Iran Key To Middle East Peace

[CITIZEN_2015]

Again Argus you are hiding the facts and the facts are Israel has no respect for human rights when it comes to people in occupied lands and I was very clear in my post about that (that I was referring to lack of respect for human rights by Israel for people in occupied lands). Dropping bombs on their heads, bulldozing their houses, shooting plastic and live bullets at demonstrators mostly children IN OCCUPIED LANDS are not very respectful of human rights. It would be horrible to have them as enemies especially as occupiers and especially when they are sitting on hundreds of nuclear bombs which THEY HAVE DEVELOPED IN SECRET as they have no respect for human lives if it is an enemy life, even women and children.

Edited September 1, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[Rue]

Citizen you can get personal with me all you want but your words speak for themselves. You white wash terrorists as martyrs. Congrats. It didn't take much time to let that slip up and come out. Accusations? No, I just respond to your bloody words, and I do mean bloody.

[Rue]

Citizen you came on this board and referred to terrorists being trained by Iran to destroy Israel as and I quote:

"civilians joining the army of forces ready to die fighting Israel.."

In your country Iran, referring to terrorists as civilians joining the army of forces etc. may pass as stable, healthy normal talk...but in my country I would hope its rejected for what it is, pro terrorist pandering.

The U.S. Iran Sanctions Act of 1996 imposed sanctions on Iran, which didn’t just restrain nuclear weapons development , but also were created to directly impair Iran’s financial support of Hezbollah, Hamas, and other terrorist groups that threatened the U.S.

When Obama was running for office the second time he stated during his debate to John McCain that Hamas and Hezbollah were terrorist organizations and Iran was a terrorist state and he would never support their positions on Israel and it would be ridiculous for Israel to conside them peace partners unti. He was indignant in tone claiming his being accused of being pro terrorist or anti Israel was unfair.

Right after he was elected he suddenly removed Hamas from his terrorist list referring to them as a legitimate peace partner. Obama the same man who stated to Israel during his election campaign they could not be expected to withdraw to 1967 borders until Hamas disarmed and recognized Israel now stated that Netanyahu was a “cvhicken shit” for not withdrawing to 1967 borders and was unreasonable in expecting Hamas or the PA to recognize a Jewish state.

His lying did not stop there. In March of 2013, Obama stated and I quote; “every country that values justice should call Hezbollah what it truly is–a terrorist organization…Because, the world cannot tolerate an organization that murders innocent civilians, stockpiles rockets to shoot at cities, and supports the massacre of men.”

This is the same Obama who stated Iran was a financier of terrorism world wide including Hezbollah. This is the same Obama who openly criticized Iran for supporting Assad in Syria.

On February 26, 2015, Iran and Hezbollah were removed from the Worldwide Threat Assessment as terrorists presented to the US Senate, by James Clapper the National Intelligence Director.

Instead the report acknowledged Iran’s role as fighting ISIS and stated this comment: “Iran’s actions to protect and empower Shia communities are fueling growing fears and sectarian responses.”

That was it. In fact it censored, it deliberately removed any negative references to Iran including Army Gen. Lloyd Austin, chief of U.S. Central Command, reporting to the Senate Armed Services Committee on March 26, 2015 that and I quote, : “Three tours in Iraq commanding troops who were brutalized by some of these Shia militias … I will not — and I hope we never — coordinate or cooperate with the Shia militias.”

This glaring omission of Iran as a terrorist state deeply involved in the massacre and torture of Kurds, Sunnis, Bahaiis, Zoroastreans, Christians, Jews,. Gays, labour activists, feminists, 120,000 civilians and students who protested on the streets against its regime, journalists, and its support of the on-going genocide of Christians in Sudan, its support of Muslim extremists in Nigeria, Malawi, Senegal, Morrocco, , Tunisia, and its open financing and fighting trying to control Iraq, Bahrain and Yemen speaks loudly.

Never in the history of the US have they seen an elected leader openly support Muslim extremist terrorists, first the Muslim Brotherhood and ISIL, and now Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas.

You bet I challenge Citizen and Big Guy as Iran terrorist apologists who claim allying with Iran is in Canada’s best interest,

They pander to terrorism and a terrorist nation because in their world Israel is terrorist but Iran is oh well now, let's just ignore what it is.

It is a fact that as we debate, Iran operates a global network, including in the U.S. and South America.

