eyeball Posted August 26, 2015 Report Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) What frustrates me to no end is Canadians have agreed that the action of our government outweighs anything Omar has done.... He hasn't done anything that can be proven in our Supreme Court...it's no wonder you're so frustrated. that and the fact that the treatment our soldiers get when killed or wounded fighting our enemies of our nation.....do not merit the time or effort that Omar has received....it sickens me to know that he may profit from his actions while many of my comrades in arms have to cope with handouts.....and Canadian citizens are good with that, and yet hope Omar may get millions for his trouble.... Soldiers volunteered, as free adults - don't they have to take any responsibility for that? Omar was effectively and illegally conscripted against his will in comparison - when he was a young child ffs. Personally I think it's nuts that Ottawa is leaving so many wounded soldiers in the lurch especially the one's with PTSD. The last thing Canada needs is a bunch of angry ticking time-bombs who are trained how to kill and blow things up walking around. That said maybe the more blood and fortune that Canadians have to shell out in the after-math of our stupidity the sooner Canadians will think twice about volunteering to get involved in more of the same. Edited August 26, 2015 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
ReeferMadness Posted August 27, 2015 Report Posted August 27, 2015 Several terrorist organizations, who's goals were to enslave an entire nation through brute force and terror.....so they could preserve a perverted interpretation of the KORAN for their own gains. YA that sounds about right.....and Omar was a part of that, who believe in it so much he risked his own life to take part in it....His family also believed in it, so much they willing were to sacrifice their own sons for the cause..... So, we all know that terrorist is a political designation and one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. You have two sided fighting. When the "good guys" kill the "bad guys", it's OK. But if the "bad guys" kill the "good guys", it's a crime? What kind of war is that? But what were armies doing there in the first place? To get bin Laden? That's crazy because the Taliban offered to hand him over to a neutral third country for trial. To conquer terrorism? Nice job, now we have ISIS. To help the cause of women? Don't make me laugh. They invaded a country because George Bush had an excuse. And George Bush needed a war so he would get re-elected. And if this alleged crime took place on Afghan soil, why was he sent to Guantanamo? The answer is clear. The entire operation was legally questionable and they made up the rules as they went along. If that widow wants to sue someone maybe she should start with dubya and the American government. and yet here we sit today, His family are still residing in Canada, living off the tit of our good will, our tax dollars.....and here is the kicker, we the people of Canada are considering paying Omar off because we violated his basic rights..... So, he was a child when he did whatever he did. Clearly that doesn't mean anything to you but in Canadian law it has some implications. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Army Guy Posted August 27, 2015 Report Posted August 27, 2015 He hasn't done anything that can be proven in our Supreme Court...it's no wonder you're so frustrated. Soldiers volunteered, as free adults - don't they have to take any responsibility for that? Omar was effectively and illegally conscripted against his will in comparison - when he was a young child ffs. Personally I think it's nuts that Ottawa is leaving so many wounded soldiers in the lurch especially the one's with PTSD. The last thing Canada needs is a bunch of angry ticking time-bombs who are trained how to kill and blow things up walking around. That said maybe the more blood and fortune that Canadians have to shell out in the after-math of our stupidity the sooner Canadians will think twice about volunteering to get involved in more of the same. Are you saying that with all the evidence again'st Omar , the tapes, etc they could not prove that he aided a terrorist group, spied again'st our allied in time of war, placed mines and IED's that took the lives of other NATO soldiers..... Soldiers do accept full responsibility, but as part of the rules of warfare they expect everyone to step up as well, terrorist do not follow any of the rules and kill without exception, and yet they expect to be treated fairly under the rules everyone else follows.....have the cake and eat it to.....what frustrates me is when they finally face the music.....and are punished for their crimes Canadians scream bloody murder his rights were violated.....Nobody once asked about the Afghan rights he violated.....planting mines and IEDs with out regards to whom set them off......ya nice guy....but we as Canadian shave to hold the high moral ground.....can't be violating a terrorist rights, he is a Canadian citizen....but no tears for the grief he and his comrades have caused the Afghan people..... I get it eyeball to you he was a child.....in Afghanistan he was of fighting age, and treated as an adult....but he was'nt an aghan was he he was a canadian citizen fighting with and for a terrorist organization, which under any law is treason including inter- national law.