Surprise! Israel refuses cooperation with UN Gaza war probe

[dre]

The constitutions of Hamas, ISIL, Al Quaeda, the PFLP, Fatah Hawks, Intifada Palestine, call for a world wide Muslim caliphate and a global war to rid it of Jews. Anyone can read the constitutions. For you to deny them is deliberate.

I didnt even express an opinion on that, never mind deny anything. As usually people are left wondering what the hell it is youre even talking about?

Now you want to show me a post where I have called for ethnic cleansing? Go on. Find one.

I never claimed you did... Youre talking to imaginary voices in your head.

Find any thread where I support and called upon removing Palestinians from the West Bank.

.

I dont remember you calling for the removal of Palestinians from the west bank, nor did I accuse you of taking that position. You DO however support an entity that has been engaging in that behavior.

Either put up or shut up with the continually false misrepresentations and accusations as to what I have said or expressed as opinion or supported by opinion

Youre basic failure at fundamental reading comprehension makes that statement irrelevent.

Finally you now need to defend what Eye said. You want to join Moonlight Graham and explain to me how giving a slice of Germany to Jews as a solution to the conflict in the Middle East does not refer to deporting them to Germany?

I dont have to defend what ANYONE said, and I was really clear on that point. I replied and said that Jews in Israel were born there, and they shouldnt have to go anywhere at all. Guess you missed it.

Explain to me how wiping out Zionism does not mean killing Zionists and how taking a slice out of Germany and giving it to Jews does not mean shipping Jews there.

This has been explained over and over again. You dont have to kill all of those who subscribe to a political movement in order to stop that movement. We didnt have to wipe out white south africans to end aparthied either.

Having said that... I would not personally use terms like "wiping out" or "cancerous". I dont think they are helpful.

Edited November 21, 2014 by dre

[On Guard for Thee]

Elton John is taken. We are thinking of Harvey Fierstein.

Why don't you apply for the job?

[jbg]

No YOU tend to equate it as a means of deflecting discussion away from Israels behavior as a state. It gives you a convenient way to simply dismiss people as being racists. You even denounce other jews that are critical of Israeli policy as anti-semites: "self loathing jews" is the term thrown around there.

Its just your typical cowardly BS... nothing more.

According to you.

In the real world, anti-Zionism is being against a disturbing, inhumane ideology.

Your goal is to delegitimize Israel as a state. Can any government not react to rockets being lobbed into its territory or its places or worship being attacked?

Edited November 22, 2014 by jbg

[Argus]

This sort of racist and bigoted thinking and conversation does not warrant a debate.

Reality's intrusion into your strange little world is unwelcome and frightening, eh?

[Argus]

Nobody is calling for Israel to be wiped out, or lose the collective right to self determination.

Hamas is. Hezbollah is. Iran is. And the PLO, since they cling to the demand of 'the right to return' also is.

So this statement is demonstrably false.

[Argus]

Anti-Zionism these days tends to equate to anti-Judaism. Why is it that Israel's alleged depredations concern many so much more than the out and out atrocities committed by the other side. Come on, meat cleaver attacks on worshipers in synagogues?

Not all those who hate Israel are anti-Semites. On the other hand, all anti-Semites hate Israel.

With Zionism, it's been my experience the vast majority of people outside Israel and the Jewish Diaspora don't even know what it is. Non Jews using it, castigating it, denouncing it, tend to be ideologues of a certain type. Not all are anti-Semites, but in my experience, most of them are. They simply find themselves unable, in western society, to openly express their hate of Jews, so they use the term Zionist to cloak their bigotry.

[-TSS-]

I find it quite astonishing that the countries which have recognized Palestine include all the ex-Eastern block countries and until recently none of the Western-European countries until the newly-elected Swedish government decided to recognize Palestine.

When I was talking about this with my more educated friend he pointed out that there is nothing ex about the Eastern-block countries regarding this issue. Eastern Europeans just hate Jews and do whatever to annoy Israel like recognizing Palestine as if they cared anything about Palestine itself.

[Bonam]

I find it quite astonishing that the countries which have recognized Palestine include all the ex-Eastern block countries and until recently none of the Western-European countries until the newly-elected Swedish government decided to recognize Palestine.

When I was talking about this with my more educated friend he pointed out that there is nothing ex about the Eastern-block countries regarding this issue. Eastern Europeans just hate Jews and do whatever to annoy Israel like recognizing Palestine as if they cared anything about Palestine itself.