It is a fact that in May 2013, a 500 page report was issued by anb Argentine state prosecutor stating that Iran has an “intelligence and terrorist network” in Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay, Uruguay, Chile, Colombia, Guyana, Trinidad, Tobago and Suriname and elsewhere.

source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/29/us-argentina-iran-idUSBRE94S1F420130529

How is that in Canada’s best interest?

In April 2013, we all became aware that two individuals linked to Al Qaeda were arrested in Canada as they planned to derail a train going from New York to Toronto and that the RCMP found the individuals were receiving support from Al Qaeda elements located in Iran.

How is supporting a country financing and supporting terror in Canada in our best interests? How is killing an innocent Canadian journalist in Iran in our best interest?

How?

Here is what Big Guy and Citizen and the apologists for this Iranian regime can not acknowledge on this board. They will try call me names to try change the focus, but what they can not stop me from pointing out and that they know and don’t have the integrity to admit is that the current Iranian regime consists of Shiite Islamists who interpret their faith as a code of ABSOLUTE governance.

The current regime’s belief is that ALL Muslims are required by Allah to wage global jihad until a messianic figure called the “Mahdi” appears to bring about final victory over Islam’s non-Muslim enemies.

How is supporting that in Canada’s best interests?

It is a pubic domain fact that in June 2014, Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said and I quote, “the coming of Imam Zaman (the Mahdi) is the definite promise by Allah.”

Source: http://dailycaller.com/2014/06/15/iran-supreme-leader-the-shiite-islamic-messiah-is-coming-to-free-the-world/

Why will Citizen and Big Guy not disclose the following and that is that the belief above in jihad is in fact stated in the preamble of Iran’s constitution which says and I quoite “ the government is committed to the establishment of a universal holy government and the downfall of all others.”

Source: https://faculty.unlv.edu/pwerth/Const-Iran(abridge).pdf

How is that in Canada’s best interests?

Just who comes on this board white washing Iran pretending it is a regular law abiding state and says because I challenge that I am obsessed, psychologically imbalanced, etc.? Lol. Lock me away boys.

Where does anyone get off apologizing for this regime and presuming to state this is what we Canadians should support and condone?

I have news for the Iranian scribes on this board, here I am and here I stay with others to challenge your state and what it stands for. Boo.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Argus I am waiting for your response to my post. Btw, I didn't even bother to read the two posts following my post responding to your post. A load of nonsense and false statements and accusations, fanatism and extremism I am sure as usual, so I don't waste my valuable time reading or worse responding to stupid comments and garbage posts.

Edited September 1, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[marcus]

Where does anyone get off apologizing for this regime and presuming to state this is what we Canadians should support and condone?

I agree. The Zionist regime must not be supported and it should be pressured into abandoning their decades long oppression of the Palestinians.

[bush_cheney2004]

The "Zionist regime" is very much supported by the United States. Nothing Canadians can do about that.

[On Guard for Thee]

The "Zionist regime" is very much supported by the United States. Nothing Canadians can do about that.

Not with our current Prime Minister, but we are about to fix that.

[Rue]

So here is Citizen on this forum in one breath demanding responses and in the next refusing to respond.

[Rue]

What are "we" about to fix Guard? Who is we? What will "we" fix? How will "we " fix it.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Rue

[SpankyMcFarland]

The US had no choice but to sign the deal in the end. I'd say a lot of Republican Senators are quietly pleased they can tell their donors they fought like heck to stop it to no avail. Iran had split the coalition and the rest of the world was going to abandon sanctions, leaving the US in a potential Cuba situation again.

[Rue]

Spanky Iran and China never agreed with the sanctions from the get go. Europe was not against the sanctions, Obama was. In fact France and Germany as well as Britain were not for removing them-it was Obama who pretty much pressured the EEC by abandoning them. You need to actually find out what was what in the negotiations. Germany sent state of the art naval vessels to Israel in direct response to Obama's overtures to Iran. Britain pulled out of Iraq and Afghanistan. France openly criticized Obama as did Italy for that matter. Not sure where you get the idea Obama was pressured by Europe. Europe was not about to get into bed with Russia and its side kick Iran. The Obama sell out to Iran because he lost control of ISIL did not draw European praise just very restrained limited response realizing he is a lameduck and they have to wait him out. The unfreezing of the sanctions deals with Chinese money owed to Iran for gas and oil not European money.

