Wild Rose Party falling apart....

[The_Squid]

...due to their social conservative faction.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/11/24/alberta-pcs-courting-wildrose-defectors-to-capitalize-on-rift-between-social-and-fiscal-conservatives-sources-say/

At the general meeting, a Wildrose MLA pushed the party to adopt an all-encompassing member’s statement to grant equality rights regardless of sexual orientation. The party membership rejected the statement.

The vote re-ignited questions about Wildrose’s commitment to LGBTQ rights among its socially conservative faction.

Last week, Calgary riding vice-president Terry Lo quit, saying the party is run by a bigoted minority that is against gays and ethnics.

In his resignation letter, Mr. Lo wrote: “It’s a very powerful minority that is shaping the culture of the party, unfortunately, that is not only LGBT-unfriendly but also ethnic-unfriendly as well.”

A member of their own party quits because the party is being run by "a bigoted minority". Bigoted, certainly... but if they can run the party, how can they be in the minority?

Alberta’s Wildrose struggles to distance itself from allegations party doesn’t support gay people

[Big Guy]

What are the philosophical and policy differences between the current Wildrose Party and the old Reform Party?

[overthere]

..due to their social conservative faction.

That faction is also what cost them the last provincial election.

Wildrose had a substantial lead in the polls, and the PCs mopped the floor with their bleeding corpses.

Since them and in recognition that Wildrose seriously needed to move towards the center leader Danielle Smith has worked hard to tone down the social conservative faction. But she has a huge anchor in church groups that are extremely convervative and it looks like she wont be able to overcome their influence.

Wildrose was formed in part by these very conservative groups, plus a rump of disaffected PCs.

The PCs have succeeded in taking the center away from everybody.

Smith has had a disastrous month or so.

- One of her most articulate MLAs left to sit as an independent

- the govt held four byelections and won all of them. That is a profound comment on the alternative- Wildrose

-last week two MLAS left Wildrose to cross the floor and join the PCs. One of them was a WR stalwart and close personal friend.

I don't think that Wildrose will recover from this. In the meantime, new Premier Jim Prentice is doing all the right things.

Very tough times for Wildrose

[August1991]

Jim Prentice killed the radio star.

[jacee]

What are the philosophical and policy differences between the current Wildrose Party and the old Reform Party?

Or the PC's ... ?

Only the extreme social conservative element ...

comments of a pastor and Wildrose candidate, Allan Hunsperger, who warned that homosexuals would burn in a lake of fire in a blog post.

... which they now halfheartedly disavow.

So what's left to distinguish them?

.

[overthere]

Alberta political primer in a few sentences.

NDP: new and dynamic leader, Rachel Notley. Should increase seats dramatically in the next election by taking popular vote from the Liberals. They have four seats, they might get six.(out of 85 available). Party did nothing under their old leader, who was 'outraged' by everything.

Liberals: have 5 members now under a certifiable idiot as leader, Raj Sherman. Hopelessly lost despite having some good MLAS excluding Sherman. 20 years ago they nearly became the govt.

Wildrose: down to 14 seats and fading. They probably need to get a new leader, but in the meantime they need to shut up for a while or sink even further.

PC: they moved strongly to the center out of necessity a few years ago, when Wildrose formed and took their right wing away- which was fortuitous indeed.. That move was expedited by Stelmach and by Redford. They have a new leader/Premier Prentice who has made many visible changes since taking power. He is going to be hard to remove now. 63 seats.

[Bryan]

Wildrose was a necessary alternative under Stelmach and Redford. With Prentice at the helm, they aren't really needed anymore (at least not for the purpose they were formed). That makes it much harder for them to even justify their place as it is now, nevermind convince people to vote them into office.

[Smallc]

Prentice should take Harper's place.

[Bryan]

Prentice should take Harper's place.

Not Conservative enough. Prentice is a PC, not a Reformer.

[Smallc]

Not Conservative enough. Prentice is a PC, not a Reformer.

