Ipperwash

[Topaz]

The First Nation took down a barrier and now the problems may be starting all over again for this community and I hope that THIS provincial government can settle the problem with more peace than the Harris government did. http://www.lfpress.com/2014/12/05/opp-on-site-lambton-shores-mayor-expresses-frustration

[Argus]

The First Nation took down a barrier and now the problems may be starting all over again for this community and I hope that THIS provincial government can settle the problem with more peace than the Harris government did. http://www.lfpress.com/2014/12/05/opp-on-site-lambton-shores-mayor-expresses-frustration

Well, I think you can guarantee that. THIS government had a field day of media manipulation and PR work in accusing the Harris government of everything but wholesale deliberate extermination of natives as a race. Since becoming the government, of course, they've been absolutely terrified of being shown up for hypocrites so have shrunk from any confrontation, too frightened to enforce basic law and order or stand up to native thugs.

[Big Guy]

As long as the federal and provincial governments are able to point fingers at each other as to the responsibility for land claim disputes then these problems will be allowed to simmer. When people no longer trust of law enforcement to enforce the law then they will take the law into their own hands to protect what they believe is THEIR property. It is only a matter of time until somebody else gets killed while the province and feds continue to shirk responsibility. Meanwhile, law enforcement is caught in the middle trying to enforce their top priority mandate - the keep the peace.

[WestCoastRunner]

I must be missing something here. By removing the barriers, are they not allowing public access to the beaches? Does this not encourage harmony between the community and FIrst Nations?

[Bob Macadoo]

.... or stand up to native thugs.

Are they like black thugs or muslim thugs?

[jacee]

The First Nation took down a barrier and now the problems may be starting all over again for this community and I hope that THIS provincial government can settle the problem with more peace than the Harris government did. http://www.lfpress.com/2014/12/05/opp-on-site-lambton-shores-mayor-expresses-frustration

To review the outcome of the Ipperwash Inquiry into the death of Dudley George:

/ipperwash-inquiry-spreads-blame-for-george-s-death-

The government of former Ontario premier Mike Harris, Ottawa and the OPP all bear responsibility for events that led to the 1995 death of Dudley George, the head of the Ipperwash inquiry said Thursday.

Commissioner Sidney Linden found Harris did not order provincial police into Ipperwash Provincial Park to remove unarmed aboriginal protesters, but he could have "urged patience, rather than speed" at resolving the dispute.

So let's try for patience and avoiding incitement this time.

BigGuy and Argus, are you on board with that?

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Edited December 8, 2014 by jacee

[Argus]

Are they like black thugs or muslim thugs?

Thugs are thugs. None of them are worth the skin covering them - no matter its colour.

[Argus]

I must be missing something here. By removing the barriers, are they not allowing public access to the beaches? Does this not encourage harmony between the community and FIrst Nations?

They didn't take down a barrier blocking access to THEIR newly owned property. They took down a barrier to vehicles driving on the beach they don't own, which they now call part of their 'historical trail' and then proceeded to drive cars and trucks up and down the beach. Looks like that's going to be their next claim. They'll want the Ontario government to buy up all the properties along the beach and give them the land.

[Argus]

So let's try for patience and avoiding incitement this time.

BigGuy and Argus, are you on board with that?

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Patience like at Caledonia, where the OPP show 'patience' by ignoring native violence and lawbreaking for years on end?

Nope. But I don't expect anything to happen from a Liberal government. Honestly, if natives occupied the Ontario legislature I would expect the Liberals to shop around for a new building rather than force them out.

[jacee]

Patience like at Caledonia, where the OPP show 'patience' by ignoring native violence and lawbreaking for years on end?

I see.

So you are of the "Get the f***ing Indians out of the park!" mentality.

Well that's over.

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[jacee]

Thugs are thugs. None of them are worth the skin covering them - no matter its colour.

Yes I agree: The white thugs spewing racist crap in Caledonia and in Ipperwash are worthless.

I heard that people of Caledonia ran some of those non-resident racist white thug instigators out of town this summer, throwing eggs and tomatoes at them.

