Argus Posted September 9, 2015 Report Posted September 9, 2015 You seem very confident that the world sees things as superficially as you do. I'm confident that the intelligent people in the world don't hate Jews the way the Arab nations - and Iran - and their allies here do. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 9, 2015 Report Posted September 9, 2015 ....And yes yes yes you will support Bush on this forum because you feel Israel should attach itself to the tail of US or Canada and anything that happens to Israel tantamount to happening to US/ Canada. This comes from constant paranoia/ fear that one day that attachment will go away. The reality is all you really care about is Israel not US or Canada... Anyway, this is not about Argus or Bush for that matter. Be a man and stand firm for what is right rather than lying to yourself and us claiming your views on Israel are unbiased. Nothing special about Canada in this regard compared to Israel...both nations have and will continue to court favour from American foreign and domestic policies. Both seek to maintain their U.S. alliance, military support, and bilateral trade. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
eyeball Posted September 9, 2015 Report Posted September 9, 2015 No, I'm painting a nation with unreasoning and violent hatred for Jews and Israel to the surrounding nations who also have unreasoning and violent hatred for Jews and Israel. Also in common, all of them are brutal dictatorships with no respect for individual rights or freedoms. Also in common, they all get flooded with weapons and reasons to use them from the usual suspects. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
marcus Posted September 9, 2015 Report Posted September 9, 2015 I'm confident that the intelligent people in the world don't hate Jews the way the Arab nations - and Iran - and their allies here do. You're lumping again. Let me lay it out in front of you: - How many Jews are there in Iran? Around 10,000 - How many synagogues are in Iran? 25 synagogues - Are they free to leave Iran and move to Israel (and get lots of goodies from Israel)? Yes. - Can they participate in government? Yes. - Are they persecuted because they are Jewish? No. Repeating misinformation after you have learned about it is not healthy in a forum debate. So I hope you resist repeating the same thing and make an effort to learn about the differences between groups, including their culture and dynamics between each other, in the Middle East. Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
Big Guy Posted September 9, 2015 Author Report Posted September 9, 2015 Why let facts get in the way of good invective? Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Argus Posted September 9, 2015 Report Posted September 9, 2015 Also in common, they all get flooded with weapons and reasons to use them from the usual suspects. Because it's not like they go out and buy them or anything, right? I mean, it's not like they can use telephones and order stuff, or go out and barter and trade and make deals, not like they're, you know, human adults. No, they're just helpless children, naive and innocent, who have evil foreigners arrive unwanted to dance around tossing AK-47s at them like candy canes. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted September 9, 2015 Report Posted September 9, 2015 You're lumping again. Let me lay it out in front of you: - How many Jews are there in Iran? Around 10,000 You're seriously trying to defend a nation which held a cartoon contest on the Holocaust as being friendly to Jews? Iran's media is filled with Anti-Semitic images and statements, and the terms "Jew" and "Zionist' are used interchangeably. Much as I suspect you use them when not being careful. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potemkin_village Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
eyeball Posted September 9, 2015 Report Posted September 9, 2015 Because it's not like they go out and buy them or anything, right? Actually it's a lot like that Our governments often provide the money they need. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
kactus Posted September 9, 2015 Report Posted September 9, 2015 (edited) You're seriously trying to defend a nation which held a cartoon contest on the Holocaust as being friendly to Jews? Iran's media is filled with Anti-Semitic images and statements, and the terms "Jew" and "Zionist' are used interchangeably. Much as I suspect you use them when not being careful. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potemkin_village You do realise that wiki is not a vetted source...You can do better than that. In all honesty if you have deep insight about the Iranian culture and its people then fine let's talk about it. But to stand firm on a viewpoint that isn't valid is just silly. Repeating the same old news (as one does) isn't controversial. However, if you have lived in a culture or know their people that is a genuine wisdom, but it is rare. Edited September 9, 2015 by kactus Quote
