Stephen Harper taking away door to door postal service

[Boges]

That's why Harper's doing it. There's no argument you can make that this makes the service more "useful" for people. It does the exact opposite of that.

Canada Post is doing it because the use of mail, especially important mail. Is plummeting.

[cybercoma]

Canada Post is doing it because the use of mail, especially important mail. Is plummeting.

Canada Post is doing it so he can throw scraps at imbeciles that want to see a race to the bottom amongst the working class.

[Argus]

Canada Post is doing it because the use of mail, especially important mail. Is plummeting.

Don't all the European countries have door to door delivery?

[scribblet]

No one lives in a rural area who doesn't have a car. That's far from the case in the city. Also, the less physically able you are the less likely you are to be living in a rural area, not unless you have a healthy full-time caregiver or partner.

This is not a big deal for me. I'm healthy and have a car. But there is no question some frail seniors are going to die over this, slipping and falling on the ice on their way to or from their mailbox.

How many of the 66% currently not receiving home delivery have died?

[Boges]

Funny how just about every other country on the planet doesn't have complete idiots running their postal service and manage just fine.

Postal services are being privatized in much of Europe. Would you support this?

[segnosaur]

How many of these people live in downtown condos and apartment buildings?

I already pointed out...

While many of those who don't have door delivery live in large buildings, there are roughly 4 million Canadians who currently use super mailboxes.

[Boges]

Canada Post is doing it so he can throw scraps at imbeciles that want to see a race to the bottom amongst the working class.

Cite

[Smallc]

No one lives in a rural area who doesn't have a car. That's far from the case in the city. Also, the less physically able you are the less likely you are to be living in a rural area, not unless you have a healthy full-time caregiver or partner.

This is not a big deal for me. I'm healthy and have a car. But there is no question some frail seniors are going to die over this, slipping and falling on the ice on their way to or from their mailbox.

I know many people that don't own a car here. Nice try.

[Shady]

Don't all the European countries have door to door delivery?

You mean the countries with no growth economies and bankrupt governments?

[Smallc]

Canada Post is doing it so he can throw scraps at imbeciles that want to see a race to the bottom amongst the working class.

When you don't have a point, resort to insulting the rest of us?

[segnosaur]

Sure. I guess it has nothing to do with them raising postage. That had no effect on their bottom line, I guess.

I guess you don't bother reading things that shatter your little world view, do you....

If Canada post didn't sell off buildings, they would likely have suffered another loss.

And I find it amazing that you seem to be braging about how they "raised postage". Smart business sense... drive the cost up of a service that was already loosing business. Wonder how those little old ladies on a fixed income will like having to pay more just to send a birthday card to their grandson.

The fact that they "raised postage" does not mean that the increased postage fees would have been enough to turn a loss into a profit by itself.

[overthere]

I know many people that don't own a car here. Nice try.

The epople I know that don't have cars mostly live in urban situations. They get their mail in the lobby of their building, as they have forever.

If you live in a household delivery neighbourhood, it is likely suburban and there are damn few households who don't have cars there, except perhaps the elderly and disabled.

I don't know why anybody would use a car top pick up at community mailboxes anyway, around here in newer areas they are always within easy walking distance.

[Derek 2.0]

Hyperbole. Great. Thanks for contributing complete idiocy to the conversation.

How have elderly and disabled Canadians, living in rural areas, received their mail for decades? I think the only idiocy is suggesting that a small portion of Canadians being put out by having to get their mail down the street is reason enough to keep home delivery.

[segnosaur]

Don't all the European countries have door to door delivery?

I'm not sure of all the details regarding European countries, but I should point out a few things:

- Europe does use super mailboxes. Not sure if there are any countries where ALL citizens use them, but they do exist. (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_box#Europe)

- Comparing Europe and North America may not give an accurate comparison, since Europe does have a much higher population density (probably leading to lower transportation costs)

- As other people have said, many European countries have introduced privatization into their service. Others regularly run a deficit, or they have a parcel delivery service that subsidizes the regular mail. In britain, Royal Mail lost money for years. They are turning a profit now (but they are priviatized).

[overthere]

I guess you don't bother reading things that shatter your little world view, do you....

If Canada post didn't sell off buildings, they would likely have suffered another loss.

And I find it amazing that you seem to be braging about how they "raised postage". Smart business sense... drive the cost up of a service that was already loosing business. Wonder how those little old ladies on a fixed income will like having to pay more just to send a birthday card to their grandson.

The fact that they "raised postage" does not mean that the increased postage fees would have been enough to turn a loss into a profit by itself.

The increase in first class postage and stopping household delivery are just the latest signals of their corporate direction, which they have not really deviated from in decades. They know that the profit from firs class mail is shrinking and unreliable. They don't really hurt themselves by jacking up first class stamp rates , that sector will be in continuing decline for the foreseeable future since it it unlikely that the Internet is just a fad. Those few people who still enjoy home delivery will soon get over being subsidized by those who don't.

