eyeball Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 My question, what do you think gun control will do for poverty and mental health? Gun control, amongst other measures will help make it easier to deal with these bigger problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 No it would only mean exercising better control over the I% who are in power over our countries in the west. Once decency finally starts radiating down the rest would see the light soon enough and follow along. Rriiiight. Because history is replete with examples like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 I don't know what I'd say, I'd be shocked if an elitist, left leaning personality in the media actually addressed the issue with the same level of passion as they do with these lesser events....... It's not an 'issue' as such. Blacks kill Blacks because Blacks live among Blacks, and very often in poverty in dysfunctional families in a dysfunctional culture which praises machismo and toughness and 'gangstas'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Right.....logically they would call for disarming all of law enforcement as well. The U.S. is an armed nation...always has been....that's how it came to be. That's not really true. Guns were for hunting. They were a tool, and nothing more. They didn't used to be a fetish. Hollywood turned them into a weird sort of national symbol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 The past had the U.S. rising to the world's #1 economy with lots and lots of GUNS, You don't think it might have had something to do with all that nearly empty land and hundreds of millions of people moving into it? I mean, the population of the UK is 64 million. The population of the US is 323 million. The absence or presence of guns has nothing to do with which has the world's #1 economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 That's an odd position to take. Do you really think that if the US were to act differently, all the other countries in the world would follow suit? North Korea would open its doors and feed its population. Middle Eastern countries would welcome blasphemers with informed discourse. Witch Doctors in Uganda would embrace children and offer them succor instead of using their bits to try and cure ailments. Rangers and Celtic fans would sing together during the Old Firm match. I don't know... I'm convinced that if governments throughout the western world actually lived up to their stated principles regarding human rights that the world would be an almost immeasurably better place all around. It's 2015 ffs...we should be able to see bright city lights shining on the Moon and the first of our interstellar probes should be arriving at their destinations. Instead we're still stuck down a gravity well choking on our own shit and corruption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Rriiiight. Because history is replete with examples like that. It's certainly replete with officially stated intent. Our very system of governance was based on principles of honest accountable leadership and real consequences for abuses of power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) It's not an 'issue' as such. Blacks kill Blacks because Blacks live among Blacks, and very often in poverty in dysfunctional families in a dysfunctional culture which praises machismo and toughness and 'gangstas'. Right, and I've read somewhere (I'll try and find it) that 60-70% of all gun homicides in the United States are drug related...... edit: Drug related gun crime Edited June 21, 2015 by Derek 2.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Gun control, amongst other measures will help make it easier to deal with these bigger problems. Oh, like in Mexico........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Right, and I've read somewhere (I'll try and find it) that 60-70% of all gun homicides in the United States are drug related...... Yet drugs are widely available across the globe. Odd how the US has so many massacres still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeNumber Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) Right, and I've read somewhere (I'll try and find it) that 60-70% of all gun homicides in the United States are drug related...... So it's the war on drugs that is failing the US? So eliminate the illegalily of drugs, eliminate 60-70% of gun crime. Including a black market that perpeutates drug lords in mexico. Edited June 21, 2015 by PrimeNumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 So it's the war on drugs that is failing the US? So eliminate the illegalily of drugs, eliminate 60-70% of gun crime. Including a black market that perpeutates drug lords in mexico. That would make sense no? As this author points out, banning guns within the United States is unrealistic, instead focus should put towards the failed war on drugs: Reliable statistics on the number of drug-related murders in the United States are hard to come by. A 1994 Department of Justice report suggested that between a third and a half of U.S. homicides were drug-related, while a recent Center for Disease Control study found that the rate varied between 5% and 25% (a 2002 Bureau of Justice report splits the difference). Part of this variance is that "drug-related" murders are hard to define. There are murders committed by people on drugs, murders committed by addicts to get money for drugs, turf-war murders by drug suppliers, and murders committed by gangs whose principal source of income is drug sales. Imagine that, a realistic solution that could help curb gun violence dramatically in the United States...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Yet drugs are widely available across the globe. Odd how the US has so many massacres still. It is, like I said, odd that Mexico has stringent gun control measures, yet 4-5 times greater rates of gun violence than the United States....