GostHacked Posted September 9, 2015 Report Posted September 9, 2015 You're seriously trying to defend a nation which held a cartoon contest on the Holocaust as being friendly to Jews? Iran's media is filled with Anti-Semitic images and statements, and the terms "Jew" and "Zionist' are used interchangeably. Much as I suspect you use them when not being careful. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potemkin_village How about something that is taking place within our own borders in Canada? http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/national-post-view-quebec-hate-speech-bill-would-re-establish-bureaucratic-despotism Bill 59, on which consultations are to start next week, is far more worrisome. Bill 59 assigns new powers to the Quebec Human Rights Commission (QHRC) to combat hate speech, as well as a variety of other provisions meant to protect against extremism, by censoring speech that promotes “fear of the other.” Ominously, the bill would allow the QHRC to pursue websites that in its estimation describe and denounce Islamism. Quote
Argus Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 You do realise that wiki is not a vetted source...You can do better than that. In all honesty if you have deep insight about the Iranian culture and its people then fine let's talk about it. But to stand firm on a viewpoint that isn't valid is just silly. Repeating the same old news (as one does) isn't controversial. However, if you have lived in a culture or know their people that is a genuine wisdom, but it is rare. I ask you the same as I've asked others. Explain Iran's unyielding hostility towards Israel over the years. Explain why they are repeatedly committing acts of war against Israel by funding, arming and advising groups which attack Israel. So far the only reason I'm getting is Iran's deep and abiding concern about human rights violations. Considering the abysmal record of human right violations Iran has and continues to engage in that's a joke, even if you leave out the fact they're supporting the Syrian regime, which has slaughtered tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of its own people. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Bonam Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 I ask you the same as I've asked others. Explain Iran's unyielding hostility towards Israel over the years. Israel is a convenient scapegoat. When things aren't going well, people tend to get unhappy with their governments. One way for governments to keep their grip on power is to point at a particular group and paint it as the enemy (the scapegoat), and assign fault for the various problems to the scapegoat. In the case of Israel, it's easy to do... not only is there plenty of religious and historical precedent for Muslims to hate Jews, but they have all those juicy pallywood photos/videos to show of the evil "zionists" oppressing their "fellow Muslims". Of course, once you've made a certain group or nation into "the enemy" in the eyes of your people to curb domestic unrest, you then have to take action against that enemy. This is the same reason that Arab states have for decades refused to make any contribution in helping to resolve the issue of a Palestinian state and have kept generations of Palestinians in refugee camps... so long as the problem continues, they can try to keep their own populations distracted from the failure of their governments and focused on hatred of Israel. Quote
kactus Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 When Iran's nuclear ambition was on spotlight many people literally jumped on the "bandwagon" complaining that Iran is a threat to Israel. Thankfully, now that the negotitions are underway and in progress we are witnessing yet again the goal posts are shifted. This time to human right records in Iran. How convenient... Obviously if there was a mileage to still winge about Iran not abiding to promises on nuclear deal they will still be nagging about Iran being a threat to Israel. Now the attention s diverted to poor human right records in Iran as if they cared what was going on there in the last 40 years. Mind baffling. This will never stop and it is digging a bigger hole that wasn't there. It is actually Iran that has been made a scapegoat by Israel and its policies to create and prolong that hostility. It suits the agenda and their foreign policy to stay close to US unreservedly and yet complain about Iran's domestic human right's records which doesn't quite frankly wash up as it was never their concern. It is hiwever a tactical scopegoat to give Israel a free hand to carry on with what they do with their arab buddies. Quote
marcus Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) You're seriously trying to defend a nation which held a cartoon contest on the Holocaust as being friendly to Jews? Iran's media is filled with Anti-Semitic images and statements, and the terms "Jew" and "Zionist' are used interchangeably. Much as I suspect you use them when not being careful. Stupid comments are made all the time by all sides in all countries. But this is no excuse for you to try to change narratives. The cartoon contest wasn't a "deny the holocaust cartoon contest" or an anti-Jew contest. FYI: International Holocaust Cartoon Contest was a cartoon competition sponsored by the Iranian newspaper Hamshahri, to denounce what it called "Western hypocrisy on freedom of speech". The event was staged in response to the Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy, and to challenge Western accounts of the Holocaust. Once again, I urge you to learn about the things you so passionately want to talk about and accept information given to you. I don't expect you to thank me for giving you information but to at least come away with it having learned something. By the way, here is the winner of the contest: Edited September 10, 2015 by marcus Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