The US had many choices. The decision to pull Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran from world terrorist lists, the decision to support ISIL, the decision to welcome and align with the Muslim Brotherhood were not choices forced on Obama-they were deliberate. No one forced Obama to do a damn thing. He is no victim. He chose to send the world a signal that he would not allow the US to remain as no.1 as long as he was President. He has succeeded in emasculating US foreign policy with but one thing to show for it, Iran laughing at his weakness and desperation.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Rue

[CITIZEN_2015]

I did respond to those who deserved a response and never demand but suggested that I was waiting however my post was so true that may be Argus was not able to rebuff. To one who has serious psychological issues making personal attacks and false statements and accusations and who is uncivil in debates, I have no response in fact don't even bother to waste my time and read his long responses as I know it is full of garbage, lies and attacks and insults.

Btw, Iran nuclear deal sealed so eat your heart Rue.

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-locking-votes-senate-iran-nuclear-deal-070502119--politics.html#

Edited September 2, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[kactus]

I did respond to those who deserved a response and never demand but suggested that I was waiting however my post was so true that may be Argus was not able to rebuff. To one who has serious psychological issues making personal attacks and false statements and accusations and who is uncivil in debates, I have no response in fact don't even bother to waste my time and read his long responses as I know it is full of garbage, lies and attacks and insults.

Btw, Iran nuclear deal sealed so eat your heart Rue.

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-locking-votes-senate-iran-nuclear-deal-070502119--politics.html#

An quite rightly so

Unfortunately, on this forum there are not that many others representing the voice of other countries. Now if you are an israeli or a jew living in US supporting israeli policies unequivocally to the detriment of arguing rationally and just to praise Israel regardless of what is actually happening then it is clear why the arguments always end up in playing the victim card, jew bashing, anti semis, blah blah blah...

[Big Guy]

There are valid arguments. Israelis will argue what is good for Israel even if it is a detriment to others. Canadians will argue what is good for Canada even if it is a detriment to others. Americans will argue what is good for the old USA even if it is a detriment to others.

But most rational Canadians will not call those opposing their views: Canadian haters, anti-Canadians, constitution deniers, Canadian bashers, terrorist lovers, Russian apologists etc and etc and etc ad nauseum.

There is a fine line between passionate patriotism and blind extremism. When you cross that line then you tend to get ignored.

[Rue]

Citizen I will respond to these 3 comments you made:

1-I did respond to those who deserve a response....

2-To one who has serious psychological issues...making personal attacks...uncivil in debates...

3-don't bother to waste my time and read his responses...I know its full of garbage, lies attacks and insults

In regards to 1 you evidence the fact that you do not come on this board to exchange debate, but to dictate what opinions you want on the board.

In regards to 2, you insult, then in the very next breath accuse me of personal attacks and being uncivil and you see no disconnect in your words.

In regards to 2, You again as in 2 contradict yourself-this time saying you don't read what I write, but then in the very next breath suggesting you know what I say is full of garbage, lies, attacks and insults. Now that is interesting because for someone who doesn't read what I wrote, you either did and do not know how to respond to lower yourself to name calling, or you are psychic. Which one is it? Hmmmm? That tactic by the way of claiming you don't read what I write, then dismissing it as lies, seems to me someone using another name has responded to me using that device many times? Coincidence?

Listen up, you clearly have no idea how to debate me so have lowered yourself to name calling. I could have complained asking your response me removed as a personal attack. I did not. I prefer to debate it and let people see, you don't debate me, you call me names. I stand by my words which challenge yours. You can call me all the names you want, you came on this board with an anti Israeli, pro terrorist, pro Iranian agenda and you have now revealed your actual agenda and the civility you commenced with has proven to anyone now reading you, that you are not civil and when people won't agree with you, show your true agenda. Thank you. Being intolerant and contradicting yourself in the same breath has proven my previous points.

You think what I say is garbage? That is how you debate? You think that passes for debate? Lol. Got it.

[Rue]

Kactus is it? Is that the name. Well whether its Marcus, Kactus, big Guy, Civilian, Hudson, I have the same response to your words. This is a debate forum.

People debate. You have now come on and your response consists of creating a stereotype irrational Jew and throwing it out. You provide no political positions, no positions on any issue, just a negative stereotype about a Jew you created.

Doesn't matter what name you use, this device, this tactic, is stale. If your sole contribution is to come on this board and throw out a Jewish stereotype and offer zero contribution to the board do yourself a favour and go to another forum where you can spend all day pissing on Jews. This one has a few who will call you out for coming on the board to incite anti Semitism and that is what it is when all you have to offer the board is a negative stereotype of a Jew with no connection to any issue being discussed.