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted August 27, 2015 Report Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) So, we all know that terrorist is a political designation and one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. You have two sided fighting. When the "good guys" kill the "bad guys", it's OK. But if the "bad guys" kill the "good guys", it's a crime? What kind of war is that? According to Websters :Terrorist..... the use of violent acts to frighten the people in an area as a way of trying to achieve a political goal. : Freedom fighter......a person who is part of an organized group fighting against a cruel and unfair government or system. Pretty Clear to me, Omar was part of a known terrorist group, that happened to be in Afghanistan, the Taliban used them as their strong arm to terrorize the citizens of Afghanistan.....The Taliban although enjoyed the support of thousands of Afghan citizens, but for the majority of afghan citizens they were forced though the use of terror and punishment so the Taliban movement could live in a world of their dreams, their own take on Islam.....forcing millions to take part in this nightmare or face death....They were nobodies freedom fighters, just plain terrorist..... The rules of war although they are not many and they are simple they are important, to avoid needless killing of civilians or non combatants , and to govern those involved in a conflict with some dignity, and compassion....break those rules and those guilty are war criminals, and can be held accountable for their actions, or in case of the conventions would not be entitled to some of it's protections....SO ya it is again'st the rules for a civilian dressed in regular street cloths with no armband or marking to id them as combatants to engage soldiers....this rule is not to protect soldiers it is to protect civilians you are not combatants .....along with the other rules of war that terrorist break....And it's called warfare.... But what were armies doing there in the first place? To get bin Laden? That's crazy because the Taliban offered to hand him over to a neutral third country for trial. To conquer terrorism? Nice job, now we have ISIS. To help the cause of women? Don't make me laugh. They invaded a country because George Bush had an excuse. And George Bush needed a war so he would get re-elected. How did that work out, just before the invasion the taliban had refused US request to hand over Bin Ladin, and told the US they would defend him. i guess you can't talk to terrorists.....ISIS has got nothing to do with Afghanistan.....try Iraq or Syria...different war....another G Bush adventure.... And if this alleged crime took place on Afghan soil, why was he sent to Guantanamo? The answer is clear. The entire operation was legally questionable and they made up the rules as they went along. No, the US took him POW, so they are responsible for his internment and safety....Handing him over to the Afghan government was not an option, Omar would have been buried in the desert long ago.....Legal or not the US government was going to hurt someone for 9/11 besides having a terrorist organization rule with force over millions was not illegal either.....but it was the right thing to do... So, he was a child when he did whatever he did. Clearly that doesn't mean anything to you but in Canadian law it has some implications. Glad you brought it up, what implications are you talking about.....clearly your not saying that Children have not been held accountable for the crimes they have committed.....that we as a nation have never charged a child with adult crimes, such as murder....That we have never handed down a modified sentence to under age adults.....because maybe my inter net is different than yours.... Edited August 27, 2015 by Army Guy Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Topaz Posted August 27, 2015 Author Report Posted August 27, 2015 Let me ask u guys a question ...these "wars" are in the Middle-East, not so much else where Why? Could it be the "powers-that -be" whom ever u chose them to be, want complete control over the region and if they have to go in to, invade, destroy and set military bases to control for the natural resources and other advantages. It seems the wars in the ME, soldiers from countries are being used to achieve the powers-that -be agenda. Why is it the ISIS is allowed to do what's its doing. Even Hitler came to an end but ISIS seems unstoppable even from the super power countries. So what is really going on in the ME? BTW, I 'm not say anything bad about the military , they can be much of a victim as anyone in this world. Quote
