Army. USA to the rescue !

Thanks for proving my point! But again, you still have a backwards biased view!

The Japanese WERE western ALLIES in WW1!

So were the Chinese.

But the failure in western leadership in international negotiations regarding treaties at that time led to the Pacific arena of WW2 and more importantly to the Chinese, the Japanese invasions (the Japanese invasion of China actually started well before WW1).

Japan was an aggressive military expansion country at the time, exactly the same like Israel of today!!!!

Russia also helped China very much in this time.

Chinese, Vietnamese, Koreans, Philipeanos, etc etc actually helped the Americans open up more fronts against the Japanese.

Regardless, the Iran deal is a success that saves face for all involved nations, this is a deal only China can lead, America rides China's coat tails.

WWWTT

[Rue]

Now back to quality over quantity:

I am very thorough when I repudiate false comments yes. Lol.

[Rue]

Thanks for proving my point! But again, you still have a backwards biased view!

The Japanese WERE western ALLIES in WW1!

So were the Chinese.

But the failure in western leadership in international negotiations regarding treaties at that time led to the Pacific arena of WW2 and more importantly to the Chinese, the Japanese invasions (the Japanese invasion of China actually started well before WW1).

Japan was an aggressive military expansion country at the time, exactly the same like Israel of today!!!!

Russia also helped China very much in this time.

Chinese, Vietnamese, Koreans, Philipeanos, etc etc actually helped the Americans open up more fronts against the Japanese.

Regardless, the Iran deal is a success that saves face for all involved nations, this is a deal only China can lead, America rides China's coat tails.

WWWTT

Yah yah, you missed the cite on China being a welfare state of the US . Lol. By the way you hear that sound?...Listen.....its the sound of China's economy built on slave labour collapsing...poof.

But hey this is a country that entered into a military alliance with Israel and detests Obama and actually gets along with Republicans including McCain so hey I mean when they aren't arresting Russian male models for carrying around salad they do some things right.

[Rue]

Oh WWWT you stated:

"At least the leaders from those countries keep their mouths shut and try to cooperate."

Here let me translate:

"Big mouth Zionist Jews should know their place."

Yah got it.

pssst- Netanyahu has the right to speak up for his people and he sure as hell will continue to.

Iran is a direct enemy of Israel, is in a state of war with them, and continues to state its no.1 priority is to rid the ME

of Israel. You want to give it $150 billion and you expect Netantyahu to sit on his ass and smile?

Lol. Right. Here's a hint, the whole pith and substance of the Israel debate with anti Zionists comes down to people

making couched references that Jews don't know their place, i.e., in their own county, living in the ME, thinking they have the right to

exist without a threat from Iran, on and on.

Does it look like telling Netanyahu or Jews in Israel to know their place is useful comment?

How about we tell China, know your place, get the hell off of Vietnamese, Japanese and Russian islands you illegally unvaded , stop dumping counterfeit crap products made by slave labour in world markets, get out of Tibet, what would you say?

Gee we are selective as to which countries we tell to shut up.

Here's a hint-Israel will speak out. So will many others about the human rights violations in Iran, the terrorism it sponsors, the extremism it exports, the twisted violent view of Islam it promotes. Some of us don't remain silent and appease such regimes.

You go ahead and piss on Israel-because I sure as hell am gonna piss on Iran-not Iranians who hopefully one day can break free but its government.

Then again China, Iran, they do have in common-governments that do not permit freedom of speech, democracy, human rights.

Its a natural fit.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Rue

[Hudson Jones]

You want to give it $150 billion

No one is giving Iran money. This is money that already belongs to them. The assets are being unfrozen. This is misinformation that is not only repeated by you and a few others on here, but also in the media.

The only giving by U.S. is the $3 billion+ that is given to Israel to spend on weapons that end up killing innocent Palestinian and Lebanese civilians.

[Rue]

Now wait. HJ the person who comes on this forum and denies BDS's position is to dismantle Israel as a Jewish state and to be less than candid as to who Omar Baghouti the founder and one of the leaders of BDS is/ was, is concerned about misrepresentations. Lol.

The $150 billion is money owed to Iran for the sale of oil that was frozen. India, Soouth Korea and Japan are believed to owe about 5.5 billion each of that and China 30-40 billion.

