Ontario Budget 2014 -- Election

[TimG]

To be fair, the Teacher Pension plan had a MASSIVE surplus in the 90's and the law dictated that the government could swoop in and take it. And they did... This was before it became a privately managed pension.

That is just one more reason why employers should not be on the hook for shortfalls because being on the hook for short falls means they are entitled to the surpluses. The only people who should have any input into what to do with surpluses should be the beneficiaries. Edited May 17, 2014 by TimG

[Wayward Son]

Take my word for it since you have admitted you don't understand economics.

I said that I am no expert in it, and unlike you who appear to be a poster child for the Dunning-Kruger effect, I recognize that the actual relevant experts have a diverse set of opinions. You can be certain of one thing though - I would never take your word for anything, as you have shown yourself to be a complete slave to your narrow ideology.

[shocktech88]

Anyone who believes that CPP and the other like contributions are enough to retire on, is grossly delusional. $12,500 a year is peanuts, PEANUTS! and yet that's what you get if you do not or cannot obtain access to large amounts of money, or the means to save money for your retirement.

Wynne's plan isn't a bad idea, research shows that most people (from the far right to the far left) do not have the money, will, knowledge or desire to save for thier retirement properly. The extra pension will help immensley. Sure its going to cost to get it off the ground, but the benefits to anyone under the age of 35 now, will be a huge help by the time they retire, about 15-17K on top of normal CPP at 12K. People have proven that they either cannot afford to save, or (growing trend) they burn it on items they cannot afford. The other day on 1010 Toronto, people making 150,000K per person were calling in crying poor and that they can't seem to save a penny! Really? How big is your mortage? How many mercedes are in your driveway? How much was your premium T.V and sound system in your basement? How many vacations per calender year are you going on? Then the single mom making 45k calls in and says she's grateful for what she has and makes it work. My point? People are stupid and misguided when it comes to retirement savings... Wynne's plan will help people save.

I don't see Hudak with any such plan, care or responsibility on retirement savings, just nothing but slash and burn.

Edited May 17, 2014 by shocktech88

[Smallc]

You'll actually get more money than that. The GIS is used to create a minimum. In my area at least, it's around the $1330 per month mark.

[Argus]

There is CPP/OAS/gis and for retirement teachers would have 13% more of their income to spend on rrsps like the rest of the private sector. They'd also be taxed less since we wouldn't need to tax the hell out if everyone to pay for education.

All large employers should be encouraged to offer pensions. Generally, they take the place of higher wages anyway. Most people are incapable of managing their own investments.

If the private sector won't give arts grads more than 30k-40k and 10 vacation days for an entry level job they shouldn't expect the taxpayer to do it. More vacation days would be earned as the teacher gained experience and we weeded out the bad teachers.

Do you the average vacation offered up in most European countries, union or not, is 5-6 weeks?

I think the Europeans are a lot more humane than us, and that they have the right priority of life vs work.

And they can work another job during the summer like anyone else with a seasonal job.

Perhaps, but that's not going to be of any help to the school boards. Besides, most of those seasonal workers don't bother working in the off season. They go on pogey.

[CPCFTW]

All large employers should be encouraged to offer pensions. Generally, they take the place of higher wages anyway. Most people are incapable of managing their own investments.

Yes I have nothing against encouraging employers to offer a pension plan... Maybe through tax credits? I have issue with forcing employers to offer a pension plan and forcing workers to participate.

Do you the average vacation offered up in most European countries, union or not, is 5-6 weeks?

I think the Europeans are a lot more humane than us, and that they have the right priority of life vs work.

That's nice but we're in Canada. The public sector shouldn't be treated like Europeans while everyone else slaves away like north Americans to provide them with that luxury.

Perhaps, but that's not going to be of any help to the school boards. Besides, most of those seasonal workers don't bother working in the off season. They go on pogey.

Harper's cracking down on seasonal ei applicants.

[cindi]

Of course she went to Walkerton.