[Rue]

Big Guy regardless of the name you again use the device of stating a stereotype, in this case, it starts with the words, "most rational Canadians..." you then revert after those words to refer to your opinions as "their views" and in fact project on a negative stereotype of anyone who disagrees with you the characteristics if an irrational Canadian using name calling you suggest has been used to describe you.

What is interesting with your words is you again showcase your need to constantly refer to being Canadian when cataloguing your views. Your alleged Canadian identity is now brought up by you over and over bringing attention to you claiming you are Canadian. That shows a pattern of someone trying very had to say over and over he is Canadian.

What is also shows is you try rationalize ignoring people you disagree with, by name calling them and not dealing with their opinions. That device of refusing to deal with the issue and instead attack the person to rationalize not debating the issue and instead justifying your inability to debate comes up again and again in responses from you, Marcus, Citizen, Hudson.

When people disagree with you, out comes the name calling to justify not debating their comments. Its tell tale and its constant no matter what name is used.

In fact your response plays the victim card. Maybe you should talk to Kactus because he seems to have a problem with people who play the victim card. Then again he says one thing then the exact opposite right after, so you never know.

Bottom line, don't care how many names are used, it won't stop me from calling out your anti-Semitism, pro terrorist positions, pro Russian positions, pro Iranian positions and denying you have placed them on the board is pointless. They are there. They are now public domain. Attacking me or anyone else who disagrees with you won't erase them.

[GostHacked]

There are valid arguments. Israelis will argue what is good for Israel even if it is a detriment to others. Canadians will argue what is good for Canada even if it is a detriment to others. Americans will argue what is good for the old USA even if it is a detriment to others.

But most rational Canadians will not call those opposing their views: Canadian haters, anti-Canadians, constitution deniers, Canadian bashers, terrorist lovers, Russian apologists etc and etc and etc ad nauseum.

There is a fine line between passionate patriotism and blind extremism. When you cross that line then you tend to get ignored.

I find that quite perplexing. People who criticize Canada and it's policies should not automatically be thrown into the 'Hate Canada' category. Me criticizing the USA's foreign policy should not throw me into the 'I hate USA' camp. It's a childish tactic that others use in an attempt to marginalize, twist and to misconstrue what one posts. That continues to happen with Member Rue.

I recall having a difficult time with another poster a couple years back (who as far as I know does not post here anymore) who was constantly twisting everything I was saying. Even with multiple corrections (as many consistently do with Rue), the words I put here get bent out of shape to fit their narrative. It's tiring.

This is a good example of what I am talking about. The way in which Rue responds here is at a grade school level.

Citizen I will respond to these 3 comments you made:

1-I did respond to those who deserve a response....

2-To one who has serious psychological issues...making personal attacks...uncivil in debates...

3-don't bother to waste my time and read his responses...I know its full of garbage, lies attacks and insults

In regards to 1 you evidence the fact that you do not come on this board to exchange debate, but to dictate what opinions you want on the board.

In regards to 2, you insult, then in the very next breath accuse me of personal attacks and being uncivil and you see no disconnect in your words.

In regards to 2, You again as in 2 contradict yourself-this time saying you don't read what I write, but then in the very next breath suggesting you know what I say is full of garbage, lies, attacks and insults. Now that is interesting because for someone who doesn't read what I wrote, you either did and do not know how to respond to lower yourself to name calling, or you are psychic. Which one is it? Hmmmm? That tactic by the way of claiming you don't read what I write, then dismissing it as lies, seems to me someone using another name has responded to me using that device many times? Coincidence?

Listen up, you clearly have no idea how to debate me so have lowered yourself to name calling. I could have complained asking your response me removed as a personal attack. I did not. I prefer to debate it and let people see, you don't debate me, you call me names. I stand by my words which challenge yours. You can call me all the names you want, you came on this board with an anti Israeli, pro terrorist, pro Iranian agenda and you have now revealed your actual agenda and the civility you commenced with has proven to anyone now reading you, that you are not civil and when people won't agree with you, show your true agenda. Thank you. Being intolerant and contradicting yourself in the same breath has proven my previous points.

You think what I say is garbage? That is how you debate? You think that passes for debate? Lol. Got it.

The thing is, there is no debate when it comes to Rue. Even when I agree with Rue it still can be used against me. There is no way to even have a proper discussion when this takes place. Even with that former poster and with Rue, I have tried to make peace with them, but in the next post I get called an anti-semite and we are back to the start.

So, I don't know what needs to be done to satisfy Rue so we don't get a flood of long winded triads. So, no matter what some do here, there is no pleasing him. So, don't even bother trying. It's not my problem. It's not Big Guy's problem. It is not even Marcus' problem or a problem for most members. It is only Rue's problem. The bold text will prove my point.