The money was frozen because Iran was using it to finance terrorism. Its been unfrozen because Obama believes it will now be spent on terrorists who fill fight ISIL.

This is why the deal mentions nothing of terrorism and why Obama suddenly removed Iran from the terrorist list of nations as well as removed Hezbollah from his list of terrorists and refers to them both as legitimate peace partners while they both continue as I type to remind the world they are at war not just with ISIL but Israel, the US and the West.

Obama who once backed ISIL thinking he could control it now repeats the same mistake with Iran.

But hey let's pretend Iran is a peace loving nation and will spend that money on its people-you know the ones it imprisons and tortures when they question it or are found out to be Zoroastreans. Kurds, Bahaiis, gays, feminists, trade unionists, Jews, Christians, students, political opponents, journalists. Its going to compensate them for what it does to them.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Rue

[marcus]

The $150 billion is money owed to Iran for the sale of oil that was frozen.

Nice to see you that you learned something. Conclusion: This is money that was already Iran's.

[CITIZEN_2015]

It was NOT a cave in but a mutually beneficial compromise deal.

Nobody caved in to nobody. It was a compromised deal. In a compromise negotiators give and take. The US and G5 were asking Iran to refrain from building the A bomb. Something that THEY HAVE DONE THEMSELVES for decades having thousands of A bombs. That was what put them in the position to ask others not to do what they have done themselves. And yes the money estimated between $100 to $150 billion was Iran's at the first place but was frozen by above countries. Based on this deal Iran would refrain from building the bomb for another 10 years and in return they get their own money back. So the title that the US and G5 caved in to Iran may be a bit misleading. It was a compromise. And it was about the security of Israel as always the pro-Israeli lobby is very strong in the US but this time they didn't get ALL that they wanted from their servants so as why there is so much opposition to this deal.

Iran is the most advanced country in the region with the largest middle class and highly educated citizens where women participate in the society and workplaces on equal basis. In fact I believe two third of university students numbering millions are female students and where females assuming high positions. It is unlike the neighboring countries where women are not even allowed to drive (sad but true). Iran is a non-Arab Persian country with centuries of history and civilization having the second largest Gas reserves, fourth largest oil reserves and all sorts of mines. It is Russia in Gas reserves and Saudi Arabia in oil and Australia in mining resources. Unlike its neighbors it also has the human resources with tens of millions of its citizens having university education and an open minded society with more than half the population having access to internet and satellite TV. They managed quite well under the harshest sactions regime in place and continued to survive and make progress while under sanctions. IT WAS IN THE INTEREST OF THE WEST TO REACH A COMPROMISE DEAL WITH THIS EMERGING MAJOR POWER and this frightens Israel and there is nothing they can do but to make noises. It was NOT caving in.

Edited August 2, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[Rue]

Citizen that was funny....women participate in society and workplaces on an equal basis....most advanced country in the world....largest middle class....open minded society......

Got it. Thanks for educating me on Iran. I had no idea how progressive it was.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Mr. Rude face distorting what I said is not bringing you any credibility. People can read my post and your response and make a judgement. I never said Iran is the most advanced country in the world as you quoted me I said Iran is the most advanced country in the region and that region includes some violent and backward countries like Afghanistan where women still have to wear berka and Saudi Arabia where women are not allowed to even drive and some countries in war or political instability like Syria and Iraq and Lebanon .....

On other points if you don't know or believe me then educate yourself. Yes Iran has the largest middle class in the region and highly educated too where two thirds are under 35 and open minded compared to its neighbors and decades of sanctions have help their industries so that they have their own industries now. They make over a million cars per year down from a million and half because of sanctions but will hit 3 million soon and will be exporting and they have a strong steel and cement and construction industries second to none in the region. They make most of their own military hardware including tanks and ships and they have an advancing missile industry as well as why Israel is frightened and unlike Iraq and Syria Israel never dared to attack them because they were aware of crushing retaliation. And yes women participate in the workplace and they are paid equal though they have to wear the mandatory hejab which most of them push the boundaries by wearing heavy makeups and colorful head scarfs and dresses.

