This week in Islam

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, eyeball said:

Oh I'm quite certain many of them were Islamic.

And not so much as a teeny tine scratch.

How do you explain it? You often do, why not now?  Is is because you're full of shit or something?

 

Islam is the doctrine. Muslims practice it...sometimes poorly like Christians. The Quran, however, says what it says and claims to be the word of Allah. Not a suggestion from a human author. It says to fight the Unbeliever until all religion is for Allah. Islam also has provisions for when the faith is under threat or a minority among many Unbelievers. That is: lay low and follow the Kafir's laws. 

[Goddess]

7 minutes ago, eyeball said:

And yet here I stand...unscathed...how do you explain that?  I've encountered dozens and dozens of Muslims, a couple could have slit my throat while I was sleeping.  Not a scratch.

Why DOP?  

And I was assaulted by a Muslim man at my work because I told him No about something - he got 6 months for throwing an object at my head, which I deflected with my hand and needed stitches.  And I had my hand slapped and was shoved by a Muslim man for handing some food tickets to his wife, instead of to his 5 year old son.

What's your point?

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, Goddess said:

And I was assaulted by a Muslim man at my work because I told him No about something - he got 6 months for throwing an object at my head, which I deflected with my hand and needed stitches.  And I had my hand slapped and was shoved by a Muslim man for handing some food tickets to his wife, instead of to his 5 year old son.

What's your point?

That I should be dead by now according to our resident expert on Islam.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, eyeball said:

That I should be dead by now according to our resident expert on Islam.

 

I said no such thing.

[Goddess]

Just now, eyeball said:

That I should be dead by now according to our resident expert on Islam.

Ah, I see.  You've picked up one of Dialamah's mudballs.  She'll be so happy.

[eyeball]

Just now, DogOnPorch said:

 

I said no such thing.

Your beloved Quran did.

[eyeball]

Just now, Goddess said:

Ah, I see.  You've picked up one of Dialamah's mudballs.  She'll be so happy.

And how the hell do you explain it?

[DogOnPorch]

 

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

Your beloved Quran did.

Dialamah's Quran, actually.

 

You, however, wanted me dead at the hand of the Mujaheddin if I recall...so you are aware of Islam's lethal nature.

[Goddess]

4 minutes ago, eyeball said:

And how the hell do you explain it?

Not sure if I'm getting your drift.....but I'll try:

Dog's position is that violence is inherent in Islam - through its holy book and through its history and through the way the majority  of the world's Muslims behave.  In no way has he ever said that ALL Muslims are violent.  His stand is that there is more violence in Islam than normal because of the verses explicit in the book, the history of the religion and its effects on its adherents in general.

Dia diagrees - to her, the book is just being wrongly interpreted and only by a tiny, almost miniscule, "You're an Islamophobe if you have any concern about Islamic terrorism" portion of Muslims. To her the religion is a beautiful record of peace and love and anyone who doesn't believe that is morally bankrupt, in her opinion.

So in order to disagree with Dog, she must re-word everything he says by following him around the board and making sure that everyone sees HER interpretation of what he's posted, in the hopes that others will eventually only see HER interpretation and not what he's actually said.  Mudballs.  If you throw enough of them, eventually something sticks.

She will be so happy that you have accepted her interpretation of what Dog posts, picked up that mudball she created and thrown it at the target she has chosen for you.

[eyeball]

14 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Dialamah's Quran, actually.

But I thought you said there was only one Quran? Now you're saying there are other versions, interpretations or ways of seeing the Quran?

 

Quote

 

You, however, wanted me dead at the hand of the Mujaheddin if I recall...so you are aware of Islam's lethal nature.

 

Oh quit blowing things out of proportion, I simply said I wouldn't miss you if you were. 

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, eyeball said:

But I thought you said there was only one Quran? Now you're saying there are other versions, interpretations or ways of seeing the Quran?

 

Oh quit blowing things out of proportion, I simply said I wouldn't miss you if you were. 

 

She's the Muslim or Muslim apologist. Her Quran as she supports what's inside.

There's only ONE Quran no matter the sect.

[DogOnPorch]

You wanted me dead and dialamah liked it.

[eyeball]

4 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Not sure if I'm getting your drift.....but I'll try:

Dog's position is that violence is inherent in Islam - through its holy book and through its history and through the way the majority  of the world's Muslims behave.  In no way has he ever said that ALL Muslims are violent.

Well, the drift you people create has certainly made it clear that the Quran holds sway over the minds of hundreds of millions if not up to a billion adherents worldwide.  It is inconceivable to me that I still stand unscathed after having been in close enough proximity to dozens upon dozens of Muslims that anyone of them could have put me to the sword.

There is something preventing them from behaving like the savage killers they're all too often depicted as being everywhere and in great enough numbers that all of us should have incidents of violence being inflicted on us to report. 