eyeball Posted August 27, 2015 Report Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) Are you saying that with all the evidence again'st Omar , the tapes, etc they could not prove that he aided a terrorist group, spied again'st our allied in time of war, placed mines and IED's that took the lives of other NATO soldiers..... Amongst many other things, including so what if he was an illegally conscripted, indoctrinated child who's choices were being made for him by criminals. Soldiers do accept full responsibility, but as part of the rules of warfare they expect everyone to step up as well, You misunderstand, I said that volunteers have to take some responsibility for the consequences of volunteering. That includes knowing full well that many Canadians revile the mission and all it stands for and accepting that politicians are fickle liars that will just as soon leave you in the lurch. Can you not see why having the qualified support of a super-majority of Canadians in a referendum BEFORE invading another country would be to your advantage, or do you think this would weaken us as a nation? I get it eyeball to you he was a child.....in Afghanistan he was of fighting age, and treated as an adult....but he was'nt an aghan was he he was a canadian citizen fighting with and for a terrorist organization, which under any law is treason including inter- national law.... He wasn't a child just to me, but to millions of Canadians and other human beings around the world too, including the SCC. In case you haven't noticed the morality of war is now a very divisive topic of discussion that's drawing clear new battle lines right here amongst us at home - probably the only good thing to have come out of this godforsaken mess. Edited August 27, 2015 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Rue Posted August 28, 2015 Report Posted August 28, 2015 Your position Eye ball is that he was a child. Its there in all your words. Don't suddenly deny that and hide behind millions of Canadians or the SCC. Don't. We are talking about your position not anyone else's. Don't. That device of distancing yourself is pointless. Bottom line is if a 15 year old murdered your family after invading your home I have problems believing you wouldn't want him tried in adult court. There are those who define being a child simply by biological age. Some of us define it by more then that. Some because they have partisan political views that depict terrorists as freedom fighters and victims of course will support any opinion that denies he was a terrorist. Depicting him as a child victim turns him into.a cute, harmless, puppy who only bites because you hold him wrong. Some of us work with dogs. You can rehabilitate some, not all. You want to depict Kadr as a cute puppy that is just misunderstood You have no clue what rehabilitation will be needed or the behavioural issues involved. You just want to release him and blame anyone who has been and will be bitten by him. He will continue to bite. At no time has he expressed remorse, regret, apologized and denounced what he did. In fact he is surrounded by people like you who reward him when he jumps, snarls, and humps. You don't get it. You reward his bad behaviour calling him victim. Go on keep patting him and say good boy and see if that will change what he is. I worked with people like him and dogs in confined areas. The cold hard reality of what will have to happen before he stops biting if that ever happens is clearly something you don't want to discuss. You are too busy trying to pet him. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted August 28, 2015 Report Posted August 28, 2015 Bottom line is if a 15 year old murdered your family after invading your home I have problems believing you wouldn't want him tried in adult court. Are you suggesting here that Khadr invaded somebody's home and then killed them? Because if you are you really need to get your facts straight. The weird attempt to conflate him with dogs nicely rounds out a fairly warped POV. Quote
Big Guy Posted August 28, 2015 Report Posted August 28, 2015 Are you suggesting here that Khadr invaded somebody's home and then killed them? Because if you are you really need to get your facts straight. The weird attempt to conflate him with dogs nicely rounds out a fairly warped POV. To rationalize the killing of others it is far easier if you view them as sub-humans. That view is popular in history, currently in the Middle East and put to use in ISIS philosophy and in Jerusalem. It is easier to fool yourself into believing that you are part of the "master race" or "Gods chosen people" when you view others as animals. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