There is now a flow of business people flying to Iran starting from France and Germany even two weeks after this deal because they realized that there are plenty of potentials for investments and profits. They are aware of iran possessing a great Human and natural resources. If you or North America is not aware yet or close your eyes out of contempt for them because they stood up for their rights and won against powerful countries then that would be your loss and North America's loss. Too bad.

Edited August 3, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[Big Guy]

Welcome to the thread.

[Argus]

Citizen that was funny....women participate in society and workplaces on an equal basis....most advanced country in the world....largest middle class....open minded society......

Got it. Thanks for educating me on Iran. I had no idea how progressive it was.

How can you deny their peace loving nature? Why, their leader just came out with a book on the guiding principles of his advanced state! I'm sure you could learn much from it!

http://nypost.com/2015/08/01/iran-publishes-book-on-how-to-outwit-us-and-destroy-israel/

[CITIZEN_2015]

Again please educate yourself. Iran has NOT invaded any country past 250 years. They have been invaded many times though. Latest by Iraq who was ruled by Saddam Hussain and received military and intelligence assistance from the US as well as France and Russia during the 8 years including chemical weapons from the US which were used against Iranian troops and civilians even their own civilians. Yes you are right it is the US who is a peace loving country not that they invaded both Iraq and Afghanistan or killed hundreds of thousands of civilians in Vietnam and Japan (by dropping an A bomb) or not because they supported the most corrupt repressive military regimes in Central and South America and Middle East and not because they stage a coup in Iran to overthrow the democratically elected government in 1953 or same in Chile in 1973 .......and the list goes on. Or Israel who invades and kills so many defenseless women and children ......So yes please educate yourself before making such posts as history is before us to make a judgment as who the peace loving nations are and who are not based on their actions rather than empty words for internal consumptions.

Btw, my post was not about the peace loving nations but rather the fact that the nuclear deal signed was a compromise fair deal that both sides got something and Iran negotiated on an equal basis and that is why some don't like them. Like it or not they are a regional power something they were even before their revolution under the Shah or even before that for 2500 years they ruled half the middle east from Afghanistan to Russia and Egypt. May be it is not even an emerging major power but a returning one.

Edited August 3, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[bush_cheney2004]

Iran didn't wait for any nuclear deal before bombing Iraq's nearly completed Osirak nuclear power plant in 1980. They thoroughly screwed up the attack, so Israel showed them how to do it right. It was the first instance of a preventive attack on an enemy's nuclear power plant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Scorch_Sword

[CITIZEN_2015]

In 1980 Iran had just come out of a long bloody revolution. Its army weakened and many of its best officers and pilots dismissed or executed by the post revolutionary government. Iraq took advantage of its weakness and invaded intending to take over the oil province of Khuzestan and annex it but Iranian nationalism prevailed and not only they drove back the invading Iraqi army (in spite of lack of spare parts for its military and lack of hardware and in spite of the fact that the whole world was backing Iraq with most advanced fighter jets and tanks and intelligence) but they also start advancing into Iraq which later came to a halt because Iraq was armed to its teeth by the US, Russia and France. I can see a lot of contempt for Iran in this thread and I think that is because they stood up against the arrogant powers and negotiated a fair deal and did not give in. They are also an emerging power and many pro-Israeli lobby don't wish to see this.

Btw Israel never dared to lunch such attack on Iran because they knew Iran has the power to retaliate very harshly. History shows that Israel only attacks the weak and kill those women and children who cannot fight back.

Edited August 3, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[Argus]

Btw Israel never dared to lunch such attack on Iran because they knew Iran has the power to retaliate very harshly. History shows that Israel only attacks the weak and kill those women and children who cannot fight back.

What power does Iran have to retaliate against Israel other than funding terrorists, which it does anyway? It has a pathetic air force which the Israeli's would crush if it ever tried to reach them, an amateur army, and a bathtub navy.

[Rue]

History shows Israel only attacks the weak and hill women and children who can not fight back. That's your response now?. Lol Zionist women and children killing cowards? Get out, Never heard that one before.

In my opinion your words evidence:

1-you haven't a clue what is going on in Iran

2-you haven't a clue as to the history of Israel

3-Mr. Rude Face in one breath, Zionists as women and child killing cowards in the next breath.

Got it.