Argus Posted September 10, 2015 Report Posted September 10, 2015 When Iran's nuclear ambition was on spotlight many people literally jumped on the "bandwagon" complaining that Iran is a threat to Israel. Is that so? That wouldn't have anything to do with their repeated threats to destroy Israel, would it? Or their furnishing weapons, money and advisers to groups that kill Israelis? Now the attention s diverted to poor human right records in Iran as if they cared what was going on there in the last 40 years. Didn't Canada break relations with Iran over its poor human rights, among other things? It is actually Iran that has been made a scapegoat by Israel and its policies to create and prolong that hostility. So Iran's behaviour has nothing to do with it. It's just those sneaky, calculating Jews? It suits the agenda and their foreign policy to stay close to US unreservedly And yet Israel's relationship with the US has been poor for years now. Hmmmmm. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
kactus Posted September 11, 2015 Report Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) Is that so? That wouldn't have anything to do with their repeated threats to destroy Israel, would it? Or their furnishing weapons, money and advisers to groups that kill Israelis?You got your wires mixed up...It is Israelis that are killing Iranians: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-pushing-israel-to-stop-assassinating-iranian-nuclear-scientists/ Didn't Canada break relations with Iran over its poor human rights, among other things?If you are referring to the treatment and killing of the iranian/ canadian photographer Zahra Kazemi by the agents many years ago yes you are right. She was arrested and mistaken for a spy. But my point is Iran's human right records comes way down the list when compared to the alleged nuclear arms ambition. My point of contention is poor human rights is used as a 'vehicle' to put Iran on spotlight when all other options fail and it is not because of compassionate ground or sympathy with Iranian people. It's just politics.... So Iran's behaviour has nothing to do with it. It's just those sneaky, calculating Jews?And yet Israel's relationship with the US has been poor for years now. Hmmmmm.Yes it is those 'sneaky, calculating' policies of the israeli government...The above link is just an example of many terrorist acts Israel commits against another sovereign nation. US relationship with Israel has been at all time low thanks to Obama administration vis a vis foreign policies... And I don't need to tell you that he is not much loved in Israel for being black and having a muslim background. Edited September 11, 2015 by kactus Quote
Argus Posted September 12, 2015 Report Posted September 12, 2015 You got your wires mixed up... It is Israelis that are killing Iranians: So you're another one who is going to try and dance around my question of why Iran has been threatening to destroy Israel for the last thirty years, right? You're going to try and pretend it's all the Jews fault and those poor, innocent Iranians are only freedom loving democrats? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
SpankyMcFarland Posted September 12, 2015 Report Posted September 12, 2015 The Iranians negotiated well and left the US with no good options. The rest of the world abandoned sanctions, leaving the US to pursue a Cuba type policy or come to the table. The hope will be that the religious authorities will gradually retreat from the public sphere and take on a benevolent role similar to Sistani's in Iraq, leaving society to develop on a more secular and peaceful path. This will not happen with the current CEO. Quote
Rue Posted September 12, 2015 Report Posted September 12, 2015 Spanky you revising history. It was Obama who initiated the lifting of sanctions not Europe. At this point you are revising the actual negotiations. Start with France and Italy and go find out what there actual positions were. Then go find out what Germany and Britain said. It was Obama who initiated the lifting of sanctions only after he lost control of ISIL and decided he needed Iran on his side to put them down. To this day Obama who is trying to forge an alliancw with Iran is being ridiculed by them and their closest allies China and Russia. You really need to stop revising history to create this concept called the world you refer to. What world. The majority of nations in the world have nothing to say about the ME. Quote