Hatred of Jews has always been, and still is today, almost universal in eastern Europe. If you live in eastern Europe and are not a Jew, you hate Jews. That's just how it is and has always been. It's ingrained in the culture, the language, and the collective consciousness. Of course, most people on this discussion board, Canadians, are blissfully unaware of such things.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Bonam

[eyeball]

explain to me how giving a slice of Germany to Jews as a solution to the conflict in the Middle East does not refer to deporting them to Germany?

The suggestion specifically referred to the piece of Germany as being a reparation for the Holocaust - if anything it refers to deporting Germans to Germany.

[eyeball]

So what? If it was anyone else they would have long since been told to get over it already.

[-TSS-]

It isn't just the name. Israel is a specific location. I think that people should read a little bit . Israel was promised by God to the Jews in the book of Genesis.

Excuse me for being a bit provocative but I can't help saying that international law shouldn't be based on what is written in fairytale-books.

On a serious note, there can not be a lasting peace without some sort of two-state solution but unfortunately that seems to a remote option.

[Rue]

Why don't you apply for the job?

I am a Zionist. We don't have Queens,Kings, Princes or Princesses, just Jews like me and by the way the only country in the Middle East that protects gays whether they are Muslim or Jewish from death and discrimination as is the case with Sharia Law nations.

Thanks but don't try lead. I just will end up stepping all over you.

[On Guard for Thee]

I am a Zionist. We don't have Queens,Kings, Princes or Princesses, just Jews like me and by the way the only country in the Middle East that protects gays whether they are Muslim or Jewish from death and discrimination as is the case with Sharia Law nations.

Thanks but don't try lead. I just will end up stepping all over you.

What does "try lead" mean anyway? I doubt you'll be stepping all over anybody.

[Rue]

The suggestion specifically referred to the piece of Germany as being a reparation for the Holocaust - if anything it refers to deporting Germans to Germany.

Right. Now you want to deport Germans to Germany to resolve the conflict in the Middle East.

[Rue]

What does "try lead" mean anyway? I doubt you'll be stepping all over anybody.

Well for example it refers to the concept that enables me to illicit responses from anti Israeli posters that become more and more absurd as they try deny what they originally stated.

So for example we have someone who claims wiping out Zionism like cancer has nothing to do with wiping out Zionist Jews but won't explain why and has actually three times not just once demonstrated that and another stating when he says give Jews a slice of Germany to resolve the Middle East conflict he actually meant deporting Germans to Germany,

It also means I can get another poster to attack imaginary web sites I never presented him with and then have him show he is unable to actually respond to what is on the web-sites he attacked.

It means being able to get that person who claimed to be reasonable to state he dismissed someone's report not because he read it and has things to challenge it with but simply because he thinks the person's last name sounds "wingnut;.

It also enables me to get another anti Israeli poster to parrot him and make the bigoted comment that if words come from a Coptic Christian web site they must automatically have no credibility.

It also enables me to get another poster to flip and flop disagreeing with me while agreeing with me then denying what he said after he just said it. Lol.

So you might say it means having Zionist Jewish fun.

Any other questions... because the attempt to insult me and call me a Queen is typical of this Zionist Jewish fun I illicit or "lead"..

You of course had no clue that Harvey Fierstein is openly proud to be both a Zionist and a Queen.No not you. You had it all figured it was an insult so you could turn it on me and now I rhyme it with tee hee.

If you have a problem with my monarchy advice to Bush understand this. His people rebelled from a King. Bush is an American and so as a loyal subject of the Queen I was trying to give him advice. Americans don't understand about Queens and Kings. They think it means a region in New York, some old Jewish guy who had a talk show on CNN, this wierd musician or Queen Latifah.

Then again theydo have Shiek Obama , Baron Schwartznegger and the Jewish American Princess,Sarah Silverman.

Also they had a band called Queen and they worship Muhammed, but in their case it refers to a boxer.

Hope that explains it.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Rue

[On Guard for Thee]

Well for example it this "lead"enables me to inspire responses from Eye and Hudson Jones that become more and more absurd as they try

deny their words. We have someone who claims wiping out Zionism like cancer has nothing to do with wiping out Zionist Jews and another stating when he says give Jews a slice of Germany to resolve the Middle East conflict it means deporting Germans to Germany,

It also means I can get another poster to attack imaginary web sites and then remain silent unable to actually respond to what is on web-sites he is given while he dismisses a web-site and not the contents of a report because he thinks the last name of someone sounds funny.

It also enables me to get another person to parrot that same "reasoning" and make the bigoted comment that if words come from a Coptic Christian site they automatically have no credibility.

It also enables me to get another poster to flip and flop denying what he says trying to give it new meanings and personally attack me.

Leading has two meanings actually. One in law for cuing the answer into the question. The other is a device to lure people into stating the exact positions they deny.