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario_election/2014/05/15/wynne_in_walkerton_warns_hudaks_proposed_job_cuts_could_risk_public_safety.html

I haven’t seen any mention of the Liberals cutting the Walkerton Clean Water Centre funding by $1 million a year in I think 2011, guess she forgot to mention it. How hypocritical is that.

I do believe Hudak made a mistake pegging the cuts so high but what hasn’t been mentioned is that the Liberals increased civil service jobs by 300,000.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/121207/t121207a003-eng.htm

In March 2014, Ontario's Unemployment Rate was 7.4% with 547 400 Ontarians unemployed.

If Hudak truly creates a MILLION jobs, we'll have 452 600 to spare. Sorry, 352 000 to spare after laying off 100 000 public sector workers.

352 000! That's the entire population of London, ON.

Is this that "new math" that I've been hearing about?

[Wayward Son]

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/121207/t121207a003-eng.htm

In March 2014, Ontario's Unemployment Rate was 7.4% with 547 400 Ontarians unemployed.

If Hudak truly creates a MILLION jobs, we'll have 452 600 to spare. Sorry, 352 000 to spare after laying off 100 000 public sector workers.

352 000! That's the entire population of London, ON.

Is this that "new math" that I've been hearing about?

Well it is over 8 years, so you have to figure in population growth, and he may be figuring in a decrease in the number of people who leave the province to find work, plus perhaps people who are not counted as unemployed because they have given up on finding work. There would also be a number of people who are employed, but only part-time and some of them would likely want a second job.

That is not a defense of Hudak's numbers though, which I think are deeply flawed. As I have pointed out more then half of his million jobs are jobs that are predicted to occur as if the status quo remained the same (523,000 jobs based on the average number of the jobs created over the past decade and multiplying that yearly average over eight years). But 300,000 of those jobs over the last eight years were public sector jobs (at least according to Hudak), so they must be subtracted from that total (especially as Hudak includes the changes in public jobs elsewhere in his job plan: a loss of 100,000 in the first 4 years, and a gain for 40,000ish). So he counts public sector job growth twice...and both times at completely different numbers. It appears his numbers have a problem with basic elementary school math, and would fail the standardized testing, which may be why he wants to lay off so many teachers.

Edited May 18, 2014 by Wayward Son

[CPCFTW]

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/121207/t121207a003-eng.htm

In March 2014, Ontario's Unemployment Rate was 7.4% with 547 400 Ontarians unemployed.

If Hudak truly creates a MILLION jobs, we'll have 452 600 to spare. Sorry, 352 000 to spare after laying off 100 000 public sector workers.

352 000! That's the entire population of London, ON.

Is this that "new math" that I've been hearing about?

Ontario is projected to grow by over 1M in 8 years. With Ontario's 61% employment rate that's over 600k jobs.

http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/economy/demographics/projections/table1.html

Don't be dense.

Edit: FYI I posted this twice in comments section of The Star but it was deleted both times. So unbiased!

Edited May 18, 2014 by CPCFTW

[CPCFTW]

Here's a tough one for the lefty math majors in here.

Q: Ontario currently has a population of 11,313,900 and has an employment rate of 61.2%, equalling approximately 6,920,000 employed Ontarians.

In 8 years Ontario will have a population of approximately 12,313,900. What employment rate would adding 1mil jobs yield?

A: (6,920,000 + 1,000,000) / 12,313,900 = 64%

64% is 5% lower than the AB employment rate, 3% lower than the SK employment rate, and equivalent to the MB employment rate.

Truly a difficult math question!

Edited May 18, 2014 by CPCFTW

[BobbyS]

Here's a tough one for the lefty math majors in here.

Q: Ontario currently has a population of 11,313,900 and has an employment rate of 61.2%, equalling approximately 6,920,000 employed Ontarians.

In 8 years Ontario will have a population of approximately 12,313,900. What employment rate would adding 1mil jobs yield?

A: (6,920,000 + 1,000,000) / 12,313,900 = 64%

64% is 5% lower than the AB employment rate, 3% lower than the SK employment rate, and equivalent to the MB employment rate.

Truly a difficult math question!

