Men's Rights

[Topaz]

It's a MAN's world is it not? I, too, feel everyone human should be treat equal until there is a very good reason not too. Are there not more men as leaders of countries and therefore if men are dying in war, its a man that put them there. I agree in some cases, men are treated fairly but again, its probably a man that made the laws.

[GostHacked]

It's a MAN's world is it not? I, too, feel everyone human should be treat equal until there is a very good reason not too. Are there not more men as leaders of countries and therefore if men are dying in war, its a man that put them there. I agree in some cases, men are treated fairly but again, its probably a man that made the laws.

Rich men.

[H10]

In the other thread there was some amount of complaining that feminists don't care about men's rights, and so on.

From what I have seen on the internet, much of the "men's rights" talk I have seen is actually just a bunch of guys complaining that women won't go out with them. "Women only want alpha guys" and so on.

And still more of it is less about men's rights, and more about men complaining that women's rights have eroded men's privilege.

However, I am open-minded to the idea that there are men's rights topics that need to be discussed. What are some men's rights issues that there should be a serious conversation about?

-k

Men's right issues

1) Divorce. Women seem to always get the kids and men are expected to pay inflated childcare cost and alimony to women.

2) Abortion. Women can opt out of a pregnancy, men cannot. If want to say its my body and I can abort it without a man's permission. Fine, but men should have a walk away option too. Reproductive rights shouldn't be just for women. If we are to have a truly equal society we need to be given everyone fair options.

3) Prenuptials. Even when men have them, the courts seem to make a litany of exceptions and excuses that apply to no other countracts to ensure that men cannot protect their assets successfully

4) rape and sexual harassment laws. Women want aggressive men and men who will sexually ravage them and "take charge", see 50 shades of grey. Yet if you make an advance on a woman who isn't interested it can result in a sexual assault charge. The same thing goes on in the arena of rape. Women give all kinds of mixed signals, may show up to a man's house at night get naked and then give all kinds of mix signals. Some women don't understand that a large amount of women will not only never aggress and never say yes, they will purposely act disinterested in sex or like they don't want to have sex with you when they are really just testing the males interest and trying to not look like a "s---t". I haven't even touched on the whole, 1 man gets drunk 1 woman gets drunk and woman regrets or forgets the next day she can say rape and ruin the man.

5) Affirmative action, women get affirmative action programs to help them, how is that fair that a white woman who is part of the majority class who is more privileged than any other part of society (including white men) get a leg up over everyone else! White women claim they are a minority, but are the largest group by numbers, the most in middle management, the minority of the homeless, have better employment rates and university rates than most other groups. White women were also part of the privileged rich white oppressor class who oppressed the rest of the poor whites and colored folks in canada.

6)I can understand the move to hire the "best" applicant. Ok that is at least fair. But then women of white skin color go and pull this stunt

John Tory asks committee to reconsider all-male TTC appointments.Mayor John Tory has asked the city’s Civic Appointments Committee to reconsider its recommendation to appoint men to all four citizen seats on the TTC board.

“While I respect the independent public appointments process, I have concerns with any result that does not respect the city’s policy to meet both diversity and gender representation,” said Tory in a statement Friday morning.

http://metronews.ca/news/toronto/1356898/john-tory-asks-committee-to-re-consider-all-male-ttc-appointments/

Ok so now we have female quotas it isn't just the best applicant anymore? How is it more fair to have a gender quota than a racial quota or cultural quota?

7) Most the rape is violent prison rape against men. Most the murders are against men. Men die younger but get less funding for their diseases like prostate cancer but breast cancer is huge.

More examples from rooshv

8) Men or more likely to die on a dangerous job, no one calls for affirmatie action for men in teaching who are underrepresented. No one says we need more male teachers and nurses.

