Ferguson unrest

[Black Dog]

Here's what we know:

On Saturday, Aug. 9, Michael Brown, an 18-year-old African American was shot to death in Ferguson, Mo., a suburb of St. Louis, as Brown and a friend walked down a street. He was unarmed. Police say Brown physically assaulted the officer, and reached for the officer's gun during the struggle. One shot was fired in the car followed by other gunshots outside of the car. Eyewitnesses, including Brown's friend and several onlookers, say the cop initiated the confrontation and ensuing physical struggle and shot Brown as he attempted to flee, including firing several rounds while Brown was on the ground in surrender posture. His body was left at the scene for several hours.

As word got out, protesters gathered at the scene and at the police HQ. More cops were called in. Sunday night, there was small scale rioting and looting of local businesses. Since then, the protests have been non-violent, despite an escalating police presence and actions including the use of rubber bullets and tear gas, the creation of a no-fly zone over the town to prevent news helicopters from monitoring the scene, the arrest and detention of news reporters and the confiscation of cameras. Most jarring have been the images of heavily armed and armored police aiming weapons at protesters from behind Army-surplus armored vehicles, giving rise to growing concerns about the militarization of police.

Those are the basic facts. Comments?

[TimG]

I thought this was an interesting insight:

http://www.popehat.com/2014/08/14/dont-give-special-rights-to-anybody-oh-except-cops-thats-cool/

If you are arrested for shooting someone, the police will use everything in their power — lies, false friendship, fear, coercion — to get you to make a statement immediately. That's because they know that the statement is likely to be useful to the prosecution: either it will incriminate you, or it will lock you into one version of events before you've had an opportunity to speak with an adviser or see the evidence against you. You won't have time to make up a story or conform it to the evidence or get your head straight.

But what if a police officer shoots someone? Oh, that's different. Then police unions and officials push for delays and opportunities to review evidence before any interview of the officer. Last December, after a video showed that a cop lied about his shooting of a suspect, the Dallas Police issued a new policy requiring a 72-hour delay after a shooting before an officer can be interviewed, and an opportunity for the officer to review the videos or witness statements about the incident. Has Dallas changed its policy to offer such courtesies to citizens arrested for crimes? Don't be ridiculous. If you or I shoot someone, the police will not delay our interrogation until it is personally convenient.

Edited August 14, 2014 by TimG

[Black Dog]

I thought this was an interesting insight:

http://www.popehat.com/2014/08/14/dont-give-special-rights-to-anybody-oh-except-cops-thats-cool/

Although people can be overly quick to judge the police doing a difficult job I am starting to wonder whether the training for cops has gotten to the point that unavoidable shootings are rare events and when someone ends up dead it is likely negligence on the part of the cop.

IOW: in an ideal world we want cops to be trained to avoid killing people as much as possible. if the training is working as expected we would should find that death by cop today is more likely to be the result of negligence on the part of the cop than it was in the past.

Problem is, cops today are being trained and outfitted like paramilitaries instead of peace officers, which is bound to impact their mindsets, leading them to take more confrontational stances in their interactions with civilians.

[Shady]

Problem is, is that we don't have the other side of the story, and we don't yet know what really happened. We just have a bunch of vigilantes demanding to know the identity of the officer in question. For God knows what reasons, probably none of them very good and lawful.

[Black Dog]

Problem is, is that we don't have the other side of the story, and we don't yet know what really happened. We just have a bunch of vigilantes demanding to know the identity of the officer in question. For God knows what reasons, probably none of them very good and lawful.

Cops are too happy to release the names of other suspects in criminal investigations (they gave out the names, ages, and specific charges of at least nine suspects arrested in connection with Sunday's unrest). Why is this guy special? Even if you consider that he hasn't been arrested, he's a public employee and I think the public has a right to know which members of their police force are murdering people.

As for the not really knowing what happened, I'm sure we'll get a complete and thorough investigation of this, just like we always do when cops are involved with investigating cops *makes jerk-off motion*

Edited August 14, 2014 by Black Dog

[Derek 2.0]

A solution to any further looting, posted on the local Craigslist.