Any other questions because the attempt to insult me and call me a Queen is fun. Harvey Fierstein is openly proud to be both a Zionist and a Queen something that soared over your head. ZIp zap and zowee. I got those words from Fred Astaire, He taught me a lot at how to dance around denial or as we spell it on this thread DEE Nile.

I got to dance around Dee Nile one time. Yep, working in Khartoum. Way ahead of ya.

[Smallc]

If you believe it's a fairytale, that's fine but I don't think there is any need to be rude.

Maybe, but as he said, there's no reason to base law on religious beliefs.

I am one of those people who support Israel and at the same time abhors the idea of a religious state.

[Bonam]

Maybe, but as he said, there's no reason to base law on religious beliefs.

I am one of those people who support Israel and at the same time abhors the idea of a religious state.

As are most of Israel's supporters. After all, Israel is by far the most secular and least religious state in the middle-east. In fact, fully half of Israel's population is not religious, more than many supposedly enlightened Western nations, including the United States, Austria, Portugal, Italy, etc.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Bonam

[Smallc]

I'm actually more directing that at the people who are adamant that Israel must be a Jewish state. I don't see that as important.

[Bonam]

I'm actually more directing that at the people who are adamant that Israel must be a Jewish state. I don't see that as important.

Neither do I, of course, in the sense that you mean it.

But the point of recognizing Israel as a Jewish state isn't in regards to Israel's character as a state or enshrining Judaism as a part of government. The point of recognizing Israel as a Jewish state actually means an acknowledgement of the reality that the millions of Arab "refugees" are not going to be returning to Israel proper. It is a recognition of the fact that Israel should not be forced to commit demographic suicide by importing millions more Arabs. One of the sticking points in many iterations of negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians has been their repeated demand that all or some of these Arabs must be allowed to settle in Israel proper, and the recognition of Israel as a Jewish state means recognizing that Israel is a state for Jews (i.e. people who self-identify as ethnically Jewish and/or people who follow Judaism), which of course is the whole point of Israel's existence (much like the newly formed Palestine would be a state for Palestinians). It is an acknowledgement that Israel can set its own immigration policies, without being subject to Palestinian demands for it to self-destruct.

Now, I do agree, that the language of Israel being a Jewish state is probably an onerous requirement for various Arab factions to agree to. Phrased that way, I do not think it is a good precondition. But the precondition of acknowledging that Israel will not be forced to allow millions of Arabs to immigrate to within its final borders is a perfectly reasonable and legitimate one. And the difference is merely a semantic one. The semantics are purposefully chosen by Likud to be an impediment to negotiations (since the Obama presidency would be a terrible time for Israel to try to come to a final agreement with the Palestinians), but any Israeli government would demand the same thing, only phrased more palatably.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Bonam

[eyeball]

Right. Now you want to deport Germans to Germany to resolve the conflict in the Middle East.

No I don't, I don't want to force my suggestion on anyone. While I still think it would be the decent thing to do Germany is as free to reject it as you.

[Rue]

It is idiotic to try suggest Israelis are Germans and therefore should be deported t Germany.

It is absolutely idiotic to tell anyone born in a country and who is a citizen of that country they are not a citizen of that country and must move.

It is also deeply ignorant and insensitive to suggest that to people who are descended from people who had to flee Germany but many European and Arab nations and then Ethiopia and Russia.

Your ignorance of the origins of Jews speaks for itself as do your alleged suggestions to alleviate a conflict you clearly do not understand.

Whether these people are Israeli or Palestinian they have a right to live where they live.

No you do not suggest you deport only certain people in favour of others.

The reality is the status quo. The reality is where people today, now as we speak live. Neither is going anywhere.

Get it clear. You are in no position to deport any Jew anywhere.

That is the very reason Israel came about. To assure that will NEVER AGAIN happen.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Rue

[Rue]

Well Capt.Canada we can move those Germans to oh say Iraq or maybe Syria.

[bush_cheney2004]

Ain't nobody deporting Israelis or Jews to Germany. Israel exists because of the will and determination to establish a Jewish state. No United Nations required. Canadians (or Americans) who are ideologically opposed to "Zionism" and Israel had just better get over it, as they have neither the will or means to change the status quo.

[Rue]

Eye's continued attempts to try justify his calling on Israelis to be deported to Germany speaks for itself.

He shows a complete ignorance as to the origins of Jews who lived in Israel and then returned there and how only a portion of their ancestors may have at one point lived in Germany.

It also shows a total ignorance as to the law of citizenship by birth site not to mention a selectivity as to which people he wants to deport.