eyeball Posted June 1, 2016 Report Posted June 1, 2016 And right-wingers call themselves progressive and Liberal so their social conservatives won't blow their cover. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
GostHacked Posted June 1, 2016 Report Posted June 1, 2016 What's hard is that the PLO, Hamas and Syria will never recognize Israel as a Jewish state. They consider pre-1967 Israel to be "occupied." Which is why they didn't agree to recognize the 1949 Armistice lines, the so-called "1967 borders." They fought a war. They lost a war. They want a do-over. That's part of the problem when foreign powers (axis and allies) drew the borders. Quote
kactus Posted June 1, 2016 Report Posted June 1, 2016 Care to explain how being against Islamic Fascism puts anything ahead of my country of Canada? You know...the one I was born in ? Unlike yourself...judging by your pidgin English. You have claimed explicitly here on many occasions that you do not care about Israel. Your evasive way of defending Israel on every occasion says otherwise. Next time I wanted to know your opinion about my command of English I will let you know. No one asked you and frankly it doesn't matter. At least there is some coherency in the debate unlike some. That has nothing to do with English... Quote
herples Posted June 1, 2016 Report Posted June 1, 2016 (edited) What's hard is that the PLO, Hamas and Syria will never recognize Israel as a Jewish state. They consider pre-1967 Israel to be "occupied." Which is why they didn't agree to recognize the 1949 Armistice lines, the so-called "1967 borders." They fought a war. They lost a war. They want a do-over. PLO and Hamas had no army to declare war with in 1948 or 1967. and in 1947 neither the Yishuv and Palestinians had no armies to declare war with it was simply a situation that was allowed to spiral out of control. Edited June 1, 2016 by herples Quote
jbg Posted June 1, 2016 Report Posted June 1, 2016 That's part of the problem when foreign powers (axis and allies) drew the borders. Trouble is that the Arabs don't want to recognize any borders at all. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jbg Posted June 1, 2016 Report Posted June 1, 2016 PLO and Hamas had no army to declare war with in 1948 or 1967. and in 1947 neither the Yishuv and Palestinians had no armies to declare war with it was simply a situation that was allowed to spiral out of control. Their predecessors in interest fought a war. They lost. Now their successors want a do-over. Does that satisfy you? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Hudson Jones Posted June 1, 2016 Report Posted June 1, 2016 (edited) Trouble is that the Arabs don't want to recognize any borders at all. Guess what?! The PLO and the Arab League accept the borders. It's the Israelis and their dream of Greater Israel that doesn't accept the borders. They never really have accepted the borders. Not even when Israel was officially born. They have stayed ambiguous about that, just like many other things. Their actions have certainly shown what they're really after. From the Nakba, to the illegal settlements in the Palestinian territories. You either accept the internationally recognized borders and work to negotiate based on that, or it will happen without your acceptance. If the BDS movement becomes any bigger, it won't matter anymore in regards to what Israel decides to accept. The movement is turning into a big juggernaut that will do to Israel, what the international boycott movement did to Apartheid South Africa. Edited June 1, 2016 by Hudson Jones Quote When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always. Gandhi
herples Posted June 1, 2016 Report Posted June 1, 2016 Their predecessors in interest fought a war. They lost. Now their successors want a do-over. Does that satisfy you? Their predecessors didn't fight any war they had no national army to declare war. Quote
GostHacked Posted June 3, 2016 Report Posted June 3, 2016 Trouble is that the Arabs don't want to recognize any borders at all. That's ok, The only democracy in the region does not even recognize it's own borders. Quote
Rue Posted June 3, 2016 Report Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) Guess what?! The PLO and the Arab League accept the borders. No they do not and they made it clear they do not and no one is going to fall for your bait or the above deliberate misrepresentation. Its stale to the point of festered. The fact you keep repeating it shows why the words you place on this board posed as debate on Israel have zero credibility. I didn't even reproduce the illiterate ones from Eye. I just refer back to the date and time and say-incoherent babble. Edited June 3, 2016 by Rue Quote
kactus Posted June 4, 2016 Report Posted June 4, 2016 (edited) Video especially made for Argus et all: VIDEO LINK HERE btw, the person who visited the country is an infidel westerner. How could that be!? Hmmmm... Edited June 4, 2016 by Michael Hardner ADDED VIDEO LINK Quote
marcus Posted June 4, 2016 Report Posted June 4, 2016 No they do not and they made it clear No. Actually, they are willing to accept the 1967 border. Please learn: The Arab League members unanimously endorsed the peace initiative on March 27, 2002. It consists of a comprehensive proposal to end the entire Arab–Israeli conflict. It provides in a relevant part: (a) Complete withdrawal from the occupied Arab territories, including the Syrian Golan Heights, to the 4 June 1967 line and the territories still occupied in southern Lebanon; ( Attain a just solution to the problem of Palestinian refugees to be agreed upon in accordance with the UN General Assembly Resolution No 194. © Accept the establishment of an independent and sovereign Palestinian state on the Palestinian territories occupied since 4 June 1967 in the West Bank and Gaza Strip with East Jerusalem as its capital. In return the Arab states will do the following: (a) Consider the Arab–Israeli conflict over, sign a peace agreement with Israel, and achieve peace for all states in the region; ( Establish normal relations with Israel within the framework of this comprehensive peace. Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