Young boys are drugged and zombified with methamphetamine based pharmaceuticals at three times the rate of girls, all for exhibiting normal male behavior. [1] [2]

— Young boys are methodically excluded from programs that can aid them in science, math, and computer programming, leaving them to fend for themselves. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]

— Young girls are encouraged to invade traditionally male spaces like gaming and sports while men are excluded from female spaces. [1] [2] [3] [4]

— College males are presumed guilty when a female accuses him of rape and then subjected to a kangaroo court that can eject him from college without due process. [1] [2] [3]

— Media spreads propaganda against men by lying about their propensity to commit rape and violence while completely ignoring male victimization at the hands of women or while serving as custodians of the state in prison. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]

— Women are being college educated at greater rates, leading to the relative economic impoverishment of men. [1] [2] [3] [4]

— Women live longer than men. [1]

— State legislation like California’s “Yes Means Yes” bill and New Jersey’s proposed “Rape By Fraud” law explicitly target and punish men for deeds that women will be given a pass for. [1] [2]

— The Violence Against Women Act (VAWA) elevates the worth of a woman’s life above that of men while making every man a hostage in his own home when it comes to his wife being able to imprison him with a single phone call to the police by fraudulently claiming domestic abuse. [1] [2]

— Media treats a woman’s word as sacred truth, far more valuable than the word of a man. This allowed a case like the UVA rape hoax where the media establishment bought a completely fictitious 7-man gang rape story that was wholly invented by a privileged white woman. [1] [2] [3] [4]

— Men are publicly shamed as “sexist” and “creepy” for exhibiting a preference for young beautiful women while women are empowered when they state their male preferences, whatever they happen to be. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]

— Divorce laws and courts give children to the mother by default even if the father showed he was more responsible. The court will also imprison the man if he’s financially destitute and unable to make payments while dragging its feet when the mother is shown to be unfit. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]

[WestCoastRunner]

I have no idea how to reply to this on a mobile device. This platform isn't very mobile friendly.

First off. This thread needs to be broken down into parts. Too much going on.

Men's right issues

1) Divorce. Women seem to always get the kids and men are expected to pay inflated childcare cost and alimony to women.

2) Abortion. Women can opt out of a pregnancy, men cannot. If want to say its my body and I can abort it without a man's permission. Fine, but men should have a walk away option too. Reproductive rights shouldn't be just for women. If we are to have a truly equal society we need to be given everyone fair options.

3) Prenuptials. Even when men have them, the courts seem to make a litany of exceptions and excuses that apply to no other countracts to ensure that men cannot protect their assets successfully

4) rape and sexual harassment laws. Women want aggressive men and men who will sexually ravage them and "take charge", see 50 shades of grey. Yet if you make an advance on a woman who isn't interested it can result in a sexual assault charge. The same thing goes on in the arena of rape. Women give all kinds of mixed signals, may show up to a man's house at night get naked and then give all kinds of mix signals. Some women don't understand that a large amount of women will not only never aggress and never say yes, they will purposely act disinterested in sex or like they don't want to have sex with you when they are really just testing the males interest and trying to not look like a "s---t". I haven't even touched on the whole, 1 man gets drunk 1 woman gets drunk and woman regrets or forgets the next day she can say rape and ruin the man.

5) Affirmative action, women get affirmative action programs to help them, how is that fair that a white woman who is part of the majority class who is more privileged than any other part of society (including white men) get a leg up over everyone else! White women claim they are a minority, but are the largest group by numbers, the most in middle management, the minority of the homeless, have better employment rates and university rates than most other groups. White women were also part of the privileged rich white oppressor class who oppressed the rest of the poor whites and colored folks in canada.

6)I can understand the move to hire the "best" applicant. Ok that is at least fair. But then women of white skin color go and pull this stunt

http://metronews.ca/news/toronto/1356898/john-tory-asks-committee-to-re-consider-all-male-ttc-appointments/

Ok so now we have female quotas it isn't just the best applicant anymore? How is it more fair to have a gender quota than a racial quota or cultural quota?

7) Most the rape is violent prison rape against men. Most the murders are against men. Men die younger but get less funding for their diseases like prostate cancer but breast cancer is huge.

More examples from rooshv

8) Men or more likely to die on a dangerous job, no one calls for affirmatie action for men in teaching who are underrepresented. No one says we need more male teachers and nurses.

[Bonam]

Men's right issues

...

