Target is shutting down its Canadian operation.

[bush_cheney2004]

.... For whatever reason out there, Canadians can't get the deals that the can in the US and Target over promised and under delivered on that.

That's true, but I never understood why Canadian consumers expected an identical experience to what is available "in the states". If it was that easy, all Canadian retail would have been the same years ago.

[GostHacked]

Two pages on this already ? I didn't think people cared so much.

But the economy is doing so well!?

[GostHacked]

I'm surprised you didn't blame Mitt Romney.

Wait, he ran for elections right? What's Mr. Baine Capital up to these days? Just dropped off the face of the earth? He still relevant?

[BubberMiley]

That's true, but I never understood why Canadian consumers expected an identical experience to what is available "in the states". If it was that easy, all Canadian retail would have been the same years ago.

I don't think they did, but they expected stocked shelves, attractive presentation, and attractive products like they get at Target in the U.S. and at many other stores in Canada. Walmart was able to seamlessly enter the Canadian market even though they weren't able to offer any products that were only available in the U.S. before. But they had stock and lots of it and were consistent and reliable with their pricing. Target in Canada would be remarkably cheap for some things and then ridiculously expensive for others. I noticed last week that milk was $1 a litre more than everywhere else---something I thought was illegal under milk price regulations. Edited January 15, 2015 by BubberMiley

[Big Guy]

What is going to happen to those 17,000 employees? I suspect that another chain will buy up those buildings and most of the employees will have a job. Perhaps the new owners might be Canadian and the money and the profits may stay in Canada.

You want your money to stay and work in your community? - then buy local.

[The_Squid]

Once again, the left gets what it wants. Take that big corporation! I'm sure they're hoping WalMart is next.

ummmm.... what did "the left" have to do with Target pulling out of Canada?

[Derek 2.0]

We're talking about Target...an American corporation. That's why I am here....the forum is obsessively slathered with America ! Target's exit from Canada helps to restore some balance in The Force.

I think it speaks to management and piss-poor marketing.......in my opinion Target jumped in both feet and failed. Contrasted with retail chain Cabela's, which has taken a gradual expansion into the Canadian market, opening one store at a time, well only expanding further once each stores shows profitability.

Big American chains can work, well passing on savings to Canadian consumers, if they take a gradual approach.........Target just replaced the failing Zellers chain with much the same business model.......I expect Sears won't be far behind.

[bush_cheney2004]

I think there were false assumptions and expectations on both sides of the border. Target and Super Target stores provide a different shopping experience than Walmart, and this differentiation is appreciated by many consumers in the U.S. It is fair to say that I am a biased 'homer' and stockholder, but a happy one now that this mistake has been recognized and corrected. Canada was quicksand for Target Corp....epic fail.

[BubberMiley]

I suspect that another chain will buy up those buildings and most of the employees will have a job.

That's unlikely. Even if there were another chain on the horizon willing to take that risk, they would want their own employees. I don't see another U.S. retail giant taking that risk any time soon. Walmart and Loblaws and HBC are already well entrenched and any expansion would be completely redundant. The stores will be carved up into smaller units for smaller stores, or converted into other operations, or they'll sit empty for years to come.

The department store has been declining for years and the Internet is just accelerating that process.

But I'm glad I'm not one of their sucker stockholders. The company is likely too clueless to recognize that their U.S. operations are in just as much jeopardy, and the losses are likely to continue until they finally pack it in.

Edited January 15, 2015 by BubberMiley

[bush_cheney2004]

Big American chains can work, well passing on savings to Canadian consumers, if they take a gradual approach.........Target just replaced the failing Zellers chain with much the same business model.......I expect Sears won't be far behind.

OK...but Sears and Sears Canada were and are failing for a different reason. Target should have known better and has the resources to avoid mistakes like this. Stockholders are not happy with how things have been going.

[Derek 2.0]

OK...but Sears and Sears Canada were and are failing for a different reason. Target should have known better and has the resources to avoid mistakes like this. Stockholders are not happy with how things have been going.

With Target, as I said, they went too fast.......had they have opened say 1/3rd the number of stores, well ensuring appealing products and establishing viable supply chains they might not be in this fix.......fault is to be found with Target itself, not the Canadian consumer.......As said, it was a warmed over Zellers, in largely warmed over Zellers stores with a dab of paint and new lighting, selling largely Zellers like crap.........Canadians can buy crap at Walmart, which is clearly successful in Canada.

[BubberMiley]

Canadians can buy crap at Walmart, which is clearly successful in Canada.

And Walmart had a similarly huge launch, but they just did it correctly and ensured their shelves were stocked. Target had plenty of time and money to create an adequate distribution system for the number of stores they had, but for some reason they never managed to get that together. If they had fewer stores that were full of product, they might have been more successful. But I have a feeling they were so incompetent that, even with fewer stores, they would have still been empty.

[Derek 2.0]

And Walmart had a similarly huge launch, but they just did it correctly and ensured their shelves were stocked. Target had plenty of time and money to create an adequate distribution system for the number of stores they had, but for some reason they never managed to get that together. If they had fewer stores that were full of product, they might have been more successful. But I have a feeling they were so incompetent that, even with fewer stores, they would have still been empty.

I agree, and don't really know what their expectations were......

[overthere]

What is going to happen to those 17,000 employees? I suspect that another chain will buy up those buildings and most of the employees will have a job. Perhaps the new owners might be Canadian and the money and the profits may stay in Canada.

You want your money to stay and work in your community? - then buy local.

Buy local!

Shut down the Internet!

[guyser]

Seems Target followed the Starbucks experiment in Australia.