Their strategy has gone away form mail delivery for decades now, it has been focused on distribution. They already have a pretty efficient and pretty comprehensive distribution network with modern facilities for handling and distributing paper/parcels across Canada. And that is where they see their future and their survival, Their admail program will expand. What is really big for them is parcels, and specifically online shopping which is growing greatly. They are well positioned there, right now. Lettermail will be a necessary brdenm, and with the sharp increases in stamp prices should not be a loss leader.

[Shady]

When you don't have a point, resort to insulting the rest of us?

Exactly.

[segnosaur]

No one lives in a rural area who doesn't have a car. That's far from the case in the city. Also, the less physically able you are the less likely you are to be living in a rural area, not unless you have a healthy full-time caregiver or partner.

This is not a big deal for me. I'm healthy and have a car. But there is no question some frail seniors are going to die over this, slipping and falling on the ice on their way to or from their mailbox.

This has already been addressed...

Living in a single family home requires a significant amount of effort... cutting grass, shovelling the sidewalk, etc. (not to mention regular tasks such as getting food, etc.) If someone is living in a single family home, they either 1) have the mobility to do all those tasks themselves, or 2) have someone to do that work for them (whether it be someone they hired, a volunteer, or family member). Mail service could be handled in the same way.

I find it incredible that there are people suggesting there are armies of senior citizens out there who can figure out how to to hire some kid to cut their grass or shovel their walk, but aren't quite smart enough to ask that same kid to pick their mail up when they're done.

[segnosaur]

And I find it amazing that you seem to be braging about how they "raised postage". Smart business sense... drive the cost up of a service that was already loosing business.

The increase in first class postage and stopping household delivery are just the latest signals of their corporate direction, which they have not really deviated from in decades. They know that the profit from firs class mail is shrinking and unreliable. They don't really hurt themselves by jacking up first class stamp rates , that sector will be in continuing decline for the foreseeable future since it it unlikely that the Internet is just a fad. Those few people who still enjoy home delivery will soon get over being subsidized by those who don't.

Their strategy has gone away form mail delivery for decades now, it has been focused on distribution. They already have a pretty efficient and pretty comprehensive distribution network with modern facilities for handling and distributing paper/parcels across Canada. And that is where they see their future and their survival, Their admail program will expand. What is really big for them is parcels, and specifically online shopping which is growing greatly. They are well positioned there, right now. Lettermail will be a necessary brdenm, and with the sharp increases in stamp prices should not be a loss leader.

Hey, don't blame me... blame cybercoma, who keeps harping about how the incredibly genius idea of raising stamp prices somehow kept Canada post profitable. (Ignoring of course contributions from selling off assets, and the parcel delivery system.)

I've already addressed the issue of Canada Post's parcel delivery system. Yes, they are successful at it, and it does turn a profit. I just think its a questionable business decision to keep a successful part of an organization from subsidizing an unsuccessful one.

[Bonam]

I find it incredible that there are people suggesting there are armies of senior citizens out there who can figure out how to to hire some kid to cut their grass or shovel their walk, but aren't quite smart enough to ask that same kid to pick their mail up when they're done.

Indeed. It's a laughable argument. Not sure why people keep repeating it.

[Mighty AC]

I've already addressed the issue of Canada Post's parcel delivery system. Yes, they are successful at it, and it does turn a profit. I just think its a questionable business decision to keep a successful part of an organization from subsidizing an unsuccessful one.

Agreed. As I mentioned earlier, the small percentage of people that physically cannot make the short trip to a superbox are already in need of assistive services to reside in their homes. I think collecting mail once or twice a week could easily be added to their list of required health and maintenance services.

[Boges]

No one is pointing the the obvious benefit of these boxes could be getting fat asses out of their house and walk a little bit.

[segnosaur]

I find it incredible that there are people suggesting there are armies of senior citizens out there who can figure out how to to hire some kid to cut their grass or shovel their walk, but aren't quite smart enough to ask that same kid to pick their mail up when they're done.

Indeed. It's a laughable argument. Not sure why people keep repeating it.

Probably because they realize they don't actually have the facts to back up their arguments, so they use the image of someone's elderly grandmother who's unable to get a letter from her grandson as a way to garner sympathy for their position. A blatant appeal to emotion rather than logic.

(Granted, people in all parts of the political spectrum do it...)

[Shady]

Looks like the forum has pretty much ruled on this matter. Case closed.

[eyeball]

Ok you are right… we should keep this program because of the elderly and disabled. Canada post has to deliver to 100% of the people because 10% of the people may not be able to get to their mailboxes.

I'd have no problem with restructuring things so they only deliver to the 10% that need it.

[overthere]

Hey, don't blame me... blame cybercoma, who keeps harping about how the incredibly genius idea of raising stamp prices somehow kept Canada post profitable.

CPC has a double edged sword with lettermail. They have a monopoly, nobody in Canada can deliver householder mail except them. They also are obliged to deliver to every household, though door service is not reuqired at all under their mandate. They realized this first in the early 80s, soon after incorporation, and acted swiftly on it by denying door service to all new homes. They aslo began the massive programs of closing many rural post offices and privatizing others while begin to shut down home delivery entirely in 1985.. Don't hear much whining about either now, people get used to i

I'd have no problem with restructuring things so they only deliver to the 10% that need it.

perhaps 1% of the 1/3 of homes that currently get delivery to their door.