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[Moonbox]

Commissioner Sidney Linden found Harris did not order provincial police into Ipperwash Provincial Park to remove unarmed aboriginal protesters, but he could have "urged patience, rather than speed" at resolving the dispute.[/i]

The inquiry was a joke. Linden's made highly subjective conclusions and ended up doing little aside from spreading the blame around everywhere. The OPP are responsible, but the province and premier are also responsible, and hey why not the federal government as well?

[Bob Macadoo]

They didn't take down a barrier blocking access to THEIR newly owned property. They took down a barrier to vehicles driving on the beach they don't own, which they now call part of their 'historical trail' and then proceeded to drive cars and trucks up and down the beach. Looks like that's going to be their next claim. They'll want the Ontario government to buy up all the properties along the beach and give them the land.

Not their next claim....already claimed. That would be illegal claim by cottagers....blockade that was left up to ease Ipperwash tragedy.

[overthere]

Wasn't all this land treaty land until the province stole it in WWII?

[Argus]

I see.

So you are of the "Get the f***ing Indians out of the park!" mentality.

Well that's over.

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I am the "law and order" mentality. And if that's over I guess I better start buying guns.

[Argus]

Not their next claim....already claimed. That would be illegal claim by cottagers....blockade that was left up to ease Ipperwash tragedy.

Is there a single inch of territory in this country not claimed by at least one, and in most cases, multiple natives bands?

Edited December 9, 2014 by Argus

[Remiel]

What perplexes me is: What is wrong with the existing roads? A trail is not a mystical thing. It is timeworn way to get from one place to another. Modern roads are so damn time worn it seems they are always having to fix them up. So obviously they work and people are using them. If the beach is at all nice why tear it up with vehicles?

[jacee]

The inquiry was a joke. Linden's made highly subjective conclusions and ended up doing little aside from spreading the blame around everywhere. The OPP are responsible, but the province and premier are also responsible, and hey why not the federal government as well?

It's all appropriate, and they all made changes.

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[jacee]

I am the "law and order" mentality. And if that's over I guess I better start buying guns.

Ah, that variety.

Well I guess you'll find out soon enough about 'law and order'.

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[Moonbox]

It's all appropriate, and they all made changes.

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Well they had to do something. It's sad that you had to have a formal inquiry and to set up guidelines to ensure that unarmed protesters don't get hit by snipers, but neither Mike Harris nor the federal government could have foreseen what a yahoo cop might do under the circumstances. regardless of whether they may or may not have said something racist.

[jacee]

Well they had to do something. It's sad that you had to have a formal inquiry and to set up guidelines to ensure that unarmed protesters don't get hit by snipers, but neither Mike Harris nor the federal government could have foreseen what a yahoo cop might do under the circumstances. regardless of whether they may or may not have said something racist.

It's not that simple.

But unfortunately Ken Deane died an untimely death before he could testify at the inquiry about his chain of command, and so did several other significant OPP personnel.

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[Argus]

What perplexes me is: What is wrong with the existing roads? A trail is not a mystical thing. It is timeworn way to get from one place to another. Modern roads are so damn time worn it seems they are always having to fix them up. So obviously they work and people are using them. If the beach is at all nice why tear it up with vehicles?

Because they can.

[Moonbox]

It's not that simple.

But unfortunately Ken Deane died an untimely death before he could testify at the inquiry about his chain of command, and so did several other significant OPP personnel.

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It's not much more complicated than that. Ken Deane died 13 years later and his testimony in 2006 wasn't likely to be much different than on any previous occasion. It was his and the local OPP's lapse in judgement that led to George's death. Blaming the provincial or federal legislators at the time is just the by-default redirection of blame up the chain of command.

[PIK]

He was shot because he had a gun, and someone took off with the gun after he was shot. Don't tell me that these protesters do not have weapons around when they are doing their thing.

[jacee]

He was shot because he had a gun, and someone took off with the gun after he was shot. Don't tell me that these protesters do not have weapons around when they are doing their thing.

Dudley's uncle:

"If we'd had a gun there would have been one dead cop that night, but we didn't have any."

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