You get what you give. And if you give crap, you get crap back. But that is the vicious cycle we have allowed that brought us to the point. So I expect another long rant response from Rue in which I won't read.

[kactus]

Kactus is it? Is that the name. Well whether its Marcus, Kactus, big Guy, Civilian, Hudson, I have the same response to your words. This is a debate forum.

People debate. You have now come on and your response consists of creating a stereotype irrational Jew and throwing it out. You provide no political positions, no positions on any issue, just a negative stereotype about a Jew you created.

Doesn't matter what name you use, this device, this tactic, is stale. If your sole contribution is to come on this board and throw out a Jewish stereotype and offer zero contribution to the board do yourself a favour and go to another forum where you can spend all day pissing on Jews. This one has a few who will call you out for coming on the board to incite anti Semitism and that is what it is when all you have to offer the board is a negative stereotype of a Jew with no connection to any issue being discussed.

Why does it matter what my name is? What is to you? I have as much right to express what I like to say and if you don't like it tough YOU go somewhere else with your anti semite BS, which has become pretty lame and boring.

Many innocent people all around the world are dying and we are still shedding crocodile tears.

This is a debate forum and there is always two sides to every argument. Unfortunately with your ilks is all about picking on names, character assassination, discrediting any opposing views as one would expect. And least to say coming up with biased sources that would always put Israel in the best light is not exactly a 'rational debate' but insulting the intelligence. Aside from your lame arguments and long essays (not even worth reading) there is not really much contribution.

As for personal attacks on you in my previous posts don't know what the hell you're smoking but it is pretty damn lethal.

[marcus]

By the way, the Iran deal is going to go through as the pro-war crowd (AIPAC/Zionists/NeoCons) and Sheldon Adelson will not get 2/3 of the votes in the Senate.

Here is Obama responding to Chuck Schumer:

Edited September 4, 2015 by marcus

[CITIZEN_2015]

By the way, the Iran deal is going to go through as the pro-war crowd (AIPAC/Zionists/NeoCons) and Sheldon Adelson will not get 2/3 of the votes in the Senate.

Not so fast. .... The Iranian Parliament may reject the deal now!!!!!.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/irans-ali-larijani-says-parliament-must-approve-nuclear-agreement-1441304205

Edited September 4, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[Rue]

Lol right Iran is a democratic country where its Parliamentary members will vote against their clergy council. Man you are funny,

[jbg]

That said, you must SEEK THE REASON AS WHY ISRAEL HAS ENEMIES and the answer is in their oppressive policies (and those they bless or support like armed vigilante settlers) towards weaker mostly defenseless people and many people they have destroyed past 6 decades.

I feel your pain. Many people over the millennia have wanted the Jews either gone, or operating under subjugation. When "weaker mostly defenseless people" seek to constantly stir the pot and often start wars, either asymetrical or otherwise, Israel will defend itself. Not by seeking mercy and sympathy on the pages of the Toronto Star but in real life. When the Islamists mockingly say "you love life we love death" why shouldn't Israel give them what they love? In spades.

I am no expert in Arab Israel conflict

That's sure obvious. Yet you seem to pass your days making posts on the subject.

but know enough to believe that most may be all middle eastern problems in the past or present (like arab Israeli wars, like decades long civil war in Lebanon, the Iraq wars and the war in Afghanistan or indirectly even current civil war in Syria) is at least party or fully because of Israeli policies and pro-Israel lobby groups in US and Europe.

This is a stretch, again, unless your premise is that the Jews should either be submissive or gone. Ditto the West as we know it.

[jbg]

The US had no choice but to sign the deal in the end. I'd say a lot of Republican Senators are quietly pleased they can tell their donors they fought like heck to stop it to no avail. Iran had split the coalition and the rest of the world was going to abandon sanctions, leaving the US in a potential Cuba situation again.

I agree as to the sanctions. But the funds to be released are another story. We could have pressured, through the banking system and civil judgments that those funds be held. With plummeting oil prices Iran would have been the country in a difficult position.

[jbg]

He chose to send the world a signal that he would not allow the US to remain as no.1 as long as he was President. He has succeeded in emasculating US foreign policy with but one thing to show for it, Iran laughing at his weakness and desperation.

That about says it all. Obama is a "we are one world" type of a person. He is not an advocate for the U.S. He has adhered to our enemies, giving that aid and comfort. See Article III Section 3 U.S. Constitution.