Let me know when you can find Iran on the map. Seriously because if you could you would

realize no nation is going to invade it on the ground for very obvious reasons.

Your words sound like a young person banging brought up on Muslim extremist pap.. You clearly do not understand war or why

Israel has no intention of invading Iran let alone attacking it unless forced. You clearly do not understand a thing about war let alone

terrorism and why Iran fights through proxy terrorists like Hezbollah or Al Quaeda.

If Israel had to strike at nuclear facilities it would not come without the help of Iranians. You best think why and how that

is possible, You clearly have no clue who Iran's opponents are. They start and end with Iranians wanting freedom-the very Iranians that supported and still are friendly with Israel.

Sorry to burst your bubble but the Iranian underground is made up of the very progressive people you have no clue about.

They have already died and been tortured and more will before your utopian nation comes crumbling down. Kaboom.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Rue

[CITIZEN_2015]

Argus I agree that Iran air force may not be a match for Israeli's but really I think you have put them down real bad. Iran is not going to use neither the air force nor the navy to retaliate against an illegal attack but rather the many hundreds or thousands of missiles it has developed over decades and right now pointing at Israel less than a thousand kilometers away and its armed supporters and revolutionary guards in Lebanon and Syria. Israel declares war by an unprovoked attack and will suffer the consequences by any means that Iran sees fit. You call it terrorism because they may use their armed supporters they may call it differently. I hope it never comes to that as I don't wish to see any civilian killed on any side.

Mr. Rue I need a translator to translate what you say. You try to type what I said but wrongly instead of quoting (I never typed Israel hill women and children lol) and what do you mean Zionist women and children killing cowards!!!! Is this your say or you quote me saying this!!!???

Btw on what planet is Iran lol?

Since I posted Mr. Rue added to his uninformed funny post. Lol the part that you say I must have been brought up as a Muslim extremist was just too funny I almost fell down my bed out of laugh. Your posts can be humorous even though uninformed or out of contempt.

So no nation would invade Iran on the ground right? So Iraqis invaded Iran underground I suppose not on the ground? You have no clue what you are saying . And btw nobody says about Israelis invading Iran they have no such military capacity. It shows how uninformed your mind is to even think it as a possibility. Look at the map if you are able to find Iran then look at its size and mountains and population too. Learn one or two before you post about something even Americans have reached the conclusion that they cannot invade Iran on the ground. If Israel attacks it will use its air force and using US made bunker buster bombs to destroy Iran's nuclear facilities underground.

Edited August 3, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[Argus]

Argus I agree that Iran air force may not be a match for Israeli's but really I think you have put them down real bad. Iran is not going to use neither the air force nor the navy to retaliate against an illegal attack but rather the many hundreds or thousands of missiles it has developed over decades and right now pointing at Israel less than a thousand kilometers away

Why do you use the term illegal? To start with, Iran frequently calls for the annihilation of Israel, most recently in a book by their own leader. And given its frequent expressions of its determination to destroy Israel, I doubt any unbiased court would find Israel's actions in destroying or impeding their nuclear research as anything but self defense. Second, it funds and equips terrorist groups which attack Israel - which it also admits openly. By any measure this is an act of war.

Finally, Iran is alleged to have a new missile which can hit Israel (most can't) but there are doubts about both its range and accuracy. It is not a fast missile, based on an old Russian design (KH-55), and goes only mach 0.7. Nor do they have 'thousands' of them, more like a few dozen. Most such missiles would likely be easy meat for Israel's Iron Dome system. Launching a back and forth long range war with Israel would hurt Iran far more than Israel. Israeli warplanes would target Iran's energy infrastructure with fairly pinpoint accuracy, while the best Iran could do would be to lob these missiles in Israel's general direction and hope they kill a few random Israelis.

As for Iran's 'armed supporters' if they could hit Israel now they'd be doing so.

[CITIZEN_2015]

It is illegal because based on international and civil laws you can't attack any country based on an assumption that they may or may not attack you in the future or just because they do research on something that may be used in an attack unless Iran attacks Israel first (which would be equally illegal) then Israel can attack Iran on that basis. Btw Israel do have the bombs themselves and likely many and are asking Iran not to have what they have developed themselves in hiding. Talking about hypocrisy!!.