All good points. I'm sure someone will quickly tell you that these issues are "minor", "unavoidable", or that they don't exist at all. Or that men should just "toughen up" and "quit whining" about such issues. Or they'll just call you a "sexist" for even bringing them up.

Reality is most of these are serious issues, and they are only getting worse as society continues to completely ignore them and in many cases continues to modify laws, customs, and incentives to make them worse and worse. That being said, it won't go away until men stand up for themselves in regards to these issues, but the social pressure to not complain about anything, tough everything out, and support feminist causes, is extreme... you pretty much guarantee yourself the life of a hermit if you publicly speak out on any of these issues. If you ever mention any of these, no woman will have anything to do with you and the vast majority of other men will also turn away, for fear of guilt by association and similarly being ostracized from society. Therefore, these issues will have to get much much worse until a significant number of men make any noise about them... the pain of being subjected to discrimination will have to exceed the pain of being single and friendless for life.

[H10]

Yes. It's similar to how white people today should be discriminated against in job selection because 200 years ago unrelated white people, in a different country, held black people as slaves.

None of it makes any sense until you get into the mindset of the social justice activist... but if you do, then you realize that from this point of view, individuals don't matter at all. The rights and lives of individuals can be trampled and destroyed, because the only thing that matters in their narrative is groups and equalizing group results.

There is no affirmative action for blacks in Canada. In the USA affirmative action reasons for implementation have to do with Jim crow post civil war to 1980 laws and policies where the government underfunded black schools destroying the children's abilities to compete with white students who got full funding and were introduced to content at an early age like standardized testing and multiple subjects. Black schools often had no textbooks, were outdoors, had outhouses as opposed to running water etc. Jim Crow also robbed multiple generations of blacks of wealth. 80% of wealth in the USA is passed down generationally (parents to child). when your parents were victims of the tulsa genocide of wilmington genocide, or one of the over 10,000 ethnic cleansings

Affirmative action isn't entirely about slavery. More so about Jim Crow(after slavery but before whites changed the laws to be "legally equal"), and pretty much every black American alive today has been impacted by Jim crow for the worse.

"In the decade immediately preceding World War I, a pattern of racial violence began to emerge in which white mob assaults were directed against entire Black communities. These race riots were the product of white society�s desire to maintain its superiority over Blacks, vent its frustrations in times of distress, and attack those least able to defend themselves. In these race riots, white mobs invaded Black neighborhoods, beat and killed large numbers of Blacks and destroyed Black property. In most instances, Blacks fought back and there were many casualties on both sides, though most of the dead were Black.

Gunnar Myrdal opposed the use of the term �riots� to describe these interracial conflicts. He preferred to call this phenomena �a terrorization or massacre, and (considered) it a magnified, or mass, lynching.�¹³ Race riots occurred in both the North and South, but were more characteristic of the North. They were primarily urban phenomena, while lynching was primarily a rural phenomenon.

Although lynchings were decreasing slightly by the turn of the century, race riots were perceptibly on the increase. Large-scale interracial violence became almost epidemic, as increasing numbers of Blacks migrated to Northern cities. The greatest number of race riots occurred during and just after World War I. During this period the North was concerned with the tremendous migration of Blacks from the South, and the displacement of some whites by Blacks in jobs and residences, which escalated social tensions between the races. The South was concerned about the possible demands of returning Negro soldiers, who were unwilling to slip quietly back into second class citizenship.

The summer of 1919, called �The Red Summer� by James Weldon Johnson, ushered in the greatest period of interracial violence the nation had ever witnessed. During that summer there were twenty-six race riots in such cities as Chicago, Illinois; Washington, D.C.; Elaine, Arkansas; Charleston, South Carolina; Knoxville and Nashville, Tennessee; Longview, Texas; and Omaha, Nebraska. More than one hundred Blacks were killed in these riots, and thousands were wounded and left homeless.