marcus Posted September 14, 2015 Report Posted September 14, 2015 At this point you are revising the actual negotiations. Start with France and Italy and go find out what there actual positions were. Then go find out what Germany and Britain said. You really need to stop revising history to create this concept called the world you refer to. What world. The majority of nations in the world have nothing to say about the ME. Reality called: Cameron, Hollande and Merkel: Why we support the Iran deal We fully support this agreement because it achieves the goals we had set ourselves. It deals with the uranium enrichment route to a bomb by requiring Iran to reduce by 98 percent its stockpile of enriched uranium; to lower by two-thirds the number of its centrifuges; to limit uranium enrichment levels; and to stop using the deep Fordow site for enrichment. It closes the plutonium route through changes to the Arak reactor so that it does not produce weapons-grade plutonium. And it ensures the IAEA enhanced access not only to Iran’s nuclear facilities and the entire nuclear fuel cycle but also, where needed, to any undeclared site. In return, Iran will get phased relief from nuclear-related sanctions — but only as it meets its own commitments in concrete ways, verified by the IAEA. And we have all agreed on provisions for the return of sanctions if Iran were to substantially breach the agreement. Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
SpankyMcFarland Posted September 14, 2015 Report Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) Spanky you revising history. It was Obama who initiated the lifting of sanctions not Europe. At this point you are revising the actual negotiations. Start with France and Italy and go find out what there actual positions were. Then go find out what Germany and Britain said. It was Obama who initiated the lifting of sanctions only after he lost control of ISIL and decided he needed Iran on his side to put them down. To this day Obama who is trying to forge an alliancw with Iran is being ridiculed by them and their closest allies China and Russia. You really need to stop revising history to create this concept called the world you refer to. What world. The majority of nations in the world have nothing to say about the ME. What I am talking about is the recent debate in the US about rejecting the deal which was completely unrealistic. There really was no alternative to the deal at that stage. If Congress had succeeded in foiling the President, US prestige would have suffered enormously and sanctions were dead anyway outside the US, so effectively dead. Judge countries by what they have done and what they can do. Iran will be in no position to threaten North America for decades to come. Israel has hundreds of nukes it has already rehearsed hitting Iran with. We have far bigger worries than Iran in Russia, East Asia. And South Asia. And BTW most countries in the world have an opinion on the ME. Edited September 14, 2015 by SpankyMcFarland Quote
Rue Posted September 15, 2015 Report Posted September 15, 2015 Spanky Iran already is in a position to threaten many countries not just Israel. Take a look at the missiles they have and their range. Keep in mind as well a chemical war head is just as dangerous if not more than a nuclear one and all it takes is one fundamentalist Shitte with a germ or dirty weapon to take down an entire city. So this concept of Iran using a conventional war to attack is obsolete. Conventional wars are passe. Today's attacks with missiles come after the fact. They might be used by Hamas for publicity but not by Iran. The reason for that is mutual deterrence or madness. What keeps Iran holding back Hezbollah which has the capacity to blow out Israel, is blow back. MAD is a precarious psychological balancing act. We rely on it now to keep Pakistan and India from blowing each other up or NATO v. Russia. Its very very precarious. It w orks on balancing conventional wars, but tday one mad man creates unpredicted results. Just one mad man. Iran is threatening the world Spanky. How you deny that is amazing. It finances terrorists in South, Central and North America, Europe, China. Indonesia, Philippines, Malaysia, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Sudan, Syria, Bahrain, Yemen, Iraq, Kurdistan, Kudish Iraq, Somalia, Nigeria, Malawi to name but a few areas. How can you be so oblivious to its terrorist activities and pretend its a benevolent nation. How naïve can you get? Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted September 15, 2015 Report Posted September 15, 2015 (edited) Iran's actions in recent years have been rational and regional. I see no reason for that to change. The Shia of Saudi Arabia and Bahrain have suffered serious discrimination. Unrest in that group is the fault of the local governments. Russia, China and Pakistan are far more worrying to me than Iran. Edited September 15, 2015 by SpankyMcFarland Quote
marcus Posted September 16, 2015 Report Posted September 16, 2015 Spanky Iran already is in a position to threaten many countries not just Israel. Take a look at the missiles they have and their range. Keep in mind as well a chemical war head Once again you are dripping with hypocrisy and double standards; Israel and many other countries have long range missiles and chemical war heads. Not to mention between 200-400 nuclear weapons. Or should we just forget about that because Israel should be treated differently? Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
Canada_First Posted September 16, 2015 Report Posted September 16, 2015 Once again you are dripping with hypocrisy and double standards; Israel and many other countries have long range missiles and chemical war heads. Not to mention between 200-400 nuclear weapons. Or should we just forget about that because Israel should be treated differently? Israel is an honorable country and one of out best friends. They are trustworthy. Iran kills homosexuals. They cannot be trusted. Islamic nations cannot be trusted. Quote
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