Men's Rights

[Black Dog]

Sure it is. It is called anecdotal evidence.

It doesn't support your claim.

My claim was that denying men's issues is a contributing factor towards male suicide.

Your claim was that it was a contributing factor in this specific suicide.

Proof?

See above re: suicide and impulse. It follows, then, that if you suddenly are seized by the urge to top yourself, you'll use what is nearest at hand be it a gun, pills, or a big fucking bridge.

And by accessibility, do you mean accessibility to things like sympathy and empathy, or people not dismissing your concerns?

No dummy.

It is both. One of the ways society conditions men to not show emotions is by not caring about those emotions.

And how do they do that? By telling men that showing emotions is womanly and weak.

On firearms, male suicide rates are much higher in many different countries, even in countries where access to guns is very difficult (example: Japan).

Japan is a extremely conservative (compared to western countries) and patriarchal culture where suicide is literally accepted as a viable solution. I'm aware that the gap exists in other countries as well where the most common method of suicide for men is the next most lethal: hanging.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Black Dog

[-1=e^ipi]

It doesn't support your claim.

So you admit it is evidence?

Your claim was that it was a contributing factor in this specific suicide.

Indeed it likely was.

It follows, then, that if you suddenly are seized by the urge to top yourself, you'll use what is nearest at hand be it a gun, pills, or a big fucking bridge.

As a person who has had such an urge, I disagree. You think about which method you should do, maybe research which method is best, then you construct a plan.

And how do they do that? By telling men that showing emotions is womanly and weak.

That is one way.

Japan is a extremely conservative (compared to western countries) and patriarchal culture

I know, they have the same lie of the patriarchy there too.

Must be why Japanese men are less willing to get married than Japanese women. Or why the soshoku danshi phenomenon exists. Because of the 'patriarchy'.

where suicide is literally accepted as a viable solution.

Of course it is. Because memetic evolution favours societies that do not value the lives of men very highly and societies that encourage men to kill themselves for the greater good.

[Black Dog]

So you admit it is evidence?

Ok Lionel Hutz.

Indeed it likely was.

You don't even have anecdotal evidence to support this claim. It's a complete fabrication. Pretty gross to turn this poor dead kid into a pawn for your personal crusade against feminism.

As a person who has had such an urge, I disagree. You think about which method you should do, maybe research which method is best, then you construct a plan.

And did you consider how much sympathy you were likely to get?

And "having the urge" is a lot different from "deciding to follow through."

I know, they have the same lie of the patriarchy there too.

Well this has nothing to do with anything at all.

Must be why Japanese men are less willing to get married than Japanese women. Or why the soshoku danshi phenomenon exists. Because of the 'patriarchy'.

You're going off the track here. Yes let's look to the culture that gave the world tentacle porn for guidance.

Of course it is. Because memetic evolution favours societies that do not value the lives of men very highly and societies that encourage men to kill themselves for the greater good.

Aaaaaannnnnd we're in the ditch.

[-1=e^ipi]

Pretty gross to turn this poor dead kid into a pawn for your personal crusade against feminism.

Grosser to dismiss the male suicide problem and its causes.

And did you consider how much sympathy you were likely to get?

Yes, you consider the implications of failed suicide attempts.

And "having the urge" is a lot different from "deciding to follow through."

So essentially, I'd have to be dead to be taken seriously, is that it?

Well this has nothing to do with anything at all.

The lie of the patriarchy has nothing to do with a men's rights thread?

You're going off the track here.

No I'm not. This is a men's rights thread. And you brought Japan into it.

Aaaaaannnnnd we're in the ditch.

Yes, because evolutionary arguments to explain why gender roles are the way they are is clearly a ditch. *sarcasm*

[Black Dog]

Grosser to dismiss the male suicide problem and its causes.

Which no one has done, but keep harping on that strawman!

Yes, you consider the implications of failed suicide attempts.

I doubt that.

So essentially, I'd have to be dead to be taken seriously, is that it?

Or, you know, have actually attempted suicide and failed. Lots of people have suicidal urges you know.

The lie of the patriarchy has nothing to do with a men's rights thread?

No idea what you're talking about.

No I'm not. This is a men's rights thread. And you brought Japan into it.

Uh: no I didn't.

Yes, because evolutionary arguments to explain why gender roles are the way they are is clearly a ditch. *sarcasm*

They are when they are specious.

[-1=e^ipi]

Or, you know, have actually attempted suicide and failed. Lots of people have suicidal urges you know.

See, I wouldn't have failed. I would have jumped off a building.

Uh: no I didn't.

My mistake.

[Rue]

-1 I support your arguments. I defer to them. The snarky responses to them does not shock me. Lol.

For the same reasons there are issues that have particular negative impact on females they would not have on males, the inverse holds through

which is your logical point.

As well issues that may impact differently on one depending on their gender might also have the same differentiation because of age, body size, cultural/ethnic, socio-economic values, etc.

In any discussion on human behavior where to draw the line between predisposed genetic traits and learned behavior is a crap shoot.

Science now can clearly show the water make-up of a woman compared to a man (women have more water) in itself can cause huge differences in behavior because of the influence of the moon's gravitational pull, and how food, medication is absorbed.

The chemical differences in the make-up of male and female brains and the differences in physical structure because of those chemical differences is fascinating.