The seven most serious race riots were those which occurred in Wilmington, N. C. (1898), Atlanta, Ga. (1906), Springfield, Ill. (1908), East St. Louis) Ill. (1917), Chicago, Ill. (1919), Tulsa, Okla. (1921) and Detroit, Mich. (1943). What follows is a brief summary of the facts concerning each riot.

http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/1979/2/79.02.04.x.html

When your grandparents and parents were run off their land that was stolen by racist that affects your parents and you. They have to pay rent on land they use to own. That takes money away that could have sent the grandkids to private school, to get a tutor, prep schools etc.. It also affects the people's behaviour. They spend the money as soon as they get it, because you never know when a mob of whites are going to come take everything anyways.

Note, none of these white criminals ever saw a handcuff, an indictment, an arrest. No black was ever compensated for their internments in tulsa. And often the threat of the white mafia burning down your neighbour was enough to run most people out of town from fear of being murdered. So even if just 8 people were killed. Those were marching orders to the thousands, get out or your next.

[H10]

All good points. I'm sure someone will quickly tell you that these issues are "minor", "unavoidable", or that they don't exist at all. Or that men should just "toughen up" and "quit whining" about such issues. Or they'll just call you a "sexist" for even bringing them up.

Reality is most of these are serious issues, and they are only getting worse as society continues to completely ignore them and in many cases continues to modify laws, customs, and incentives to make them worse and worse. That being said, it won't go away until men stand up for themselves in regards to these issues, but the social pressure to not complain about anything, tough everything out, and support feminist causes, is extreme... you pretty much guarantee yourself the life of a hermit if you publicly speak out on any of these issues. If you ever mention any of these, no woman will have anything to do with you and the vast majority of other men will also turn away, for fear of guilt by association and similarly being ostracized from society. Therefore, these issues will have to get much much worse until a significant number of men make any noise about them... the pain of being subjected to discrimination will have to exceed the pain of being single and friendless for life.

Yeah man up. and I forget sex harassment laws. Women who check out "hawt" guys aren't sexually assaulting him. Men who checkout hot girls= sex harassment.

Men will just continue to leave the corporate world and stop marrying and opting out. They will start firms and not hire females to avoid sex assault claims altogether. Why marry and risk being screwed when you can marry a girl in Saudi Arabia who can't screw you due to saudi laws?

[Bonam]

Men will just continue to leave the corporate world and stop marrying and opting out. They will start firms and not hire females to avoid sex assault claims altogether.

If your firm grows beyond a few people, that is not an option, since there are laws regarding gender quotas, discrimination in hiring, etc. And just because there aren't women at work doesn't mean you're safe from sex assault claims... they can still happen in your life outside of work. Heck, you never even have to touch a woman to have your life ruined by a sex assault claim. Any accusation can ruin your life since unlike for all other crimes, the presumption of innocence has largely been tossed out the window. Even if you don't get convicted by the court, your life is still ruined. And any woman can accuse you if she wants to, even if you've never been within a mile of each other. Got a male coworker who is your rival for that next promotion? He can ask his wife or his female friend to accuse you of sexual assault, or if he really wants to get rid of you for life, he can get his underage daughter to do it. And you're all done, since no evidence whatsoever is necessary besides the personal testimony of the alleged victim.

This might be rare in the typical workplace, but seems to be commonplace in politics, where sex assault/misconduct claims always happen to conveniently surface during election campaigns... how many are real, and how many are just smears from the opposing side? Or consider "enemies of the government" like Assange, who get trumped up sex assault charges leveled against them. How many poor women, single mothers, etc, would be too proud to make a sex assault charge against some random stranger if a man in a suit offered her $10 million to do it? Especially considering that there is no punishment whatsoever for making a false accusation.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Bonam

[WestCoastRunner]

How many poor women, single mothers, etc, would be too proud to make a sex assault charge against some random stranger if a man in a suit offered her $10 million to do it? Especially considering that there is no punishment whatsoever for making a false accusation.

This statement is sickening to say the least.

[Bonam]

This statement is sickening to say the least.

The reality that it could happen is more sickening. There are plenty of people out there, both men and women, willing to do immoral or illegal things in exchange for large (or even not so large) sums of money.

