WestCoastRunner Posted November 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 What I care about is the planet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Well at least we can take some hope from the fact that even the most ardent naysayers are finally coming around to understanding the fact the GW is an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) What I care about is the planet.Why? The planet does not care about humans. The planet is not bothered if CO2 concentrations rise or fall. It is a stupid thing to care about. I happen to care about humans and what happens to humans. It yet to see any convincing evidence that the harms to humans caused by CO2 induced warming are worse that the harms to humans caused by artificially increasing the cost of energy. Edited November 13, 2014 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted November 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 To Tim: I will leave you to your world of denial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Why? The planet does not care about humans. The planet is not bothered if CO2 concentrations rise or fall. It is stupid thing to care about. I happen to care about humans and what happens to humans. It yet to see any convincing evidence that the harms to humans caused by CO2 induced warming are worse that the harms to humans caused by artificially increasing the cost of energy. Then you really don't understand science very well. If we keep jacking up CO2 we won't be able to live here. Now I don't really give a shit because I won't be here by the time the place becomes uninhabitable for humans, but I do understand the science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 If you're going to create a topic, be prepared to face the facts related to said topic. Obama's deal punishes America's economy, while rewards Chinas. It's a great recipe for shipping jobs overseas, and hamstringing American manufacturing. America contributes 15% of greenhouse gases, and has to start cutting immediately to reach it's "goal" by 2025. China on the otherhand, contributes 24% of greenhouse gases, and has until 2030 to increase it's greenhouse gases without cutting a single carbon molecule, and then maybe by then will start to do something. And you think that this type of deal should be copied and implemented by Canada? Are you insane? Do you care about the middle class even a bit? Do you care about Canada's manufacturing and energy industries even a bit? This is utter insanity. Thank God you people are in the far fringes of Canadian society. Yeah, and just where do you think China's greenhouse contribution percentages will be in 15 years with absolutely no restraint? It's a joke, and the sad part is the lefties are complete hypocrites about this fact. Complete denial while getting the vapours over what Harper may or may not do. It's sobering to see such a disconnect with reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Yeah, and just where do you think China's greenhouse contribution percentages will be in 15 years with absolutely no restraint? It's a joke, and the sad part is the lefties are complete hypocrites about this fact. Complete denial while getting the vapours over what Harper may or may not do. It's sobering to see such a disconnect with reality. It truly is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) To Tim: I will leave you to your world of denial.Of course, true believers in the AGW cult simply cannot understand why others do not choose to join them in their delusions. But that does not make the delusions true. I have challenged you several times and you refuse to answer: why should others agree to do things they think are a bad idea if you refuse to consider nuclear as the cornerstone of any emission reduction plan? I suspect you refuse to answer because you know your beliefs are not rational which makes you quite the hypocrite for claiming that my opinions are a "denial". Edited November 13, 2014 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 The evidence is so overwhelming that global warming exists that the leaderships of the two largest populations and economies have sat down and agreed something must be done. And some still have their heads in the sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) The evidence is so overwhelming that global warming exists that the leaderships of the two largest populations and economies have sat down and agreed something must be done. And some still have their heads in the sand.Typical misrepresentations of an AGW cultist. I have NEVER said that the earth is not warming. I have NEVER said that CO2 is not a GHG and the cause of said warming. I have NEVER said that I would refuse to support any CO2 reduction plan. I have only said I will not support dumb CO2 reduction plans which cannot possibly work. I have only said that I am not convinced that harms caused by warming to the human population will be worse than the harms caused by the CO2 mitigation policies being put forward. It is a completely rational position based on the evidence available. And BTW - it appears that the leader of China agrees with me. Edited November 13, 2014 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Typical misrepresentations of an AGW cultist. I have NEVER said that the earth is not warming. I have NEVER said that CO2 is not a GHG and the cause of said warming. I have NEVER said that I would refuse to support any CO2 reduction plan. I have only said I will not support dumb CO2 reduction plans which cannot possibly work. I have only said that I am not convinced that harms caused by warming to the human population will be worse than the harms caused by