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) That's not really true. Guns were for hunting. They were a tool, and nothing more. They didn't used to be a fetish. Hollywood turned them into a weird sort of national symbol. There was no "Hollywood" in the 18th & 19th centuries. The right to bear arms was established in the U.S. Constitution....quite the "fetish", eh ? Edited June 21, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 ....The absence or presence of guns has nothing to do with which has the world's #1 economy. I already said that in response to another member's assertion that the U.S. economy is no longer #1 because of guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 So it's the war on drugs that is failing the US? So eliminate the illegalily of drugs, eliminate 60-70% of gun crime. Including a black market that perpeutates drug lords in mexico. The war on drugs is failing in Canada too, irrespective of guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeNumber Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 The war on drugs is failing in Canada too, irrespective of guns. Oh we know. Harper loves his war on drugs though, as did Bush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeNumber Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 That would make sense no? As this author points out, banning guns within the United States is unrealistic, instead focus should put towards the failed war on drugs: Imagine that, a realistic solution that could help curb gun violence dramatically in the United States...... Imagine that another realistic solution the right wing in the US are against, much like gun laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Imagine that another realistic solution the right wing in the US are against, much like gun laws. No, it is not realistic because U.S. citizens have gun rights. The fight to restrict or confiscate gun possession would be far worse than current gun homicides. It is not just the "right wing". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeNumber Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 No, it is not realistic because U.S. citizens have gun rights. The fight to restrict or confiscate gun possession would be far worse than current gun homicides. It is not just the "right wing". It is the right wing that wishes to continue the failed drug war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) It is the right wing that wishes to continue the failed drug war. Nope....support and criticism for U.S. federal and state legislation & law enforcement covers the entire political spectrum. Many "right wingers" supported Amendment 64 in Colorado. Gun rights enjoy broader support than the legalization of dope. Edited June 21, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) Imagine that another realistic solution the right wing in the US are against, much like gun laws. Are they though? DELETED: Unnecessary overly large images. The opposition to drugs is namely one rooted in politics, much like the left's views on gun rights in the States..........yet guns are being produced in record numbers and pot is legal in four states and decriminalised in countless other States and growing...... Edited June 22, 2015 by Charles Anthony DELETED: Unnecessary overly large images. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Nope....support and criticism for U.S. federal and state legislation & law enforcement covers the entire political spectrum. Many "right wingers" supported Amendment 64 in Colorado. Gun rights enjoy broader support than the legalization of dope. And Alaska etc...........Gun rights are not going anywhere.......but like gun rights, political hang-ups of the Right (Gay marriage, drugs etc) are also diminishing through the natural course.........its almost like its harder to take away and withhold natural rights of the individual than it is to "allow" the populace such things........ Hence gun rights, abortion, gay marriage, legal drugs etc all have eventual endgames, and opposition to such things is a wasted effort in the long-run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 "Gun strokers" once supported universal background checks, but "social justice warriors" fought against the inclusion of mental health records and nationwide arrest records within the FBI's NICS program......clearly one doesn't want to trample their privacy rights!!!! The link you provided doesn't say anything to support the last half of your claim. Says who? Conservatives don't like crime....... Conservatives don't like criminals. They don't care much for doing anything about it beyond banging them up in jail. Can you refute his decades long study? Lots of people already have. He's pretty well discredited. Yeah, but if the majority of those other 10000+ people killed themselves with rope or sleeping pills, I doubt you'd be calling for the banning of rope or medication....... But they didn't and they don't, so this is just another red herring. Many people who attempt suicide with other methods will fail and not try again. With guns, they seldom get a second chance. Why? I get great pleasure in the fact that the advent of uncontrollable 3D guns will put your mantra of gun control forever out of reach....... And then you can continue to do what you are doing for poverty and mental health: absolutely nothing. .and your ilk will be forced to actually address the underlying issues. My "ilk" will have to because your ilk certainly won't. Every other civilized country has lesser rates of poverty, which in turn results in lesser violent crime and established healthcare systems that are able to cope with the mentally ill.........Not to mention, most of these "civilized countries" don't border one of the larger producers and transport hubs of recreational drugs. I love the idea that rates of violent crime aren't inextricably tied to access to the tools of the trade. As stated countless times, your meme of gun control=less crime is absurd..........as used as an example countless times, Mexico has far more stringent gun control than even Canada, yet 4-5 times the rate of gun crime. Inversely, New Zealand or the Czech Republic have far laxer gun laws then most US States, but far less rates of gun crime....... What no Switzerland? Compared with other high-income countries, the United States has a homicide rate 6.9 times higher, a difference driven almost exclusively by firearm homicide rates that are 19.5 times higher. There was a significant positive correlation between guns per capita per country and the rate of firearm-related deaths. This is data, not cherry picked anecdotes. Perhaps not to you, but you've clearly failed on one, and to the best of my knowledge have done little for the later.... We haven't failed. Canada, like most civilized countries, regulates firearms and enjoys a successful balance between the good of society and the legitimate needs of farmers and hunters and saddo gun fetishists alike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 There was no "Hollywood" in the 18th & 19th centuries. The right to bear arms was established in the U.S. Constitution....quite the "fetish", eh ? The right to bear arms for a militia. But they were still just tools until Hollywood started glorifying the hero with the gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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