[H10]

If your firm grows beyond a few people, that is not an option, since there are laws regarding gender quotas, discrimination in hiring, etc. And just because there aren't women at work doesn't mean you're safe from sex assault claims... they can still happen in your life outside of work. Heck, you never even have to touch a woman to have your life ruined by a sex assault claim. Any accusation can ruin your life since unlike for all other crimes, the presumption of innocence has largely been tossed out the window. Even if you don't get convicted by the court, your life is still ruined. And any woman can accuse you if she wants to, even if you've never been within a mile of each other. Got a male coworker who is your rival for that next promotion? He can ask his wife or his female friend to accuse you of sexual assault, or if he really wants to get rid of you for life, he can get his underage daughter to do it. And you're all done, since no evidence whatsoever is necessary besides the personal testimony of the alleged victim.

This might be rare in the typical workplace, but seems to be commonplace in politics, where sex assault/misconduct claims always happen to conveniently surface during election campaigns... how many are real, and how many are just smears from the opposing side? Or consider "enemies of the government" like Assange, who get trumped up sex assault charges leveled against them. How many poor women, single mothers, etc, would be too proud to make a sex assault charge against some random stranger if a man in a suit offered her $10 million to do it? Especially considering that there is no punishment whatsoever for making a false accusation.

Untrue, you can simply say you can't find a qualified female applicant. Also if you don't hire a female, there is no one working there to sue you for gender discrimination. You can just say you hired the best applicant available or your friends. Cronyism isn't illegal. I don't think there are any gender quotas as of yet.

Its true that discriminatory hiring doesn't end chance of sex assault claim just the workplace ones. I am not saying I advocate it, nor would I do it, I am simply saying there are plenty of people who ARE doing this.

Hey you identified another way men are discriminated against. Men who run for office have their sexual histories brought up and dragged through the mud and its used as a weapon against them. But women who sleep around like belinda stronach don't

[cybercoma]

The reality that it could happen is more sickening.

It's funny that MRAs and MRA apologists are so terribly concerned about what could happen in theory, but show not even half the care for things that are happening objectively to women here and now. They're completely dismissive of what's going on in front of their faces over possibilities that could happen.

Keep fighting the "good" fight though. Priorities. smh.

Edited May 23, 2015 by cybercoma

[Hal 9000]

It's funny that MRAs and MRA apologists are so terribly concerned about what could happen in theory, but show not even half the care for things that are happening objectively to women here and now. They're completely dismissive of what's going on in front of their faces over possibilities that could happen.

Keep fighting the "good" fight though. Priorities. smh.

Have you taken the quote out of context? If not, do you mind explaining further?

[Michael Hardner]

Its true that discriminatory hiring doesn't end chance of sex assault claim just the workplace ones. I am not saying I advocate it, nor would I do it, I am simply saying there are plenty of people who ARE doing this.

Doing what exactly ? Do you have a cite ?

Hey you identified another way men are discriminated against. Men who run for office have their sexual histories brought up and dragged through the mud and its used as a weapon against them. But women who sleep around like belinda stronach don't

Again - do you have a cite that candidates today (men or women for that matter) have their "sexual histories" brought up ? Where does that happen in Canada in 2015 ?

[WestCoastRunner]

The reality that it could happen is more sickening. There are plenty of people out there, both men and women, willing to do immoral or illegal things in exchange for large (or even not so large) sums of money.

'It could happen'? Come on, what kind of a post is this?

[WestCoastRunner]

Doing what exactly ? Do you have a cite ?

Again - do you have a cite that candidates today (men or women for that matter) have their "sexual histories" brought up ? Where does that happen in Canada in 2015 ?

This is exactly my point about posts that rant on and on without any corroborating facts or links and yet, they are allowed to remain and they in fact do not get deleted contrary to forum guidelines.

[-1=e^ipi]

It's a MAN's world is it not? I, too, feel everyone human should be treat equal until there is a very good reason not too. Are there not more men as leaders of countries and therefore if men are dying in war, its a man that put them there. I agree in some cases, men are treated fairly but again, its probably a man that made the laws.

Both women and men have agency in creating the world we currently live in. Neither gender is entirely to blame.

no woman will have anything to do with you

That's silly. There are plenty of women that support men's rights. Example: Honey Badger Brigade.

