Truth and Reconciliation... Legitimacy

[Scott Mayers]

...on the Canadian Residential School system...

Note: "Truth and Reconciliation" is the name of the commission/inquiry of our government into the residential schools. The report will be out this coming week (Tuesday?).

I am troubled on the issue of residential schools and how it is being portrayed.

(1) The reports of this through the media assert that a widespread conspiracy existed to deliberately annihilate the Canadian Indian culture. What troubles me initially is that while a general blame is granted to "Canada", no particular person or persons is charged nor are the claims being challenged. How is it being allowed to openly accuse the general population of society without formal charge and evidence?

For instance, it is asserted that 6,000 natives died within these schools with clear innuendo that they were murdered by a cult of evil teachers! Who are these abusers? Why is there no criminal charges?

(2) The Federal government is held accountable yet the supposed unspecified particular crimes were related to the institutes of the churches (religions) that were granted full control of these schools. How is it that no one is noticing that the factor of having particular religious institutes operating these schools is the most significant error that leads to likely abuses simply based on the nature of highly biased cultural beliefs.

(3) This conspiracy theory of mass abuses has less likelihood statistically than UFO ones because the religious institutes involved are varied and disconnected. Yet the media shows no dissenting views!!??


I am certain that the WAY this was set up and handed off to religious institutes was the fault. While there are always likely to be abuses regardless, a better position to hold against anything should base itself on the nature of "boarding schools" and isolation from the culture one is supposedly being integrated into.

I believe that the intents of our government on a logical level (not the cultural or religious biases) were appropriate when they initially set up the schools. We didn't have a clash of cultures when Europe came here so much as a clash of of civil evolution. As such, it is necessary to do something of which no ideal scenario could have worked fairly.

[Refs: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/residential-schools-findings-point-to-cultural-genocide-commission-chair-says-1.3093580; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_system]

Edited May 31, 2015 by Scott Mayers

[Michael Hardner]

Thanks for re-posting with link....

[bush_cheney2004]

Why were religious organizations used for the residential school "assimilation program" ?

Were there no public schools or infrastructure to execute and oversee the government's policy ?

Edited May 31, 2015 by bush_cheney2004

[TimG]

Were there no public schools or infrastructure to execute and oversee the government's policy ?

Churches where an integral part of all education programs at the time (look at the Catholic school board legacy in Ontario).

[Scott Mayers]

Why were religious organizations used for the residential school "assimilation program" ?

Were there no public schools or infrastructure to execute and oversee the government's policy ?

No, the CBC news channel asserts that this was done at least to save money. I'd imagine it also helps that the burden gets transferred to the options of the churches to have better freedom to teach in their preferred ways.....which is why I question how the churches are not given more attention for blame here.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Scott Mayers

[jacee]

...on the Canadian Residential School system...

Note: "Truth and Reconciliation" is the name of the commission/inquiry of our government into the residential schools. The report will be out this coming week (Tuesday?).

I am troubled on the issue of residential schools and how it is being portrayed.

(1) The reports of this through the media assert that a widespread conspiracy existed to deliberately annihilate the Canadian Indian culture. What troubles me initially is that while a general blame is granted to "Canada", no particular person or persons is charged nor are the claims being challenged. How is it being allowed to openly accuse the general population of society without formal charge and evidence?

For instance, it is asserted that 6,000 natives died within these schools with clear innuendo that they were murdered by a cult of evil teachers! Who are these abusers? Why is there no criminal charges?

The process was designed to avoid criminal charges. Perpetrator names are expunged from victim accounts.

(2) The Federal government is held accountable yet the supposed unspecified particular crimes were related to the institutes of the churches (religions) that were granted full control of these schools. How is it that no one is noticing that the factor of having particular religious institutes operating these schools is the most significant error that leads to likely abuses simply based on the nature of highly biased cultural beliefs.

The class action suit against the government was successful. That's why settlements were paid and the Truth Commission was ordered.

(3) This conspiracy theory of mass abuses has less likelihood statistically than UFO ones because the religious institutes involved are varied and disconnected. Yet the media shows no dissenting views!!??