Big Guy Posted June 6, 2016 Author Report Posted June 6, 2016 Unfortunately, many Canadians are isolated from the realities of international relations. Looking from the perspective of Canada, It would be to our advantage to deal with both Iran and Israel but because Israel has made this impossible, Iran has to be our choice. These Persians were once our friends and have much to offer Canada - from trade to tourism to military to ... Israel has nothing but a future of a series of conflicts which she may or may not survive. Israel owes Canada nothing and Canada owes Israel nothing - we certainly do not owe her dragging us into another war. Canada already engages a number of nations who have governments with which we do not fully agree: from China to Cuba. The future of the Middle East is Iran. It is time for Canada to engage seriously with Iran. Engagement should not be confused with warmth and agreement. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
DogOnPorch Posted June 7, 2016 Report Posted June 7, 2016 You have claimed explicitly here on many occasions that you do not care about Israel. Your evasive way of defending Israel on every occasion says otherwise. Next time I wanted to know your opinion about my command of English I will let you know. No one asked you and frankly it doesn't matter. At least there is some coherency in the debate unlike some. That has nothing to do with English... I'm not the one starting pro-Iran/Hamas/anti-Israel threads. I have NEVER started one. But, by golly, I do finish most of them...fixing your mistakes and such. I have no more interest in the history of the Arab-Israeli Conflict as I do in Viet-Nam, Korea, WW1 or WW2...etc. But, I do like to straighten-out folks that make-up their own version of history. Their predecessors didn't fight any war they had no national army to declare war. The Mufti most certainly had his own army... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_the_Holy_War Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
GostHacked Posted June 7, 2016 Report Posted June 7, 2016 Damn, I wonder if there was anyone else besides Mufti. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted June 7, 2016 Report Posted June 7, 2016 Damn, I wonder if there was anyone else besides Mufti. The Mufti founded the Palestinian Cause and then handed it over to his nephew, Yasser Arafat. Pretty hard to discuss the Arab-Israeli conflict w/o mentioning the Mufti and how he joined with the Nazis to commit the Final Solution. ...I know you would...but that's not reality. As for Iran, the Mullahs are very much like the Mufti in their philosophy re: Jews. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
kactus Posted June 7, 2016 Report Posted June 7, 2016 The Mufti founded the Palestinian Cause and then handed it over to his nephew, Yasser Arafat. Pretty hard to discuss the Arab-Israeli conflict w/o mentioning the Mufti and how he joined with the Nazis to commit the Final Solution. ...I know you would...but that's not reality. As for Iran, the Mullahs are very much like the Mufti in their philosophy re: Jews. That why there are still jews living in Iran... Try harder....next time the mud will stick. Not! Quote
DogOnPorch Posted June 7, 2016 Report Posted June 7, 2016 That why there are still jews living in Iran... Try harder....next time the mud will stick. Not! There is only a tiny fraction of the once huge Jewish community left in Iran. Under 10,000 by current sources. Those that could flee the Mullahs did long ago...and it wasn't just Jews. Anybody not keen on religious fascism (with the means to leave)...hit the road. Which is why there is a huge Persian diaspora around the globe. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
herples Posted June 7, 2016 Report Posted June 7, 2016 The Mufti most certainly had his own army... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_of_the_Holy_War What is your point? Quote
DogOnPorch Posted June 7, 2016 Report Posted June 7, 2016 What is your point? Your post said otherwise. The Army of the Holy War was commanded by one of the Mufti's many nephews who was KIA during the 1948 War. A popular fellow on the Arab side and a pretty good soldier. He had worked with the Mufti during WW2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_al-Qadir_al-Husayni Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
herples Posted June 7, 2016 Report Posted June 7, 2016 (edited) Your post said otherwise. The Army of the Holy War was commanded by one of the Mufti's many nephews who was KIA during the 1948 War. A popular fellow on the Arab side and a pretty good soldier. He had worked with the Mufti during WW2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_al-Qadir_al-Husayni Not really a national army. More of a militia than an army. There was no army on the other side either. Edited June 7, 2016 by herples Quote
DogOnPorch Posted June 7, 2016 Report Posted June 7, 2016 Not really a national army. More of a militia than an army. There was no army on the other side either. It was the Hamas of the day. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
herples Posted June 7, 2016 Report Posted June 7, 2016 (edited) It was the Hamas of the day. Again what is your point? What were the Irgun and Lehi when they planted bombs in crowded markets? Are they the Hamas of the day as well? Edited June 7, 2016 by herples Quote
DogOnPorch Posted June 8, 2016 Report Posted June 8, 2016 Again what is your point? What were the Irgun and Lehi when they planted bombs in crowded markets? Are they the Hamas of the day as well? Irgun was declared a terrorist organization by three groups: Haganah, The Jewish Agency of Palestine and...of course...the British who were often Irgun's target...sitting in cafes, etc. Haganah eventually went into a brief war with Irgun that climaxed in the Altalena Affair which was key in the curbing of Jewish terrorism. The Arabs never had a similar rejection of terrorism...and continue to use terrorism to this day. Irgun was created as a result of the Grand Mufti's pogroms as we've already discussed and you rejected. Before 1979....Israel and Iran were close friends. Israel bought Iranian oil and Iran bought Israeli technology. Good times... Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
marcus Posted June 8, 2016 Report Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) The Arabs never had a similar rejection of terrorism The Jews in Israel had so much "rejection" of terrorism that their terrorist groups ended up assimilating into the IDF and two of their leaders eventually became Prime Ministers of Israel. They continue to "reject" terrorism with their indiscriminate killings of civilians (1, 2, 3). I blame the Mufti for all of that. Also, I just stepped on a piece of lego and the Mufti is to be blamed for that. MUUUUUFFFTI!! Edited June 8, 2016 by marcus Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
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