Men will just continue to leave the corporate world and stop marrying and opting out.

This is exactly what we are seeing with MGTOW and Soshoku-danshi. I certainly have no desire to have a family, date, marry, have sex, etc. I plan to remain a virgin forever. Although this may be due to being asexual; though my asexuality may have been induced based on the crazy environment in which I have been raised.

Edited May 24, 2015 by -1=e^ipi

[H10]

Both women and men have agency in creating the world we currently live in. Neither gender is entirely to blame.

That's silly. There are plenty of women that support men's rights. Example: Honey Badger Brigade.

This is exactly what we are seeing with MGTOW and Soshoku-danshi. I certainly have no desire to have a family, date, marry, have sex, etc. I plan to remain a virgin forever. Although this may be due to being asexual; though my asexuality may have been induced based on the crazy environment in which I have been raised.

In the past people would laugh at you, but not anymore, I can't blame any man who has no desire to date, marry or have sex etc. It is just a huge risk not worth it. Its like putting your balls on an anvil, and then giving a girl a hammer and another man is offering hundreds of thousands of dollars to smash your balls with the hammer, and hoping to not get hurt. I only have sexual interactions with foreign women in foreign countries, so if any false sex assault claims are made it won't hurt my job prospects in Canada (no companies do an international criminal search). And yes I travel alot. I have zero desire for Canadian women. Even if you could find one who was interested, which I encounter many all the time, the odds are she'd screw me over the first chance she got. Its what feminism teaches them, in the universities they teach about how men oppressed women. My people never oppressed women, my ancestors come from a matriarchal society (society where women oppressed men), but do you think the feminist care? No, I have a penis so I am guilty by association,, because rich white western men "oppressed" rich white women they married by "banning" them from working in a dangerous era where people died all the time on the job, o poor victims.

[-1=e^ipi]

my ancestors come from a matriarchal society (society where women oppressed men), but do you think the feminist care?

They probably don't recognize the existence of matriarchal societies. It doesn't agree with their 'The Patriarchy' narrative.

[Michael Hardner]

This is exactly my point about posts that rant on and on without any corroborating facts or links and yet, they are allowed to remain and they in fact do not get deleted contrary to forum guidelines.

There's no rule that says your post will be deleted if you don't provide a cite. On the other hand, I just asked for a cite and the poster went ahead and posted on the thread, ignoring my request. So the claim that male candidates have their history brought up in campaigns now is just an unsupported claim, a personal anecdote without confirmation - not much value to that. Do you see ?

[Black Dog]

Men's right issues

1) Divorce. Women seem to always get the kids and men are expected to pay inflated childcare cost and alimony to women.

Always? Cites? Stats?

2) Abortion. Women can opt out of a pregnancy, men cannot. If want to say its my body and I can abort it without a man's permission. Fine, but men should have a walk away option too. Reproductive rights shouldn't be just for women. If we are to have a truly equal society we need to be given everyone fair options.

men have the walk away option and exercise it all the time. What world do you live in?

3) Prenuptials. Even when men have them, the courts seem to make a litany of exceptions and excuses that apply to no other countracts to ensure that men cannot protect their assets successfully

Cites? Stats?

4) rape and sexual harassment laws. Women want aggressive men and men who will sexually ravage them and "take charge", see 50 shades of grey. Yet if you make an advance on a woman who isn't interested it can result in a sexual assault charge.

I know a lot of men enjoy mixed martial arts, but when I walked up and put this guy in a Tap Out shirton the street in a chokehold, he got mad and called the cops. MIXED SIGNALS AMIRITE

The same thing goes on in the arena of rape. Women give all kinds of mixed signals, may show up to a man's house at night get naked and then give all kinds of mix signals. Some women don't understand that a large amount of women will not only never aggress and never say yes, they will purposely act disinterested in sex or like they don't want to have sex with you when they are really just testing the males interest and trying to not look like a "s---t".

So, in your world, if a woman expresses any level of interest in a man, she's obligated to have sex with him?

more examples from rooshv

Whoops just saw this. Since you're a disciple of that ridiculous walking pile of garbage in human form, I'll just step away lest I get some of your stink on me.