[TimG]

Problem is, cops today are being trained and outfitted like paramilitaries instead of peace officers, which is bound to impact their mindsets, leading them to take more confrontational stances in their interactions with civilians.

This is not the direction that we want to go in.

[Black Dog]

This is not the direction that we want to go in.

Too late.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Black Dog

[TimG]

Too late.

In Canada?

[Black Dog]

In Canada?

This is the U.S. politics section.

[Derek 2.0]

Too late.

What makes those police officers paramilitary? Carbines, ballistic vests and armoured trucks? How does that signal policing becoming more paramilitary? How is that different then prohibition era police armed with Tommy guns, conducting raids with armoured trucks?

[Black Dog]

What makes those police officers paramilitary? Carbines, ballistic vests and armoured trucks? How does that signal policing becoming more paramilitary? How is that different then prohibition era police armed with Tommy guns, conducting raids with armoured trucks?

Yeah, I police wearing camo, using actual army surplus battle rifles, body armor and MRAPS to face unarmed nonviolent protesters is totes the same thing as Eliot Ness and his boys smashing into a speakeasy.

[Derek 2.0]

Yeah, I police wearing camo, using actual army surplus battle rifles, body armor and MRAPS to face unarmed nonviolent protesters is totes the same thing as Eliot Ness and his boys smashing into a speakeasy.

Are the reports of firebombs and rocks thrown at police untrue? And no, I don’t see a relative difference between police back then, armed with automatic carbines and armoured trucks, and police today, armed with select fire carbines and armoured trucks…………

[On Guard for Thee]

What makes those police officers paramilitary? Carbines, ballistic vests and armoured trucks? How does that signal policing becoming more paramilitary? How is that different then prohibition era police armed with Tommy guns, conducting raids with armoured trucks?

Of course it makes them paramilitary. What the hell else would it make them? Whatever happenned to "to serve and protect" ?

[Bonam]

Whatever happenned to "to serve and protect" ?

New motto.

"To search and destroy"

[Derek 2.0]

Of course it makes them paramilitary. What the hell else would it make them? Whatever happenned to "to serve and protect" ?

[bush_cheney2004]

Civil unrest...say it ain't so. Reminds me of the good old days, like this 1943 riot in Detroit, where the police were powerless:

[Derek 2.0]

Civil unrest...say it ain't so. Reminds me of the good old days, like this 1943 riot in Detroit, where the police were powerless:

Indeed........and if the police withdrew and allowed the community to be continually looted and burnt to the ground, the police would be called racist………..I imagine this won’t stop, with news that the Black Panthers and other professional protest groups are inbound, coupled with the State police taking control………any bets on if/when the Guard will be called in?

[bush_cheney2004]

…any bets on if/when the Guard will be called in?

The mayor is already pressuring the governor, but it probably pivots on the grand jury decision to charge the police officer. Mobilizing in process. But it ain't much of a riot if people have time to tweet and take selfies !

[Derek 2.0]

The mayor is already pressuring the governor, but it probably pivots on the grand jury decision to charge the police officer. Mobilizing in process. But it ain't much of a riot if people have time to tweet and take selfies !

Makes sense to get the State Police and Guard involved.......the locals police are probably in need of relief......Of course the tin-foil constituency will love actual Guardsmen in the streets…….With that said, leaving them alone would probably allow the whole thing to die of natural causes once the looted stores ran out of inventory.

[On Guard for Thee]

Is this pic supposed to mean something?

[Derek 2.0]

Is this pic supposed to mean something?

Sure, the police serving and protecting with military carbines..........

[On Guard for Thee]

Sure, the police serving and protecting with military carbines..........

So serving and protecting means killing unarmed teenagers?

[Derek 2.0]

So serving and protecting means killing unarmed teenagers?

That clearly depends.......did said teen attack a police officer and attempt to grab his service pistol?

[On Guard for Thee]

That clearly depends.......did said teen attack a police officer and attempt to grab his service pistol?

Not according to numerous eyewitnesses. And you only have to look at the scene pictures widely shown on TV to understand he was quite a ways from the police vehicle when he was shot, and he was unarmed.