The United, Anglican and Catholic churches were the main ones involved in running the schools, and abuses occurred in all. The common element was the federal government that (under)funded the schools, and mandated and enforced compulsory attendance ... at gunpoint at times.

And the government failed to address issues of abuse and the very high death rates of the children reported by their own medical examiner.

I am certain that the WAY this was set up and handed off to religious institutes was the fault. While there are always likely to be abuses regardless, a better position to hold against anything should base itself on the nature of "boarding schools" and isolation from the culture one is supposedly being integrated into.

I believe that the intents of our government on a logical level (not the cultural or religious biases) were appropriate when they initially set up the schools. We didn't have a clash of cultures when Europe came here so much as a clash of of civil evolution. As such, it is necessary to do something of which no ideal scenario could have worked fairly.

[Refs: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/residential-schools-findings-point-to-cultural-genocide-commission-chair-says-1.3093580; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_system]

I think most of your questions could be answered if you read the TRC report when it comes out on Tuesday, or other material already available.

.

Edited May 31, 2015 by jacee

[bush_cheney2004]

Did the so called "savages" need additional religious indoctrination and conversion from native practices and belief systems ?

Were any schools other than Christian used for the "program" ?

[jacee]

No, the CBC news channel asserts that this was done at least to save money. I'd imagine it also helps that the burden gets transferred to the options of the churches to have better freedom to teach in their preferred ways.....which is why I question how the churches are not given more attention for blame here.

The churches were included in the class action suit.

.

[bush_cheney2004]

How did the church round up all these native children ? Threats ?

[jacee]

How did the church round up all these native children ? Threats ?

Yes. And RCMP.

.

[Scott Mayers]

The churches were included in the class action suit.

.

As what? Plaintiff or Defendant or ...?

From your response post #6:

on (1), you mentioned the process was deliberately designed to prevent criminal charges. Was an explanation provided for this? As a member of the public, we are a 'jury' of our government actions. How is it that the perpetrator/victim claims not provided to us even in sample? At least, as our media reports this whole thing, it is absurd to presume that we should simply TRUST our authorities....especially when it is authorities who are being put on the spotlight in this case in the first place.

0n (3), the Churches are the major factor of the direct abuses. Our government literally has politicians embedded in these religious institutes from the start here. But it is these religious beliefs, not the intention of these type of laws to assimilate, that was the problem. I see this convenient charge against the government (us all) as an inappropriate cause of the problems. ... And we are being forced to presume that 'assimilation' is BAD while 'segregation', it's opposite is what? It's funny though that it is the nature of segregation through the isolation of these kids in these schools was one of the problems. But note that the concept of boarding schools was also considered a relatively fortunate and luxurious concept in the 1800s.

The Churches are more responsible for faults. The rhetoric about government forcing them at gunpoint 'sometimes'?...this can happen technically today if some parent adamantly refused to assure their kids go to elementary school too.

As to the report, I'm already anticipating no significant extras to clear up how or why our media has reported on this as an odd contradiction: that residential schools were massively abusive with innuendo of murder but then downplay it simultaneously as merely a 'cultural' genocide.

[jacee]

Scott, I'm going to have to ask you to do your own research.

The process has been going on for years, beginning with the Class Action suit against the government and the churches.

The TRC report Tuesday will likely include examples. The TRC has been documenting survivors's stories for 5 years now.

And yes, genocide is being downplayed, IMO.

.

Edited June 1, 2015 by jacee

[bush_cheney2004]

So what brought an end to this government policy as executed by the churches ? Were the abuses and deaths direct contributors, or were the federal and provincial programs ending for other reasons ?

[jbg]

Did the so called "savages" need additional religious indoctrination and conversion from native practices and belief systems ?

Were any schools other than Christian used for the "program" ?

A well-run, quality program could have paid dividends. The spread of Europeans and the drastic reduction in native populations from disease was a fact. A good rather than abusive assimilation program could have incorporated natives into American and Canadian life.

Instead we got what seems to have been an atrocity.

[jacee]

jbg and bush_Cheney ... Are you familiar with the Indian boarding schools in the US?

Perhaps you could inform us, for comparison?

.

[bush_cheney2004]

A well-run, quality program could have paid dividends. The spread of Europeans and the drastic reduction in native populations from disease was a fact. A good rather than abusive assimilation program could have incorporated natives into American and Canadian life.

