Derek 2.0 Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 Put it that way then there isnt a country on earth that doesnt. Outside failed states like a Somalia, I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 Such FBI stats do not apply to Canada...where there is less lightning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted October 24, 2014 Report Share Posted October 24, 2014 All laws curtail freedoms to some degree. I never said they didnt have laws that curtail freedoms. What I said is the link between liberty and security is for the most part illusory. Powerful militaristic, security obsessed governments dont make their citizens safer they put them in danger. I agree, but clearly there must be a balance.......Of course said balance is often the point of contention between varying views be it not only "terrorism", but encompassing topics like personal drug use/gun control/pit-bull control/fatty foods etc etc etc......... The problem is, its an easy threat to emotionalize, and it conjured up a lot of paranoia, and makes the population fear-dumb. This is a bad time to make decisions on our liberties that we might be stuck with for a long time, and quite frankly the current government hasnt shown much capacity for rational thought. I agree largely. The other problem I have is this... We already have an extremely powerfull and well equipped security apparatus. In these recent cases they simply shat the bed, and didnt even use the tools they have. It might be hard to throw someone in jail without proof beyond a reasonable doubt but the burden to obtain a court order that would give police the authorization to put someone under extremely close surveillance (tap phone, read mail, bug house, bug car) is much lower. The burden there is simply reasonable suspicion. To an extent, but (and I stand to be corrected once the Government's plans are known) proposed changes like allowing CSIS the ability to track suspects abroad or grant further protection to sources in court (as is currently done with criminal informants) does not sound unreasonable. Likewise, if the Government is able to revoke Passports (as current) based on a potential security threat, shouldn't laws preventing the RCMP to further detain/interview said suspects be amended? Again, I'll await until the proposed changes are known though........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) My interpretation of your original post was that these were major factors in the fellows decision to do what he did, as opposed to minor contributors when compared to religious influences. Religious influences. haha. Do you really think he converted to Islam before he was a sympathizer with the political cause? Edited October 25, 2014 by cybercoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 I've no idea. I wasn't sleeping on the floor at the mosque with him. Why do you think he didn't sympathize with the Muslims that ISIS are killing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Since it was mental illness that caused this guy to go over the edge, I wonder if people are going to vandalize mental health institutions now? Or how about the government passing laws to make it easier to revoke someone's passport when they have mental health problems? Or how about making easier to arrest/convict then imprison people burdened with health issues. I'm thinking Harper and Baird are real disappointed that this person's health issues are pushing his Islamic faith to the background. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Yep, this thread is going to get ugly my friends! That standing ovation parliament gave to a teary eyed Vickers, what a hero hey? Here's your hero in action! http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/10/24/michael-zehaf-bibeau-kevin-vickers_n_6044642.html Shooting an already dead man deserves a standing ovation! Guess nobody wants to talk about how Vickers shot an already dead mentaly ill person qualifies as being a hero. WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 And a little humour https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152309932216455&set=p.10152309932216455&type=1 WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Yep, this thread is going to get ugly my friends! That standing ovation parliament gave to a teary eyed Vickers, what a hero hey? Here's your hero in action! http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/10/24/michael-zehaf-bibeau-kevin-vickers_n_6044642.html Shooting an already dead man deserves a standing ovation! Guess nobody wants to talk about how Vickers shot an already dead mentaly ill person qualifies as being a hero. WWWTT You're the one making it ugly. He didn't shoot an already dead man. You're either lying or ignorant. Regardless, yes, shooting and killing an extremely violent mentally ill person absolutely qualifies him as being a hero. Especially since it prevented the extremely violent mentally ill man from killing any other people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poochies Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 How do you draw the line between mental health and evil, is there even a line? Does it matter? I would say the results of their acts matter the most. Don't you have to be a little crazy to kill someone for any reason, but if there is a group of people out there taking advantage of disturbed individuals, pushing them into and directing to some degree their acts, even if it is through hateful rhetoric more than direct planning, isn't that still something that needs to be addressed? Is everyone fighting in the middle east because they are mentally ill or because they believe they have good reason, because they have the right ancestry or the right rules with which to live by, at the end of the day they are still killing people for their beliefs, just like this guy in Ottawa did. Crazy or not, it's not something you shrug your shoulders at and say, o well. There is no question they did this in the name of their religion, without that push they might have been like many other Canadians who suffer with mental illness who could use more help, that doesn't mean you ignore this reality. We have enough sick people who commit violent acts without extremists creating more of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poochies Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Yep, this thread is going to get ugly my friends! That standing ovation parliament gave to a teary eyed Vickers, what a hero hey? Here's your hero in action! http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/10/24/michael-zehaf-bibeau-kevin-vickers_n_6044642.html Shooting an already dead man deserves a standing ovation! Guess nobody wants to talk about how Vickers shot an already dead mentaly ill person qualifies as being a hero. WWWTT Well then pick one of the others who shot him, your post is irrelevant. Someone did what needed doing, and no, they didn't really have time to diagnose his illness at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Don't worry Harper, Baird and the rest of the conservatives, no shots hit the pork barrels! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Don't worry Harper, Baird and the rest of the conservatives, no shots hit the pork barrels! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 You're the one making it ugly. He didn't shoot an already dead man. You're either lying or ignorant. Regardless, yes, shooting and killing an extremely violent mentally ill person absolutely qualifies him as being a hero. Especially since it prevented the extremely violent mentally ill man from killing any other people. Ya I guess he wasn't already dead if he can take 12 bullets and keep on going like super man! Let's completely forget that security already put 12 bullets in this poor mentally stressed guy that Canada failed! But Harper needs a hero right now. And forget doing the right thing, lets keep talking about bad people and how good people shoot bad people, lets all rise and give a thundering standing ovation to someone who we can easily turn into a Hollywood western gun slinging hero! All hail a man with a gun who saved us from another man with a gun because he shot a guy who usually has a gun, but for some reason, didn't have his gun with him! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 LOL! That's freekin funny! Cheers bro! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Well then pick one of the others who shot him, your post is irrelevant. Someone did what needed doing, and no, they didn't really have time to diagnose his illness at that point. Thanks buddy https://www.google.ca/search?q=picture+of+captain+obvious&client=firefox-a&hs=bet&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=fflb&tbm=isch&imgil=-8tsRzpZtvEaJM%253A%253BoKdTwlD3DkGs0M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fpregame.com%25252Fpregame-forums%25252Ff%25252F11%25252Fp%25252F1068048%25252F2213824.aspx&source=iu&pf=m&fir=-8tsRzpZtvEaJM%253A%252CoKdTwlD3DkGs0M%252C_&usg=__N61eR2612-j7FZ_kyTxUZVOFzyk%3D&biw=1366&bih=657&ved=0CDgQyjc&ei=kBVLVKrdOMKsyQT8l4H4Aw WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 You're the one making it ugly. He didn't shoot an already dead man. You're either lying or ignorant. Regardless, yes, shooting and killing an extremely violent mentally ill person absolutely qualifies him as being a hero. Especially since it prevented the extremely violent mentally ill man from killing any other people. From the linked article: The gunman then bolted several metres down the Hall of Honour with police and guards chasing him. Shots were fired. Zehaf Bibeau, his body riddled with bullets, huddled behind a column by the Parliamentary library. It was there that Vickers fired the fatal shots. I fail to see how this changes the narrative..........Do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scared.In.Canada Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 He was a Muslim, he wasn't mentally ill. Are you saying all Muslims are mentally ill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 I fail to see how this changes the narrative..........Do you? Ya because you think that he couldn't be apprehended! A person with already 12 bullets in him cowarding and hiding can't be apprehending? Keep praising the man who shot a man after he was already shot with 12 bullets! You also failed to paste the part where a security officer first tried to wrestle the gun away from him! If there is a hero, it would be that guy! Going to try debating with me or are you going to hide like Harper? LOL! Keep hiding buddy! Keep hiding WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 I think it would be key if Muslims stopped killing Muslims on the other side of the world. The problem stems from us picking sides or playing them against one another...even switching sides... now that's really playing with fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 I guess it was just a natural reaction for Harper to run and hide at the first sign of trouble hey? Here's the link http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/24/canadian-pm-stephen-harper-ottawa-shooting?CMP=fb_gu WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 WWWTT, I don't much think of Harper as the PM but come on, ANY PM or leader would be protected by any means. I first thought that the MP's or security guards would surround him and protect him at way. BTW, IF it wasn't for the Security Guard at the door, which the shooter came in, people wouldn't have known he was there. Apparently, the guard tried to take away the gun but the gun went off and shot him in the foot, so Canada has two heroes that saved the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xul Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) I guess it was just a natural reaction for Harper to run and hide at the first sign of trouble hey? Here's the link http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/24/canadian-pm-stephen-harper-ottawa-shooting?CMP=fb_gu WWWTT I guess conservatives here will say," If lefties allowed Canadian carrying guns like Americans, our boss would have come out and taken on this guy in person" Then so-called lefties will reply, "When the conservative boss was highly praised by Canadian for his courage and valour, the truth would come out----the conservative boss who confronted the gunman was just his decoy. The real boss was still in that cupboard, just like the imposter president taking on Magneto scene in film X-men: Days of Future Past " Edited October 25, 2014 by xul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribblet Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Really, you guys are something else, now the PM was 'hiding in a cupboard', talk about malfeasance and grossly distorting what happened - that he was put there by the RCMP for obvious safety reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted October 25, 2014 Report Share Posted October 25, 2014 Really, you guys are something else, now the PM was 'hiding in a cupboard', talk about malfeasance and grossly distorting what happened - that he was put there by the RCMP for obvious safety reasons. There seem to be some here who'd rather he'd have been shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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