eyeball Posted August 28, 2015 Report Posted August 28, 2015 Your position Eye ball is that he was a child. Its there in all your words. Don't suddenly deny that and hide behind millions of Canadians or the SCC.WTF? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Army Guy Posted August 29, 2015 Report Posted August 29, 2015 Eyeball: Amongst many other things, including so what if he was an illegally conscripted, indoctrinated child who's choices were being made for him by criminals. That does not answer the question, you said he could not have been convicted in a Canadian court of law...... Are you saying that with all the evidence again'st Omar , the tapes, etc they could not prove that he aided a terrorist group, spied again'st our allied in time of war, placed mines and IED's that took the lives of other NATO soldiers... I get the fact young me Khadr was illegally conscripted ( another inter national law that has seen how many convicted of it again) that he had little control over his life......During the Nuremberg trails large numbers of NAZI soldiers had also tried the same defense, either i was following orders, or i had no choice.. and at the end of the war many of those soldiers were also under 15 years of age..... Inter national states that a combatant is responsible for their own actions, that includes the the right and wrong ones... not only combatants but everyone.....It does not give any mention of an age limit....todays laws state that special consideration should be given to children, but that it does not preclude punishing them for serious crimes.....Murder is one of those crimes.... You misunderstand, I said that volunteers have to take some responsibility for the consequences of volunteering. That includes knowing full well that many Canadians revile the mission and all it stands for and accepting that politicians are fickle liars that will just as soon leave you in the lurch. Can you not see why having the qualified support of a super-majority of Canadians in a referendum BEFORE invading another country would be to your advantage, or do you think this would weaken us as a nation? I do get your point, i also get that you don't fully trust the government, and for me i don't fully trust the Canadian public and their abilities to make informed decisions on all topics....But like have have said numerous times, when this mission first started Canadians did not revile the mission they fully supported it.....Over time they grew upset over it.....not to the point they would do anything about it, just they no longer supported it..... From my boots, i and thousand of Canadian soldiers were left in the middle, with no support meant no more funding....funding for things like tanks, desert camouflage, harden vehs to name a few....i know what your thinking we got all of that....yes we did but in order to get it Canadian soldiers had to pay the cost in lives lost.....from my side of the fence that is not support that's contempt...... And while this went on Soldiers started thinking "fuck them " we can do this on our own, we can make a difference here....Ya thats a sobering thought, the very soldiers that represent our nation now thinking we were alone in a conflict , with bad guys on one side and Canadians that did not give a shit on the other......we made the Afghan conflict our own, hence why soldiers were not to happy to leave not because we are war mongers, because we had not completed the job the Canadian people had sent us there to do, the same people that left us there for 10 plus years.... Sorry for the rant, that is why i don't think a referendum idea would work that and many other different reason, Canadians don't give a shit...they can barely get out to vote every 4 years, how many do you think would come out to vote on any topic....then of course our government is slow enough when it comes to making decisions see Rwanda....took them 10 plus weeks or more to agree to send in some troops, the killing was done, crises over...i wonder how long it would it take to have a referendum, educate the people on the topic, get them to the polls, get the results , then have the government spring into its routine.....In theory i do like it, but in reality i don't think it would work.... He wasn't a child just to me, but to millions of Canadians and other human beings around the world too, including the SCC. In case you haven't noticed the morality of war is now a very divisive topic of discussion that's drawing clear new battle lines right here amongst us at home - probably the only good thing to have come out of this godforsaken mess. Thats just it eyeball, to you he was a defenceless child. while in Afghanistan he was of military age....regardless of what the conventions or inter national law say's......Terrorists did not sign on to any rules, the Taliban did not give a rats ass about Inter national law, and they employed thousands of underaged males as combatants....And none of them will be brought before the courts to answer for that......they did their dirty work for an organization who's sole purpose in life was to bring terror to millions of Afghanis people, so they could live out their twisted version of the Koran... I seen these terrorist in action to many times to forget they're deeds, to many times to think of them as defenceless children.....Omar was just one of many, who would gladly collect the bounty on any western head, including yours..... If you really think that man kind is going to change over the morality of war.....i think your crazy.....if WWII and everything that went along with that, mass killings, fire bombings, death camps, and what did it change ....What makes you think a few small conflicts are going to do it.....i think the only ones that this will effect is those that have experienced it, not just vets but those that lived through it as well..... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted August 29, 2015 Report Posted August 29, 2015 To rationalize the killing of others it is far easier if you view them as sub-humans. That view is popular in history, currently in the Middle East and put to use in ISIS philosophy and in Jerusalem. It is easier to fool yourself into believing that you are part of the "master race" or "Gods chosen people" when you view others as animals. Sad but true, but it is done to make killing easier, it also stirs the public into disliking them as well, making support for the cause easier....every nation that has gone to war has used this type of thinking.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted August 29, 2015 Report Posted August 29, 2015 I do get your point, i also get that you don't fully trust the government, and for me i don't fully trust the Canadian public So citizens that don't trust the government and soldiers that don't trust the citizenry. There's a combination that often results in disaster. From here on in, the SCC is who and what will be determining whatever else Omar Khadr will need to deal with including re-visiting the past and if the writing isn't clear on which direction it leans in his case I doubt there's much more I can add. Face it, you'll pretty much have to overthrow Ottawa and take over the country to even come close to having your way with him now. Sorry we blew your mission for you, them's the breaks. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Rue Posted August 29, 2015 Report Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) Your last comment to me Big Guy shows you insult me as a Jew. Its there for all to read and shows you true sentiments-hatred for Jews not just me and how you don't even hide it now. I don't want it censored. I want it to sit and rot there so all can see you addressed me in a way to not just insult me as a Jew but all other Jews Zionist or not. Isn't it interesting you spend so much time on the forum portraying yourself as a misunderstood victim then lay down the hatred for all to see. You are no victim, just a hateful man whose couching of his hatred of Jews has all but disappeared in ability to even sound plausible. You Big Guy are well aware yhe concept of being chosen has nothing at all to do with Jews believing we are morally superior for others. This shows not only your need to insult me as a Jew but to engage in anti semitic canards. Atta boy. Go on tell the board again how you have Jews as friends after that comment. Tell me how these Jews who you claim find me a bad Jew, are good Jews for believing falsely they are chosen. Lol. Foot in buttox so deep no one will remove it. Now let's address what Guard said to me. Yes I am suggesting Kadr and terrorists invaded the homes and land of Afghanis and killed their innocent children, wives, eldery and civilians, of course. What world do you live in? Terrorism is not war. Its proponents do not wear uniforms and follow the Geneva convention and only engage in limited theatres of war against other "soldiers" get a reality check. What do you think Kadr and his fellow terrorists were doing? They were going door to door killing innocent people to use fear and violence as a political device to impose their will. Then they were confronted by US soldiers acting as a police operation to protect civilians. What world are you in? Where do you think they were fighting, in neat, designated war zones? Are you that removed from reality I have to explain that? Are you that removed from reality you can't understand how these terrorists operate and where they operate? Hey now, you also want to suggest I depict Kadr as a sub human and that makes me what an evil Jew who finds it easy to do that because I think I am superior? Lol. My point is Kadr is not a human but a sub-human. His being conditioned to turn him into a terrorist stripped him of basic inhibitions. He lost his inhibition to kill. In his world killing is acceptable, the God he worships rewards those who kill and everyone who does not agree is to be tortured, mutilated and or killed. Its a simple primal world of no inhibition. Rape, incest, child molestation, mutilating bodies, cannibalism, every base behavoour when taboos are removed arises. Its why terrorists can kill the way they do and make displays of it. No he is not cuddly. No he is not human. He is a sub species of human because his inhibitions have changed his pscyhe and ability to interact with other humans. That is fact and insulting for being a Jew won't change that. You want to deny what terrorists are and what they have turned into and suggest they are not a sub species of human but cute puppies, continue. They are not. You speak this way because you have never witnessed what they did or do. You don't know their victims and your reality