Ferguson unrest

[Argus]

Apparently he didn't bother to have his tazer with him because it didn't fit comfortably on his belt. Of course as B_C points out they'd just as soon shoot 'em down there.

The tazer often doesn't work, especially on big angry guys pumped up on drugs and adrenalin.

[On Guard for Thee]

The tazer often doesn't work, especially on big angry guys pumped up on drugs and adrenalin.

It sure as hell won't work if you don't have it with you.

[bush_cheney2004]

Why? Even though I tend to believe what the cop did in this case was probably "legal" theres no question that these kind of situations could be handled without anyone dying. The cop could have turned and ran when this guy charged... the perp had already been shot a few times and wasnt going to get far. And police could be trained much better in the use of non-lethal tactics and provided with more options.

Ask the police unions. Ask the families of slain and disabled police officers. Ask the friends and relatives of assault victims. Ask the 'hoods who have to live with the threat of assaults and far worse every day. Police officers are not asked to "protect and serve" without regard to their own safety. Lawful escalation from non-lethal through deadly force has already been discussed here at length.

In famous MLW words, "Any perp who attacks a police officer "deserves it", "asked for it", and "had it coming".

[bush_cheney2004]

As for using a Taser, not required or recommended when the perp has already committed assault and comes back for more. Deadly force is authorized.

Hell, some police departments ("even in Canada") took the Tasers away unless a supervisor authorizes its use because so many people bitched about the number of deaths caused by using them.

Edited November 27, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[scribblet]

Thought I'd post this piece from a black strategist, worth a read

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/24/justice-was-served-in-ferguson-this-isn-t-jim-crow-america.html

The day of reckoning has arrived not just in Ferguson, Missouri, but also across America. For some, the grand jury proceedings to determine whether the shooting of a black teenager by a white police officer was justified was never about seeking justice. As widely anticipated in the media, the jury of nine whites and three blacks elected not to indict based on the evidence before them. Sadly, hundreds if not thousands of individuals descended upon this small St. Louis suburb to agitate for an outcome based on their ideology rather than the facts under consideration by the grand jury.

Even though the grand jury elected not to find Officer Darren Wilson responsible for the shooting death of teenager Michael Brown, sadly, I never believed that the gathering protesters gathered in Ferguson were seeking justice or a peaceful resolution to the case, which has roiled race relations in America to levels I haven’t seen in decades.

How else to explain those chanting “No Justice, No Peace” in the days leading up to the grand jury’s determination? The only justice sought by those folks involved a conviction against Wilson for killing the “gentle giant” teen. Evidence that favored Wilson’s account—that he tragically shot the teen in self-defense—was conveniently ignored, as doing so neatly fit into the narrative that whites are racist, white police officers assassinate blacks at their leisure, and America is as prejudiced toward people of color as it was in Selma, Alabama, in 1965. cont..

[Hal 9000]

If you'er going to run from the cops, I guess you better keep running because if you realize that what you're doing is stupid and turn around to go back, they will kill you and people like Argus will come on message boards and justify it.

Unless you're white.

Are you honestly suggesting that Brown saw the error in his ways and was coming back to turn himself in?...You should be embarrassed to post such a thing.

[Hal 9000]

The National Bar Association goes on record to say that the grand jury's decision not to indict Wilson was wrong.

http://us7.campaign-archive1.com/?u=b493e6c4d31beda32fdaf8e2d&id=73514e334b

Try applying your "institutional and systemic racism" here.

It was obvious this was written by a black woman before the end of the first paragraph.

[Smallc]

It's funny how all rumours have it that the Department of Justice sees things the same way.

[Smallc]

The reality is that racism doesn't exist around every corner like so many on the left seem to almost want it to. Racism exist, but our society doesn't usually see in colour anymore. This is an issue of violence.

[Shady]

Sure they got their stories together by grand jury time. Does that make it fact? Maybe if you're gullible enough, and it may be true. Either way it's not a huge pivot point.

No, they didn't get their stories together. The dispatch recordings are indisputable evidence. They record the time, day, officer, and substance of the dispatch. Officer Wilson received an announcement regarding the robbery before he encountered Brown and his friend. That is a fact. Sometimes facts can be stubborn things.

[Shady]

The reality is that racism doesn't exist around every corner like so many on the left seem to almost want it to. Racism exist, but our society doesn't usually see in colour anymore. This is an issue of violence.

Very true. It seems like it's more of the older generations that still see everything through a lense of race and colour. Younger generations just don't see things the same way.

[On Guard for Thee]

Very true. It seems like it's more of the older generations that still see everything through a lense of race and colour. Younger generations just don't see things the same way.