Announce a huge influx of stores

Announce they are American

Announce 'its what youve been waiting for'

And totally crap the bed. Hubris, arrogance and sheer stupidity. Lousy products and pricing all around

Didnt market research what the people wanted

Just opened the door and thought, hey we are American , come buy from us.

Didn listen to the local hirees....cuz ya know...you are dumb and we arent.

$2B in losses. Ouch .

Edited January 15, 2015 by Guyser2

[bush_cheney2004]

...Canadians can buy crap at Walmart, which is clearly successful in Canada.

Agreed....and Americans can also buy crap at Walmart, overstuffed to the endcaps and in the aisles with cheap merchandise. Targets in the U.S. do not duplicate the Walmart experience. They are neater....cleaner....less stuff by design, sometimes with higher prices.

[The_Squid]

Target did a poor job of entering the Canadian market and paid the price...

The free market has spoken.

[Wilber]

Agreed....and Americans can also buy crap at Walmart, overstuffed to the endcaps and in the aisles with cheap merchandise. Targets in the U.S. do not duplicate the Walmart experience. They are neater....cleaner....less stuff by design, sometimes with higher prices.

I agree, they are quite different. My daughter really likes their kids clothes.

[Peter F]

Once again, the left gets what it wants. Take that big corporation! I'm sure they're hoping WalMart is next.

I'm pretty sure the right failed to spend money at Target too.

[Argus]

That's true, but I never understood why Canadian consumers expected an identical experience to what is available "in the states". If it was that easy, all Canadian retail would have been the same years ago.

I think they expected a department store to have a better selection than small stores, and it didn't. It's menswear section was pathetic. Any of the small stores on the mall, like TIp Top Tailor had more of a selection than Target. It had very little hardware, a tiny electronics sections with way less selection than The Source in the same mall, no furniture, no major appliances, and just nothing worth coming for. It was a shinier Zellers with way wider aisles and way less selection.

[Argus]

I think there were false assumptions and expectations on both sides of the border. Target and Super Target stores provide a different shopping experience than Walmart, and this differentiation is appreciated by many consumers in the U.S. It is fair to say that I am a biased 'homer' and stockholder, but a happy one now that this mistake has been recognized and corrected. Canada was quicksand for Target Corp....epic fail.

As epic as they get. They spent more time getting ready to open and renovating than actually in business. Its oldest stores were only open 15 months. Some weren't even open a year. Some were getting ready to open! Way to run through a couple of billion bucks, guys.

And if you're a shareholder you ought to be plenty unhappy with the epic failure of management here.

[bush_cheney2004]

...And if you're a shareholder you ought to be plenty unhappy with the epic failure of management here.

Actually, the new CEO quickly put Target Canada out of its misery. Stock price is up today.

Canadian consumers often clamor for "American Netflix", "American Amazon", and "American car prices". Shouldn't have taken a marketing genius to figure out that the same expectation would meet Target at the border. I had no idea what "Zellers" was before Target stepped on their crank in Canada. Target's invasion of Canada had been rejected before...now we know why.

[Moonlight Graham]

Targets model is big box stores. But when they came to Canada they located in the same space Zellers used to occupy. Zellers model is the intermediate sized department store, not even as big as Sears or the Bay.

I've always thought this of Target. They needed to build their own, bigger stores in order to fit all the goods that can compete with Walmart and be more similar to the US Targets. They tried to save time and money by taking over Zellers, and it backfired.

Canadians were also used to shopping at Target in the US, which had very different merch (for the US market) that you couldn't find in Canada and they didn't sell at Canadian Target stores. You walk in to a Target in the US and it's like "wow, all this stuff I've never seen before or can't get in Canada, and for cheap prices too!". That experience wasn't replicated.

Along with oft-mentioned things like price issues and empty shelves, Target really blew it.

[Moonlight Graham]

When they opened, I didn't think they could possibly be worse than Zellers. But lo and behold, they achieved the impossible.

They really were worse than Zellers, except for prices. At least Zellers had quite a different selection than Walmart. You could often find the neatest stuff in Zellers, things that had been off the shelves for years in other places sitting in a bargain bin, and each store had different cool finds. It's almost like Zellers was so lazy and disorganized it actually made it a better store!...(except when they were so lazy they never reduced prices on older products either, ie: 2 year-old video games or DVD's still selling for full price).

[Bryan]

Target Canada's management was completely incompetent right from the start. They bought an existing reasonably successful chain of stores that already had supply and distribution chains in place. They not only cast those all aside, they failed to have their own in place before they re-opened the stores.

For many months, the shelves were mostly empty. There was literally no reason for anyone to shop there for almost the first full year because they didn't have anything in stock to buy. They trained customers to stop even checking to see what was in store. They trained customers to ignore the flyers because they were nothing but a tease advertising products they didn't have.

Then there is the pricing for the stock they did have. Nobody expected the same pricing as in the US. The thing is, they also were not expecting Target to have the highest prices in town -- which is what happened on many of their stock. They weren't even coming close to competing on price with other stores that were already operating in the local market. Forget Walmart, they couldn't even compete with existing Canadian retailers like Loblaws, Shoppers Drug Mart or Canadian Tire. Virtually every thing on the shelves at Target could be easily found for a lower price inside the same shopping centre that the Target was located.

It really makes me wonder what Target was expecting in the Canadian market. It seems like they mistakenly thought that Canadian liked the Target name and would support it no matter what. Canadians never cared one way or the other for Target as a name. What they liked was the experience of shopping at the stores. Target Canada brought none of that experience with them.