comes from a sound bite. They are not human as we use the term. They ceased being that long ago. They are not misunderstood soldiers or martyrs. You will have to do better than passive couched anti semitic insults with false Jewish myths to change that Big Guy. Its not about me being a Jew, its about terrorists being terrorist and what happens to them to become that way which you won't acknowledge. You live in a fantasy world where boogy men are cute bearded cuddly creatures. The personal attacks I expect. You can't deal with what Kadr really is . Take a good look. If Kadr tried to marry your daughters or show up at your door late one night, alone, you people would piss your pants. Kadr has never been rehabilitated. Is he capable of being rehabilitated? Maybe to an extent. At best he will be a man with severe emotional and personality issues preventing him from being able to adjust to authority figures, making choices, being an individual. He will need to find some sort of environment where someone tells him what to do and there is structure or he will melt down and become violent. They will try medicate him but he will not take the anti-depressant or other anti anxiety medication prescribed. Its not an accident he has a lawyer now that controls all aspects of his life right down to his pissing and eating.Remove that lawyer, his substitute control institution that has temporarly replaced his terrorist handlers and he would melt down. He is not capable of being on his own. He may never be. The likelihood of him reverting to violence against others is high. Lol deny.. Feel morally superior to me and pretend I hate him. Project away with anti semitism and please keep up with the personal references. I love it. I love being chosen by you. Edited August 29, 2015 by Rue Quote
Army Guy Posted August 30, 2015 Report Posted August 30, 2015 So citizens that don't trust the government and soldiers that don't trust the citizenry. There's a combination that often results in disaster. From here on in, the SCC is who and what will be determining whatever else Omar Khadr will need to deal with including re-visiting the past and if the writing isn't clear on which direction it leans in his case I doubt there's much more I can add. Face it, you'll pretty much have to overthrow Ottawa and take over the country to even come close to having your way with him now. Sorry we blew your mission for you, them's the breaks. one could always hope things will be different next time.....As for Omar he's paid his debt, life will go on.....like you said them's the breaks.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted August 30, 2015 Report Posted August 30, 2015 Omar Khadr paid alright but I have little doubt he'll be compensated. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Big Guy Posted September 11, 2015 Report Posted September 11, 2015 Omar has had amny of his restrictions removed. http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/omar-khadr-s-conditions-eased-judge-reserves-decision-on-travel-to-toronto-1.2557953 Not too long until he will have unconditional freedom. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Canada_First Posted September 12, 2015 Report Posted September 12, 2015 (edited) Where does Khadr live? Edited September 12, 2015 by Canada_First Quote
eyeball Posted September 12, 2015 Report Posted September 12, 2015 Earth, just like the rest of us. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Canada_First Posted September 12, 2015 Report Posted September 12, 2015 Earth, just like the rest of us. What city, province, street? Quote
eyeball Posted September 12, 2015 Report Posted September 12, 2015 I have no idea. Edmonton, or a suburb thereof I think. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 12, 2015 Report Posted September 12, 2015 He wintered in 'Gitmo...nice they say. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted September 12, 2015 Report Posted September 12, 2015 What city, province, street? Are you planning to hunt him down? Quote
Canada_First Posted September 12, 2015 Report Posted September 12, 2015 (edited) Are you planning to hunt him down?I now know he's in Edmonton Alberta. Just have to figure out where his lawyer lives. Shouldn't be too hard to find that out. After all a ton of media found it.Does he have round the clock security detail on him when he goes out? Are they actual trained police or just rent a cops? I may want to send a fruit basket. Edited September 12, 2015 by Canada_First Quote
Rue Posted September 12, 2015 Report Posted September 12, 2015 (edited) Eye you know he is not living next door to you-that is the point. If he was and wanted to marry your daughter (assuming you had one) your tone would change awful quick. Easy to be tolerant when it aint in your back yard, Boom! You hear that. Well one day you will and suddenly you will be screaming who let those bad people in. Oh I know people like you. First to claim tolerance and police brutality, first to demand police protection. Edited September 12, 2015 by Rue Quote
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