Big Guy Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 In about 10 days, the citizens of Scotland will be making a decision on separating or not. I have been researching the web to try to find a site(s) that give an IMPARTIAL explanation of the issues. I have been unable to find one. The latest projection indicates a 50-50 chance to go either way. That indicates to me that there are valid reasons on both the YES and the NO side. If anyone has an impartial view or a web page which they would suggest then please share it with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-TSS- Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Whichever way it goes, this is is going to rest. If it is no, then the issue may crop up again in some time in the future but it will be a question of decades. If it is yes it is permanent. There were people saying about Ireland when they got independent 100 years ago that they'll come crawling back begging to be allowed back in. Hasn't happened yet. (Actually, which date do the Irish consider their independence: The Free State-phase or the final breaking of bonds with the UK?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Scotland will accept the additional powers London has offered and we'll be off to the pub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 I really don't care who wins, it's up to Scots. Although much larger and resource-diverse than Scotland, Canada has done very well after breaking from the UK as has the Republic of Ireland so I'm sure the Scotland could do just fine alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted September 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 I like to feel, that I understand the issues when this comes up in discussion socially. I still have no clue as to what the real issues are, why opinions differ so much and why half the population disagrees with each other. Is it a societal thing? A financial thing? A cultural thing? A historical thing? I know the issues must be numerous and complicated and I am trying to understand them before I can make up my own mind and take a substantiated stand on one side. HELP!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) Scotland has oil. Imagine if there were a referendum in Alberta today. Albertans, like the Scots, have a lot in common with the rest of their country. I know that I simplify tremendously but as they say: "Follow the money... " While I disagree with it, I liked Coyne's column about this issue: National Post Link If you're English-Canadian and you don't understand the issue well, Coyne's column is a good starting point. ===== Imagine if Quebec had oil. (In fact, Quebec has natural gas. But that's a separate question.... ) Edited September 10, 2014 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Imagine if there were a referendum in Alberta today. Albertans would vote overwhelmingly in favour of remaining in Canada. Of course. You'd better count on that in Quebec. Oh and OP: the poll choices should not be yes or no, OCH AYE and NAE would be more appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Macadoo Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 Albertans would vote overwhelmingly in favour of remaining in Canada. Of course. You'd better count on that in Quebec. Oh and OP: the poll choices should not be yes or no, OCH AYE and NAE would be more appropriate. Yeah I seem to remember some guy running NCC was advocating for just that...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 NCC? National Capital Commission? Nature Conservancy of Canada? No Conflict Cooperation? Niagara Christian Community? I have No Clue Comrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Macadoo Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 I thought everyone in Alta only knows NCC as the National Citizen's Coalition. Wait do I have to expand Alta for you too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted September 10, 2014 Report Share Posted September 10, 2014 I thought everyone in Alta only knows NCC as the National Citizen's Coalition.They do. Wait do I have to expand Alta for you too?Only when one is being disingenuous. See above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 (edited) Scotland will face the same question as Quebec in the event of separation. If the UK is divisible is Scotland divisible? People in the Orkneys and Shetlands and the Western Isles are pressing for a referendum whether they would want to be independent, join Scotland or stay in the UK. Their heritage is more Norse than Scots. That could have a large bearing on just how resource rich Scotland really is. Edited September 11, 2014 by Wilber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjrr Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 In about 10 days, the citizens of Scotland will be making a decision on separating or not. I have been researching the web to try to find a site(s) that give an IMPARTIAL explanation of the issues. I have been unable to find one. The latest projection indicates a 50-50 chance to go either way. That indicates to me that there are valid reasons on both the YES and the NO side. If anyone has an impartial view or a web page which they would suggest then please share it with me. Not sure if these web pages are non biased but they do list many of the pros and cons of the move to independance. https://www.google.ca/#safe=active&q=pros+and+cons+of+scottish+independence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 I'm with On Guard on this one. I do think separation is popular as a concept in Scotland but in the wee hours of the morning, when push comes to shove, the Scotts will take their added autonomy rather than try start their own currency. I think the practical reality will sink in towards the very end when push comes to shove. This is an ancient phenomena simply being recycled in to a modern version of it. No Scottish person ever called themselves a citizen of the United Kingdom. They refer to themselves as Scottish. Doesn't mean they can't hold their noses and continue with the English. After all the English are down wind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted September 11, 2014 Report Share Posted September 11, 2014 I do believe that actor Sean Connery has given thousands of dollars if not, millions, to have Scotland for the yes vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 Will Connery lose his knighthood if Scotland becomes independent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) Scotland will face the same question as Quebec in the event of separation. If the UK is divisible is Scotland divisible?Typical "majority" threat to a "minority": 'Without me, you'll never survive!' ==== Slovakia and the Czech Republic thrive separately, but as part of a European Union. As Woody Allen says, whatever works. Edited September 12, 2014 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) Typical "majority" threat to a "minority": 'Without me, you'll never survive!'