The examination of lesbian brains showing coil like structure seen in male and not female brains for example, threw a huge wrench in the belief homosexuality was simply learned.

We know testosterone in men and women can cause far different reactions. Likewise estrogen.

Its actually quite fascinating to try see what the differences are and why.

Bottom line is we know for sure women's brain cells deteriorate more slowly than men's as we age, particularly after the age of 40.

We also now know this idiotic subjective categorization of humans by their secondary physical characteristics (lip size, skin colour, hair texture) is of no scientific consequence and what makes us genetically similar and more prone to certain diseases is not as simple as skin colour.

There was a time Philip Rushton out of the Clarke Institute in Toronto championed the belief Asians were the smartest, then whites, then blacks, based on his study of brain size which eventually was repudiated.

I myself think certain diseases and illnesses whether they be organic or somatic are clearly different in men and women and that is crucial in understanding types of treatments. Since most medication is based on male absorbing capacity not female, of course women have to think twice when taking certain medications.

All that said I have no idea why anyone would challenge what you say. Anthropology, social psychology, biology even backs up what you say.

Now in terms of should men have rights or women have rights based on their particular gender caused issues I can only speak for myself.

I think it important to understand both how our biology and environment impacts on men and women differently for proper responses but in terms of rights, I don't want any myself. I mean I had a Bar Miztvah but I don't think it made any difference in celebrating my passage into manhood.

I am not big on male bonding. Most men I know burp too much to bond with.

Men's rights. Well the one I think is important is the urinal rule of keeping one space unless its an emergency because I am not into being sprayed.

I also don't want to run around campfires naked with other men. Women maybe.

[overthere]

I also don't want to run around campfires naked with other men. Women maybe.

I've done both. It never ends well, somebody always ends up in the fire and the chances that it was me are good.

I checked with She Who Must Be Obeyed about Mens Rights.

It turns out I don't have any, which I was pretty sure of already.

[Guest]

I've done both. It never ends well, somebody always ends up in the fire and the chances that it was me are good.

I checked with She Who Must Be Obeyed about Mens Rights.

It turns out I don't have any, which I was pretty sure of already.

So much for not telling...

[The_Squid]

From what I have seen on the internet, much of the "men's rights" talk I have seen is actually just a bunch of guys complaining that women won't go out with them. "Women only want alpha guys" and so on.

And still more of it is less about men's rights, and more about men complaining that women's rights have eroded men's privilege.

I have so many rights, I don't know what to do with them! Any man who thinks he lacks rights is probably just angry about not being able to get laid cuz he's a dick. Instead of looking inward, he's blaming women for his lack of a sex-life.

I have some tips:

be confident,

stay fit

dress well

have a sense of humour

don't be a dick

You will never complain about your lack of rights ever again if you follow my 5 easy steps!

Edited December 5, 2015 by The_Squid

[-1=e^ipi]

Any man who thinks he lacks rights is probably just angry about not being able to get laid cuz he's a dick.

I am asexual. Many men that support men's rights are gay. I'm also not sure where transpeople fit into your claim.

But way to reinforce traditional gender roles where men are not supposed to complain about anything or have their concerns taken seriously.

[The_Squid]

I am asexual. Many men that support men's rights are gay. I'm also not sure where transpeople fit into your claim.

But way to reinforce traditional gender roles where men are not supposed to complain about anything or have their concerns taken seriously.

Where did I say that the men are straight and wanted to be laid by women?

[-1=e^ipi]

Where did I say that the men are straight and wanted to be laid by women?

Okay...

There are asexuals that support men's rights. So your claim does not hold.

[The_Squid]

Okay...

There are asexuals that support men's rights. So your claim does not hold.

Asexuals get laid often?

Sounds like they don't.... which explains their anger.... why they're angry at women, I don't know...

Edited December 5, 2015 by The_Squid

[Rue]

Damn it happened. I agree with Squid.

Also I am not sure what asexual means. Its kind of hard to be asexual. You either have gonads or you don't.

Asexual would suggest no gonads so unless -1 you castrated yourself I am not sure what you mean.

Its impossible to have no sex organs unless you were born without them. If you were born without them ok got it.

Otherwise if you choose to repress your sexual desires that's another issue. That's a personal choice. Its got nothing to do with men's rights.

Sorry I have to agree with Squid. I don't need a collective to deal with my gender issues. I could see why gays formed a collective or

women. Men, well if they feel they need a collective that's their choice.

I only speak for me. I just don't need to join in with other penises. We het too hung up on the dumbest things starting with zippers when we

begin flapping them about.

[-1=e^ipi]

Also I am not sure what asexual means.

It is a sexual orientation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asexuality

Otherwise if you choose to repress your sexual desires that's another issue.

I had no such desires to begin with.

Edited December 6, 2015 by -1=e^ipi

[eyeball]

Desires simply fade and go away too.

[Scott Mayers]

Equality of opportunity is optimal. Equality of outcome is manufactured.

This 'equality of opportunity' though, is often merely a perception only. For instance, one can say that I have an equal fair right to buy a Rolls Royce. While technically this may be 'true', if my actual real initial circumstances places the bar so high if I start out so impoverished, it lacks a sincerity to my real opportunities.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Scott Mayers