I am not an expert in Iran's missile program but I have read somewhere that they have 5000 of them as how accurate they are I don't know but Israel is at a short distance from western Iran..They have been developing these missiles for 35 years now and yes with the aid of China and North Korea I believe they do have a large number of missiles that is why US imposed sanctions on them so that they stop their missile program because US is Israel's protector thanks to the money and power of the Zionist lobby groups dominating the US government and US Senate.

I remember they hit Baghdad pretty accurately. One day the building of the ministry of defense in downtown Baghdad was hit precisely and leveled to ground killing dozens of military personnel. That was in mid 80's and you are saying that some 30 years later now they are not accurate. They don't have to target any building. All they have to do is the target the city of Tel Aviv and that is pretty big target. Each missile no matter where in the city they hit would destroy at least a block or two. That is enough to cause thousands of casualties even if they have just a few dozen which I believe they have much more than that.

I think that you grossly underestimate Iran's military. This is a country which was an (Persian) empire not another newly born non-existent Arab country born after the end of British imperialism in the region (Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan ....). Even the Israeli government itself estimated years ago that a retaliation by Iran would cause at least 500 Israeli death. So why do you think that in spite of all noises they have made past 20 years threatening to attack Iran's nuclear facilities Israel have not attack Iran all these years. Do you think they care for enemy civilian casualties (Israel fearing enemy civilian casualties is really funny lol) or they love Iran or Iranians and they don't wish to hurt their feelings. No they fear devastating Iranian retaliation. They had no hesitation to attack other countries whenever they wish or feel threatened.

Again I am hoping for the peace not war and don't wish any casualty on any side Iran or Israel. And we are diverting from the subject of the thread and the reason I posted to clarify that it was not a cave in by the west but rather negotiation on an equal basis and a fair deal. This deal will prevent a war though thawed Israeli plans to engage the US in another costly war to preserve its interests. And will prevent many mothers and fathers, sons and daughters, brothers and sisters from grieving their loved ones' unnecessary loss of (American, Iranian and Israeli) lives.

Edited August 4, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[Rue]

The Iraqi invasion of Iran was not intended to take over Iran. It was part of a war that went on for many years that was fought on the ground but neither nation intended to fully occupy the other.

What I was referring to was Israel or the West invading Iran. They would not and can not. The logistics required is not something any nation today can finance. More to the point the geography makes it impossible to win a land war. That was what I was referring to. I was referring to the fact that Israel, Saudi Arabia, all the supposed enemies of Iran have no intention of invading it by land. If Israel engaged in a conflict with Iran it would be with air or subarmine missible attacks not ground soldiers.

I hope that is clear enough even with your translator.

Now next thing, please tell me what your mother tongue is because if its farsi or Arabic I will avoid certain words that do not translate into either.

Do I think you have been brought up on extremism yes. I do not and am not allowed to get personal with you and that was not intended as an insult but a direct comment on your words. I don't believe you have ever been to Israel and I am having a hard time believing you would be Iranian given what you have said about Iran. If you are Iranian then please tell me after what you have said, you can't or won't acknowledge the human rights violations Iran is committing against its own people not to mention others outside its borders and its constant violation of international law through the financing of terrorism.

[Rue]

_{Citizen you came on this forum making all kinds of statements about Iran.}

_{I will provide you some cites on the treatment of women in Iran. Please explain why they are wrong:}

_{http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/mhviran.htm}

_{http://www.iranhrdc.org/english/publications/legal-commentary/1000000261-gender-inequality-and-discrimination-the-case-of-iranian-women.html}

_{http://www.csmonitor.com/Commentary/Opinion/2011/0308/Iran-s-brutality-toward-women-should-shock-West-into-seeking-regime-change}

_{https://nosharia.wordpress.com/2010/11/20/iran-brutal-oppressive-treatment-of-women-and-its-even-worse-the-iranian-sex-trade/}

_{http://fis-iran.org/en/irannameh/volxix/gender-discrimination}

_{You really want to come on this forum and think you will describe Iran as a progressive place for women and I am rude for scoffing at you for making such a statement?}

_{Yes I asked you, do you know where Iran is because if you claim to live there you sure as hell must have a vision problem.}