The above really highlights the problem with talking about men's rights which is the men's rights "movement" is fronted by creeps, kooks and nutjobs whose rancid views on women overshadow any legitimate issues that might come up. In fact, it's not clear there's anything more to the "movement" than creeps, kooks and nutjobs. It's like second wave feminism led by Valerie Solanas instead of Betty Friedan and Gloria Steinem. Frankly, it's impossible to look at the men's rights "movement" and not think of this.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Black Dog

[H10]

Always? Cites? Stats?

men have the walk away option and exercise it all the time. What world do you live in?

Cites? Stats?

I know a lot of men enjoy mixed martial arts, but when I walked up and put this guy in a Tap Out shirton the street in a chokehold, he got mad and called the cops. MIXED SIGNALS AMIRITE

So, in your world, if a woman expresses any level of interest in a man, she's obligated to have sex with him?

Whoops just saw this. Since you're a disciple of that ridiculous walking pile of garbage in human form, I'll just step away lest I get some of your stink on me.

The above really highlights the problem with talking about men's rights which is the men's rights "movement" is fronted by creeps, kooks and nutjobs whose rancid views on women overshadow any legitimate issues that might come up. It's like second wave feminism led by Valerie Solanas instead of Betty Friedan and Gloria Steinem. Frankly, it's impossible to look at the men's rights "movement" and not think of this.

"

Across a wide range of jurisdictions the estimates are that mothers receive primary custody 68-88% of the time, fathers receive primary custody 8-14%, and equal residential custody is awarded in only 2-6% of the cases."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-hughes/are-custody-decisions-bia_b_870709.html

If men walk away they get thrown in jail for being a dead beat dad of a kid they didn't want. If men cannot afford their kid, they go to jail for being a deadbeat. If women cannot pay they get a cheque from the government and welfare to take care of the kid or child support.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jefflanders/2013/04/02/five-reasons-your-prenup-might-be-invalid/

In summary, in order for a prenup to be effective, both parties must have their own separate attorney. Plus, the prenup must be:

• Written. Oral prenups are not valid.
• Executed voluntarily and without coercion. A prenup that’s signed the day before the wedding can be invalidated.
• Executed only after full disclosure. If you hide assets and/or liabilities, you run the risk of invalidating the prenup.
• Conscionable. A prenup cannot be unconscionable. In other words, the prenup could be invalidated if the agreement is too lopsided, with one party awarded almost everything and the other receiving only a pittance.
• Executed by both parties, preferably in front of witnesses (or a notary). Some attorneys even recommend having a judge witness the signing to make sure that neither party was coerced into signing.
• Written in a recordable format, such as a real estate deed

And this is an understatement, people's prenups get thrown out all the time for the softest reasons.

A divorce judge will first look at whether the prenuptial agreement is unfair as compared to what the court would do without the agreement. For example, has one of the spouses given up property or alimony rights that would have been available during a divorce without the existence of a prenuptial agreement? If there is a significant difference in what the court would do with and without the existence of the agreement, then the court can determine that the agreement is unfair.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stann-givens/when-a-prenup-gets-thrown_b_5542093.html

I am not talking a girl with a shirt on. I am talking how men are subjected to the whims of female fancy whether or not ann act is sexual assault. Women want a man who will be sexually aggressive towards them "if they desire him" yet it isn't clear to men when this is the case. it isn't the case of a man going overboard there is a limit. You can't choke a girl out or keep going when she clearly uninterested. When you go to Europe you see a difference. A man will walk up to a girl and start humping her, if she isn't interested she walks away or whatever. in Canada, she calls security and police and he goes to jail for misreading her signals. Big difference. Then they claim canadian men are boring, yet they are the ones who have killed the environment for fun.