====Slovakia and the Czech Republic thrive separately, but as part of a European Union.As Woody Allen says, whatever works. The Orkneys, Shetlands and Western Isles are a majority in Scotland? I'm just saying a lot of Scotland's assumed resource wealth is offshore and much of that would no longer be in its territorial waters should those isles separate from Scotland. That's not a threat, it's geography. Edited September 12, 2014 by Wilber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solidarity Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) 97% of people in Scotland have registered for the referendum... pretty incredible. If you give people a real choice they will be engaged in the democratic process. Time to scrap FPTP! That number obviously includes a lot of first time voters, and people who simply gave up voting due to the similarity of the 3 London Tory parties... The main issue in the referendum seems to be disillusionment with the corruption, cronyism, banking/London/SE England focused parties, none of which represent key left wing values of Scottish society, such as social justice, equality, fairness. The warmongering and support of banking fraudsters by the traditional party of Scotland, Labour would appear to have been the last straw. When the best you can hope for is Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, with the worst being Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, and David Cameron it's a pretty bleak outlook. The current government has been taking an austerity based approach, while giving ridiculous discounts on the sale of public assets like the postal service, and subsidizing things such as private rail contracts, private security contracts, and have even been toying around with partial privatization of the NHS. The entire campaign of the 'better together' side has been run on the basis of fear and threats, basically claiming Scotland is too weak and incompetent to run its affairs, and the economy would collapse if they separate. Obviously there is uncertainty in the future, but striking such a condescending tone was a big mistake. Only with the polls closing to around 50-50 in the last few days did the Westminster establishment actually try and engage Scotland, and bribe them with extra powers such as increased devolution. I think the higher turnout is, the better for the Yes side, and the less representative pre-voting polls will prove to have been. I predict a Yes win, something like 55%-60% in favour. Originally the SNP and scots would probably have accepted devolution max, and more powers, but the refusal to consider these options until the polls were around 50-50 and the negative tone of the NO side, lead me to believe they will go for FREEEEEDOM. Edited September 12, 2014 by Solidarity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 97% of people in Scotland have registered for the referendum... pretty incredible. If you give people a real choice they will be engaged in the democratic process. The trick is to give people a simple yes or no question, not the confusing mealy-mouthed BS we're given to ponder here in Canada on the odd all-too-rare occasion we're asked to vote on something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 The British government cannot be said to have been of much use or help to Scotland over the past. I'm not really sure what all Scotland has gotten out of the union. Good government certainly isn't it. That being said, nothing about the Scottish government has impressed me - ever. And the oil will be running out far too quickly to use it as a basis for economic viability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted September 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) m Edited September 12, 2014 by Big Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted September 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) The trick is to give people a simple yes or no question, not the confusing mealy-mouthed BS we're given to ponder here in Canada on the odd all-too-rare occasion we're asked to vote on something. For those interested in a very informative account of the Canadian referendum I recommend - " The Morning After - The 1995 Quebec Referendum and the Day that Almost Was" - by Chantal Hebert A good reference to find out how NOT to run a referendum. Edited September 12, 2014 by Big Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 I thought everyone in Alta only knows NCC as the National Citizen's Coalition. Wait do I have to expand Alta for you too? No, but you'll have to link with a poll that shows Alberta wishes to separate from Canada. I'll wait. Oh, and the NCC is based in Toronto. That place is full of knobs spouting bullshit. Some things never change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 (edited) All things considered, if a country is to separate into two, then it's best if the vote is by a large margin. When Norway separated from Sweden in 1905, about 200 Norwegians of 400,000 voted against. IMHO, this is the standard that federalist English-Canadians should use when sovereignist Quebecers claim that Quebec is a potential Scandanavian society. Edited September 14, 2014 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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