Perhaps, but the loss of native culture(s) would have been even worse.

I can't imagine an America without the original people and their belief systems.

[bush_cheney2004]

jbg and bush_Cheney ... Are you familiar with the Indian boarding schools in the US?

Perhaps you could inform us, for comparison?

.

See this wiki entry for a general description of Indian boarding schools in the U.S.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_boarding_schools

[BubberMiley]

This article also provides an interesting overview of the Fort Snelling concentration camp in Minnesota.

https://www.minnpost.com/minnesota-blog-cabin/2012/05/giving-history-consequences-apologizing-minnesota%E2%80%99s-indian-people

[jacee]

truth-and-reconciliation-commission-wraps-up-this-week-

"I don't expect much to happen after, I don't think," she said. "This is just going to be one final hurrah for us and we're just going to be placed aside. I think that's the reality for us [survivors]."

Some of the truths about residential schools uncovered in the last six years include horror stories of homemade electric chairs, malnutrition experiments and the deaths of more 6,000 children.

Justice Murray Sinclair, head of the commission, said that number is likely higher.

"Undoubtedly, the most shocking piece of information that we uncovered was the number of children who died in the schools," Sinclair said. "The number of children who died was a significant number, and we think that we have not uncovered anywhere near what the total would be because the record keeping around that question was very poor."

...

The report will include recommendations, and many expect Sinclair to argue that Canada's treatment of aboriginal people in residential schools be deemed "cultural genocide."

In an interview with CBC's Power and Politics on Friday, Sinclar said the "evidence is mounting that the government did try to eliminate the culture and language of indigenous people for well over 100 years."

"They did it by forcibly removing from their families and placing them within institutions that were cultural indoctrination centres, really," he said. "That appears to us to fall within the definition of genocide within the UN convention of genocide."

I really wonder where we will go from here.

The truth of trying to destroy a culture to gain control of their land is an ugly fact of Canada.

The truth of childrens' lives lost and damaged is hard to face.

We live on that land.

Our economy relies on that land, always has.

What will reconciliation look like?

truth-and-reconciliation-this-is-just-the-beginning/

#MyReconciliationIncludes

.

Edited June 1, 2015 by jacee

[Accountability Now]

I really wonder where we will go from here.

It seems like as always...money is the answer. As per your Globe and Mail article, Perry Bellegarde says the following:

We do need a significant one-time investment to enable us to catch up and address unacceptable problems such as toxic drinking water and collapsing housing. We must remove the arbitrary 2-per-cent cap on funding increases for essential services because it does not keep pace with inflation or our booming population. Fair funding will ensure that our children have the same opportunities as every other child in Canada.

Its hard to take them serious about truth and reconciliation when it really sounds like its just a cash call. I will say this, I agree that a significant cash transfer should be involved however not just a hand out. It should be a one time settlement that will buyout all the land from the reserves from each person living on the reserves. At that point they can join the rest of Canadian society and really turn the next chapter. Not only will they have cash in hand to do so, but also it will be reversing the apartheid nature of reserves that many are claiming caused many issues back in the day. If they want, they can even stay on the reserves and own their own property thus forming a municipality subject to the same taxation and laws as the rest of Canada. We could finally put this apartheid behind us.

Of course....that's not what they want. They want to be separate. They want to be seen as their own nation equal to Canada. That is the truth.

[eyeball]

Put yourself in their shoes and think about it. Isn't that what you'd want too?

[Accountability Now]

Put yourself in their shoes and think about it. Isn't that what you'd want too?

What I want and what I need are two different things. Lots of money has been thrown and First Nations and even billions towards residential schools and that hasn't solved anything. The system is broken and pouring money in a broken system will not fix the system.

[eyeball]

I agree. They need jurisdiction autonomy and nationhood poured into their system. Money without power is just money.

[PIK]

It takes 2 to reconcile and if it means just give us more money then it is not going anywhere.

[Accountability Now]

I agree. They need jurisdiction autonomy and nationhood poured into their system. Money without power is just money.

They have every right to their own autonomy just like Quebec does. Of course they don't really want that do they?