I guess Teaparty Tim is banking on retirees having to work part time jobs to say afloat

[Michael Hardner]

Keep the debate on the issues, people.

[Boges]

Not much worth mentioning happened this weekend.

Attack ad ban ends today though.

[Topaz]

On the weekend I was talking to someone who had talked to a Wind rep. and he said that the Feds okayed the Wind Farms and the guy said he saw Harper's signature on them. I said I thought it was the provinces and he said no it was feds who started many are from the US. So with Hudak saying he going to cut money to the Wind Farms, it would be a little confusing for the Conservative on both levels. Personally, I need the reduction on my bill!!!!

[BobbyS]

On the weekend I was talking to someone who had talked to a Wind rep. and he said that the Feds okayed the Wind Farms and the guy said he saw Harper's signature on them. I said I thought it was the provinces and he said no it was feds who started many are from the US. So with Hudak saying he going to cut money to the Wind Farms, it would be a little confusing for the Conservative on both levels. Personally, I need the reduction on my bill!!!!

Right now you get a 10% rebate on Hydro. Tim Hudak will remove that.

[Boges]

Right now you get a 10% rebate on Hydro. Tim Hudak will remove that.

That rebate expires in a bit over a year anyway.

The Liberals borrowed money to give a brake on skyrocketing hydro bills. IMHO that's madness.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

I've been predicting PC minority since the start of this election because I can't believe that people would stick with the Liberals after their troubles...

It looks like the polls are still showing that.

I don't feel like any of the parties are really making an impact either way.

[Topaz]

I heard on the news the debates are starting next week and sadly Hudak can't come, he didn't have enough time to change plans to go up to Northern Ontario. Does he think he can skip because the polls are in his favour or he rather watch the other two and take notes for the next one, not a good decision, in my view.

[Michael Hardner]

http://www.680news.com/2014/05/22/ontario-liberals-out-front-in-2-new-polls-ahead-of-election/

According to a 'Forum' poll, Wynne is leading but it has been pointed out that these polls seem skewed.

Also - did anybody catch that the NDP "bought" the front page of the Sun yesterday ? That seems like a sea change in the way newspapers sell themselves to the highest bidder. Next, the editorial board will be advertising their support going to the highest bidder.

[Boges]

The major debate is on June 3rd.

Another Forum poll came out that has Wynne widened her lead. Abacus released a poll saying they're neck and neck.

Every poll released since the start of the campaign has said something completely different. I don't know how a trend can even be recognized.

Edited May 22, 2014 by Boges

[Boges]

http://www.680news.com/2014/05/22/ontario-liberals-out-front-in-2-new-polls-ahead-of-election/

According to a 'Forum' poll, Wynne is leading but it has been pointed out that these polls seem skewed.

Also - did anybody catch that the NDP "bought" the front page of the Sun yesterday ? That seems like a sea change in the way newspapers sell themselves to the highest bidder. Next, the editorial board will be advertising their support going to the highest bidder.

The NDP bought a full wrap of the Sun. Seems like a waste of money on their part. Olivia Chow did wright a column in the Sun when she announced she was running for mayor a few months back.

Perhaps it's seen as a working class paper as well as a conservative paper.

[cybercoma]

The major debate is on June 3rd.

Another Forum poll came out that has Wynne widened her lead. Abacus released a poll saying they're neck and neck.

Every poll released since the start of the campaign has said something completely different. I don't know how a trend can even be recognized.

You need to look at the survey methodologies. Some use possible voters, others use likely voters. Some use internet surveys, others use telephones. Some include cellphone lines, others don't. Some sample voters across the province, others don't cast a wide enough net. Some include numbers for undecided voters, others drop them. There are a lot of variables to consider in their survey designs.

[Boges]

I know the Abacus poll said that the PCs hold a lead in "likely voters"

[cybercoma]

If you go to the pollsters' websites, they sometimes have a section on their methodologies. I haven't taken the time to research them, but that's why I say pay attention to 308. Eric considers that, amongst other things, when determining the relative weights of the polls.

Edited May 22, 2014 by cybercoma