Perfect.

[overthere]

Not Conservative enough. Prentice is a PC, not a Reformer.

And the indications that Harper is a hardcore Reformer are(this is the part where you list The Secret Agenda):

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

You can fill in the blanks. Best of luck, Harper moved the CPC to the center long ago, which is why he is PM. Somehow, so many missed that move then and still do now.

Prentice is nothing new at all in Alberta. Late term Klein, Stelmach and Redford all also moved the party fully to the middle of the political spectrum for a common, simple motive: because that's where all the votes are.....

The novel thing about Prentice so far is that he is a smooth operator, much more so than his predecessors. But on the poltical spectrum? No different really.

[Bryan]

I'd much rather see an actual conservative who moves towards the centre, than a centrist who moves left from there. The starting point matters. We used to have two Liberal parties, just choose red or blue. Right now, at least one of those choices is conservative-ish.

[jacee]

Prentice should take Harper's place.

I agree.

.

[socialist]

All this shows is that right wing politics are not welcome in progressive Canada anymore.

[Ash74]

It is rather embarrassing for individuals like myself that have no trust in big government yet the parties we feel more inclined with are filled with bible thumping morons that want to force their lifestyle on others.

I am a right winger but I believe that the government needs to get out of the private lives and concentrate on what really matters.

Nobody is getting hurt if bill and bob get married so what is the big deal. GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!! Your boring the rest of us and it makes the Liberals look competent. No small feet I grant you.

[Michael Hardner]

It is rather embarrassing for individuals like myself that have no trust in big government yet the parties we feel more inclined with are filled with bible thumping morons that want to force their lifestyle on others.

I am a right winger but I believe that the government needs to get out of the private lives and concentrate on what really matters.

Nobody is getting hurt if bill and bob get married so what is the big deal. GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!! Your boring the rest of us and it makes the Liberals look competent. No small feet I grant you.

I feel for you, honestly, but there aren't enough of your kind to wield real power in Canada. The best you can do is make deals with the social conservatives as Reagan did.

[Topaz]

Didn't some of Harper's gang support the Wild Rose party over the PC, in the last election?

[overthere]

It is rather embarrassing for individuals like myself that have no trust in big government yet the parties we feel more inclined with are filled with bible thumping morons that want to force their lifestyle on others.

I am a right winger but I believe that the government needs to get out of the private lives and concentrate on what really matters.

Nobody is getting hurt if bill and bob get married so what is the big deal. GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!! Your boring the rest of us and it makes the Liberals look competent. No small feet I grant you.

If you are referring to Wildrose, you won't be welcome there now.

The party was formed by two groups, initially. The first was a discontented rump of PCs, the right leaning, fiscally and socially conservative wing that was not at all happy with the surprise election of Ed Stelmach as leader. He had two huge failings in their eyes: he was a moderate red Tory, and he was not from Calgary. The second was the very socially conservative church groups, not large in number but organized and willing to shop their votes to the right party. The PCs moved left, the rump and the churches just left and formed Wildrose.

By doing so they handed a huge opportunity to an increasingly moribund mainstream PC party, a party that had gone to sleep under the last few years of Klein. The opportunity was to rid themselves of vocal portions of their own party that prevented them moving to the center. And it isolated that new party on the fringes, which makes it very hard for Widlrose to baclk away and modertae their message.

That unmoderated message cost them dearly in 2012, it in fact cost them an election.

Wildrose leader Danielle Smith just had another bill come due, with the defection of at least four MLAs(two now and two a while ago) who recognized that the fundie dogma of social conservatism just diod not resonate with nearly enough Albertans and worse, was actively alienating many, many more.

She is in a box, and now has mostly just the far right and the fundies in her camp . She has tried hard to shift the party and tired really hard to shift public perception but has failed. I think the party is consigned to the rubbish heap for the foreseeable future.