A woman's isn't obligated to have sex with a man. But it is unfair that there are such harsh and punishing laws against men who make honest mistake. A woman can show up to my house and dance around in her under wear jump on top of me and grab my crotch, but if I do the same to her, she can at any time claim sex assault and rape claiming she didn't want to be touched. Take the ivy leagueu girl with the mattress who claims rape, she claims she was raped because she agreed to vaginal sex, but then her partner stuck it in her rectum and it was rape because she never said ok to the rectum. Now it was probably just an honest misunderstanding, he probably thought it was what she wanted, he didn't go there to rape her. It'd be like claiming theft if you told the gardener to remove all your bushes and he removed a shrub because he got carried away and they look alike to him.

Woman should be more clear in this field. If women truly want men who ask their permission before every act of intimacy, then they should stop wanting dominant and stop rewarding men who don't ask and stop reading 50 shades of grey.

[Black Dog]

I am not talking a girl with a shirt on. I am talking how men are subjected to the whims of female fancy whether or not ann act is sexual assault. Women want a man who will be sexually aggressive towards them "if they desire him" yet it isn't clear to men when this is the case.

If there's doubt, you could, if you actually end up with a real girl someday, try using these things we call "words".

it isn't the case of a man going overboard there is a limit. You can't choke a girl out or keep going when she clearly uninterested. When you go to Europe you see a difference. A man will walk up to a girl and start humping her, if she isn't interested she walks away or whatever. in Canada, she calls security and police and he goes to jail for misreading her signals. Big difference.

A man who walks up to a woman at random and starts, as you charmingly put it, humping her deserves to be pepper sprayed and smashed in the groin with something sharp.

Then they claim canadian men are boring, yet they are the ones who have killed the environment for fun.

Sexual assault=fun. We got a live one here.

A woman's isn't obligated to have sex with a man. But it is unfair that there are such harsh and punishing laws against men who make honest mistake.

Tough s**T.

A woman can show up to my house and dance around in her under wear jump on top of me and grab my crotch, but if I do the same to her, she can at any time claim sex assault and rape claiming she didn't want to be touched.

Ever been to a strip club or heard of a lap dance?

Take the ivy leagueu girl with the mattress who claims rape, she claims she was raped because she agreed to vaginal sex, but then her partner stuck it in her rectum and it was rape because she never said ok to the rectum. Now it was probably just an honest misunderstanding, he probably thought it was what she wanted, he didn't go there to rape her.

That's...not the story, but anyway: if your partner agrees to do X and you do Y without consent, that's assault/rape.

It'd be like claiming theft if you told the gardener to remove all your bushes and he removed a shrub because he got carried away and they look alike to him.

That guy would be a really terrible gardener. But that analogy does say a lot about you.

Woman should be more clear in this field. If women truly want men who ask their permission before every act of intimacy, then they should stop wanting dominant and stop rewarding men who don't ask and stop reading 50 shades of grey.

Do you know what a fantasy is? Do you know that reading about being sexually dominated and even fantasizing about it is not the same thing as actually wanting it?

Edited May 27, 2015 by Michael Hardner
profanity

[-1=e^ipi]

men have the walk away option and exercise it all the time. What world do you live in?

One where consent to have sex = consent to have children for men, but consent to have sex != consent to have children for women. Heck, if a man is raped by a woman, and the woman chooses to have a child using the rape victim's sperm, the rape victim can end up sending child support to his rapist for the next 20 years.

The above really highlights the problem with talking about men's rights which is the men's rights "movement" is fronted by creeps, kooks and nutjobs whose rancid views on women overshadow any legitimate issues that might come up.

The existence of crazy people in a movement = movement is somehow legitimized. What kind of logic is that?

[Black Dog]

One where consent to have sex = consent to have children for men, but consent to have sex != consent to have children for women.

Given the biological differences involved, I'm sure you can figure out why that double standard exists.

Heck, if a man is raped by a woman, and the woman chooses to have a child using the rape victim's sperm, the rape victim can end up sending child support to his rapist for the next 20 years.

Oh yeah? Really? This has happened?

The existence of crazy people in a movement = movement is somehow legitimized. What kind of logic is that?

The same logic you and your gramner gate bros use when discussing "Social Justice Warriors" and feminists. Difference being, if there's a serious, sober advocate for men's rights among the MRA community who isn't driven by a creepy antipathy towards women, I haven't heard of him.