Actually you're right in this instance. That's how a lot of the "older" (not quite who all you include in that catch all) generation see's things. That's why post racial America is such a myth. To believe it doesn't exist is nothing more than naivety.

[Hal 9000]

The reason why I don't think racism is involved is because Ive known cops and seen cops at their worst and can say for a fact, that white or black or any other colour, that dude was going down. Cybercoma must have never met a cop outside of a traffic ticket if he/she believes a white guy would've gotten away with what Brown did.

[Bonam]

The reality is that racism doesn't exist around every corner like so many on the left seem to almost want it to. Racism exist, but our society doesn't usually see in colour anymore. This is an issue of violence.

Indeed. Many seem to want to describe almost every interaction between two individuals in America as being about race, racism, gender discrimination, power imbalance, or some else along those lines. The reality is that these things do exist, and are a factor sometimes, but far far from universally. One has to use their brain to realize when they are applicable, and when not. Unfortunately, for those deeply invested in these topics, emotion overwhelms reason very quickly when there is even the remotest possibility that it can be categorized as one of these things (i.e. any interaction between a white male and anyone who is not a white male).

Edited November 27, 2014 by Bonam

[On Guard for Thee]

The reason why I don't think racism is involved is because Ive known cops and seen cops at their worst and can say for a fact, that white or black or any other colour, that dude was going down. Cybercoma must have never met a cop outside of a traffic ticket if he/she believes a white guy would've gotten away with what Brown did.

Well your reason is pretty subjective and quite flimsy and you obviously don't know the cops I know.

[sharkman]

Well your reason is pretty subjective and quite flimsy and you obviously don't know the cops I know.

Well your reason is pretty subjective and flimsy but so what? Just because you know some bad cops that means that Wilson is a bad cop? Hopefully you've got more than that.

Edited November 27, 2014 by sharkman

[cybercoma]

Sorry, but I have been told to get out of the road by a cop, way back when. I also remember being yelled at by a cop when I tried to drive my bike onto the road well ahead of the daily guard march they were blocking the road for. Cops can be arrogant bastards regardless of your race.

Who walks down the middle of the road anyway? Anyone I know walks on the side of the road.

You've got personal anecdotes that prove your position in every discussion, don't you? Still under the mistaken assumption that your experiences are the same as everyone else's, eh?

[cybercoma]

Race does not factor into every situation.

This is unequivocally wrong. Race factors into every situation.

[On Guard for Thee]

No, once again you're not getting the drift of what's going on. Apparently Hal knows bad cops who like to shoot people. I know good cops that know how to exercise restraint.

[cybercoma]

Why? Even though I tend to believe what the cop did in this case was probably "legal" theres no question that these kind of situations could be handled without anyone dying. The cop could have turned and ran when this guy charged... the perp had already been shot a few times and wasnt going to get far. And police could be trained much better in the use of non-lethal tactics and provided with more options.

Or the cop could have handled the entire situation differently instead of escalating the aggression when someone tells him to f- off and questions his authority.

[cybercoma]

When all is said and done we don't pay police to run away from violent people. We pay them to arrest violent people. There are limits to what non-lethal tactic you can use with a 300lb man when you're alone. Basically, you tell him to stop and get on the ground, and if he keeps coming at you, well....

You ever get stopped and told to get on the ground with a gun pointed at you for walking down the street?

[cybercoma]

our society doesn't usually see in colour anymore

No. People who conveniently can ignore that racism exists because they don't experience it can pretend that our society doesn't see colour. These are the same assholes that deny racism exists in spite of people of colour saying they experience racism every single day.

"No, you don't. Society doesn't see colour anymore. Stop being an uppity you know what."

[cybercoma]

our society doesn't usually see in colour anymore

No. People who conveniently can ignore that racism exists because they don't experience it can pretend that our society doesn't see colour. These are the same assholes that deny racism exists in spite of people of colour saying they experience racism every single day.

"No, you don't. Society doesn't see colour anymore. Stop being an uppity you know what."

[cybercoma]

The reason why I don't think racism is involved is because Ive known cops and seen cops at their worst and can say for a fact, that white or black or any other colour, that dude was going down. Cybercoma must have never met a cop outside of a traffic ticket if he/she believes a white guy would've gotten away with what Brown did.

A white guy wouldn't have been treated with such hostility from the cop in the first place. A white guy probably wouldn't have even been told to get out of the street.

[cybercoma]

A bunch of white guys said racism's over everybody. Time to stop talking about.

Unbelievable. Talk about needing to check your damn privilege.