the CO2 mitigation policies being put forward. It is a completely rational position based on the evidence available. And BTW - it appears that the leader of China agrees with me. Well then we have to figure out how to ween ourselves and in a timely fashion. At least if we step away from being blind to the threat, we may be able to come up with solutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Well then we have to figure out how to ween ourselves and in a timely fashion. At least if we step away from being blind to the threat, we may be able to come up with solutions.We have an excellent building block: nuclear power. Any plan that does not make nuclear a key component is a waste of money and time. I am just waiting for the people who claim to care so much about GHGs to accept this reality. So far most seem to be happy living in denial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 We have an excellent building block: nuclear power. Any plan that does not make nuclear a key component is a waste of money and time. I am just waiting for the people who claim to care so much about GHGs to accept this reality. So far most seem to be happy living in denial. I don't disagree that nuclear could be part of the way forward. Unfortunately when it came out of the starting blocks it stumbled badly what with 3 Mile Island and Chernobyl and most recently Fukushima. The other thing is I think a lot of people are afraid of renewable sources because they are afraid their jobs will be lost. We have had to evolve before, I'm sure we can do it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) Unfortunately when it came out of the starting blocks it stumbled badly what with 3 Mile Island and Chernobyl and most recently Fukushima.France has the lowest per capita emissions in the developed world thanks to nuclear. China's 'plan' includes building >50 nuclear reactors. They have no hope of achieving their goal without them. Nuclear power works and it is GHG free. Now if people decide that they would rather live with the risk of CO2 than with the risk of nuclear then that is their choice. But I will not support any 'CO2 reduction scheme' that does not include nuclear as its cornerstone because it is like trying to win a marathon with your shoelaces tied together. Edited November 13, 2014 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Don't you dare talk facts, Tim!! You're talking about Obama here, he is above mere silly things like the fact that China gets to pollute more and more year after year until 2030, while the US stunts their growth with one sided painful reductions on their own economy. I just don't get the break with reality here. It's like an abuser cutting themselves repeatedly because they think they deserve to be punished. They feel better for a while, but soon realize they've been badder than they thought. And China says, "Sure kid, I'll sharpen the knife for you, but damn you're weird!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) Uh no. Interesting that you respond with that though, denial and avoiding the issue. But it does beg the question of why the left is always willing to feel so guilty for american exceptionalism. Guilt and shame, and somehow they must suffer to pay for the "wrong". That's probably why there is such gnashing of teeth by you and other lefties regarding Obama losing the Senate. I guess it's tough to be a liberal these days, but I can never condone self abuse. Forgive and learn to love yourself,lefty. Edited November 13, 2014 by sharkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) It's sad when Canada lags behind China in terms of innovation' ideas, alternative energy and science. Edited November 13, 2014 by The_Squid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 It's sad when Canada lags behind China in terms of innovation' ideas, alternative energy and science. Why ? Chinese culture and innovation began over 5,000 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Well, now that the U.S. and China have stepped up to the plate, will Canada (I mean harper) follow suit. Trudeau has said that he hopes this agreement will 'wake up' Harper and get Canada more involved in addressing environmental concerns. Perhaps this is Obama's legacy item? I think this could be a game changer! I apologize. I tried to copy and paste from the cbc article but it's not working! . I wonder if the USA will get big gains in reducing greenhouse gases the same way that Germany and Russia did a decade ago? You know, with the collapse of smokestack industries in East Germany at the time of unification, it worked wonders for instant 'reductions'. Russia has something similar happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 You must work for Exxon or some such right? Your arguments shouldn't have to take into account somebody's place of business. Don't make this personal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 There are lots of good comments on this thread, but also lots of personal comments. Talk about the arguments, the facts, NOT the poster - how can this not be clear at this point ? We were getting better behavior, and now we're getting a phenomenon where posters are trying to get close to the line and possibly step over it just a bit. The result is a lot more work for the moderators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Anthony Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Folks, Heed MH's warnings. It is not more complicated than that. This thread is locked for about a day to give you all time to reflect on your next post in this thread. Ch. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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