If you support same sex marriage, Widlrose won't be a happy home for you. And it is an increasingly small home, the walls are closing in.

[left_alberta]

And it is an increasingly small home, the walls are closing in.

My prediction is that they'll hold onto most of what they've got in the south, but make few if any inroads in the cities or the non-southern rurals. They'll probably still be the official opposition after the next election, but no more a government-in-waiting than Ray Martin was between '86 and '93.

Edited December 5, 2014 by left_alberta

[overthere]

And it is an increasingly small home, the walls are closing in.

My prediction is that they'll hold onto most of what they've got in the south, but make few if any inroads in the cities or the non-southern rurals. They'll probably still be the official opposition after the next election, but no more a government-in-waiting than Ray Martin was between '86 and '93.

Which in political terms means a complete failure by Wildrose.

They lost -and lost badly- an election that was theirs to win.

They have not moved to the center, which they had to do to gain seats. Smith has gamely tried everyhting to do that, and has failed. I think the moderates in Wildrose have left her, and what remains are the hard right and the church groups. They are not at all close to expanding their seat count if that is all they can bring.

They lost all four bye-elections and have had defections of MLAS.

Worst of all they have lost a perfect whipping boy with the departure of Redford. Her replacement has been formidable. Prentice just pulled back the gay-straight alliance bill. he recognizes now that there was no need to moderate the bill, and I expect it back looking a lot like the private members bill that Blakeman promoted. That won't cost any votes and will help him keep a bunch of the disaffected Liberals that Redford nabbed last time.

Wildrose will struggle to keep their remaining seats. The Liberals have five and will have trouble keeping those. The NDP will gain seats. And the PCs should get a huge majority. Meanwhile, Jim Prentice is bilingual and a PC. His hair is not nearly to national standards.

[August1991]

Prentice should take Harper's place.

Correct me but no provincial PM (John Thompson?) has ever become a federal PM - although many provincial PMs have become federal party leaders, and various cabinet ministers (career politicians) have changed levels: Bob Rae and Louis St-Laurent come to mind. As a federal state, Canada is unlike the US where governors often become central presidents: Bush Jnr, Clinton, Carter, Roosevelt for example.

So, based on 150 years of history, I doubt that Prentice will ever be a federal PM. Like the Austro-Hungarian Empire, Canada is simply too regional and too multicultural.

Edited December 18, 2014 by August1991

[overthere]

Correct me but no provincial PM (John Thompson?) has ever become a federal PM - although many provincial PMs have become federal party leaders, and various cabinet ministers (career politicians) have changed levels: Bob Rae and Louis St-Laurent come to mind. As a federal state, Canada is unlike the US where governors often become central presidents: Bush Jnr, Clinton, Carter, Roosevelt for example.

So, based on 150 years of history, I doubt that Prentice will ever be a federal PM. Like the Austro-Hungarian Empire, Canada is simply too regional and too multicultural.

Your analogy is laboured and pointless.

Oh, and only Quebec is so navel gazing and self important to fantasize that its Premier is a Prime Minister.

Prentice is bilingual, has strong federal cabinet experience in government, good contacts in business in Central Canada, and has worked a virtual political miracle in Alberta in just a few months- and I'm not talking about the crushing of Wild Rose.

Your 'too regional' piffle is clearly wrong, perhaps you had not noticed that the country currently has a majority government with no input from your region. Quebec. Every PM came from somewhere.

I do not know if Prentice will ever become PM, but his game so far has been very strong.

[Argus]

Didn't some of Harper's gang support the Wild Rose party over the PC, in the last election?

Yes, because WR was fiscally conservative, unlike the PCs.

[Black Dog]

Yes, because WR was fiscally conservative, unlike the PCs.

Easy to claim to be fiscally conservative when they don't have their hands in the till.

[overthere]

Easy to claim to be fiscally conservative when they don't have their hands in the till.

The federal govt certainly knows their way around the AB till.

Edited December 19, 2014 by overthere