I don't have a scratch on me.

[eyeball]

4 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

You wanted me dead and dialamah liked it.

If I'd actually said that I would have been questioned by the RCMP by now don't you think? 

[DogOnPorch]

You wanted me dead and dialamah liked it.

[Goddess]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

There is something preventing them from behaving like the savage killers they're all too often depicted as being everywhere  

 

I like to think that humanity overcomes religious directives at some point for most people.  Breaking point would be different for different people - I left my church when they directed me to have nothing to do with my children.

Quote

I don't have a scratch on me.

I have a scar from my encounter.  

[Goddess]

The latest research I've found shows that the more punitive and vengeful a religion is, the more likelihood of it causing mental illness:

https://campuspress.yale.edu/perspective/religion-and-mental-health-the-connection-between-faith-and-delusion/
 

Quote

 

Studies have shown there is a complex connection between religion and mental issues. A 2014 study found that people who believe in a vengeful or punitive god are more likely to suffer from mental issues such as social anxiety, paranoia, obsessional thinking, and compulsions.  The American Psychiatric Association issued a mental health guide for faith leaders to help those preaching the word differentiate between devout belief and dangerous delusion or fundamentalism. 

It’s also possible that the beliefs and teachings advocated by a religion for example forgiveness or compassion, can become integrated into the way our brain works, this is because the more that certain neural connections in the brain are used, the stronger they can become. Of course, obviously then the flip-side is true too, and a doctrine that advocates negative beliefs, such as hatred or ostracization of non-believers, or even belief that certain health issues are a ‘punishment’ from a higher power, detrimental effects to an individual’s mental health can occur.

Likewise, a study from March this year showed that those who held devout religious beliefs were less afraid of death than those with uncertain ones, interestingly devout atheists also held little anxiety about death and the after-life.

 

 

[DogOnPorch]

http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1366019651982/

An apparent Muslim man goes on a stabbing spree in Australia. Truck also contains gas cylinders that he set on fire in hopes of a big explosion.

Cops shoot him dead after several are stabbed.

Only two dead...so you can ignore this small apparent Jihad attack and hope it was just a one-off.

 

[dialamah]

23 hours ago, Goddess said:

You're not the boss of me and you're not this forum's police, who gets to tell others when and what they post.  It's a discussion forum, everyone is allowed to post their thoughts and I am not obligated to you to attack the posters you want me to, nor am I obligated to respond to every post I don't completely agree with.  I am not going to re-write people's posts just to find something nit-picky to argue about like you do.

Fair enough.  Just don't claim to speak for moderate Muslims while supporting extremist statements made by the likes of DoP.

[DogOnPorch]

4 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Fair enough.  Just don't claim to speak for moderate Muslims while supporting extremist statements made by the likes of DoP.

 

The extremist statements are from your Quran.

[dialamah]

On 11/7/2018 at 10:56 AM, Goddess said:

Is that what it SAYS or is that another interpretation of what it says?  Doggo at least provides the actual verses. 

Didn't you claim at some point that you'd studied about Islam and were some kind of minor expert, compared to me - an ignorant and naive person, influenced by my sister and having no real understanding of Islam?  I am surprised you are unaware of these verses.

"People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews as well as Muslims.
 

Of the people of Moses there is a section who guide and do justice in the light of truth. (Quran 7:159)

And We caused Jesus, the son of Mary, to follow in the footsteps of those (earlier prophets), confirming the truth of whatever there still remained of the Torah; and We sent him the Gospel, wherein there was guidance and light, confirming the truth of whatever there still remained of the Torah, and as a guidance and admonition unto the God-conscious. (Quran 5:46)

Verily, those who have attained to faith [in this divine writ], as well as those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Christians, and the Sabians - all who believe in God and the Last Day and do righteous deeds-shall have their reward with their Sustainer; and no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve. (Quran 2:62)

Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous. (Quran 3:113-114)

And there are, certainly, among the People of the Book, those who believe in God, in the revelation to you, and in the revelation to them, bowing in humility to God. They will not sell the Signs of God for a miserable gain! For them is a reward with their Lord, and God is swift in account. (Quran 3:199)

God does not forbid you from being good to those who have not fought you in the religion or driven you from your homes, or from being just towards them. God loves those who are just.” (Surat al-Mumtahana, 8)

Extremists count on people essentially ignorant of what the Koran says about Jihad, Jews and unbelievers to recruit their "soldiers".  That is why most terrorists in Western countries are either recent converts or second and third generation home grown actors.  Every time someone makes the claim that the Koran requires the killing of others, while ignoring or dismissing every instruction against killing, they simply support this interpretation that supports radicalization.   

No "apologists" deny the verses in the Koran that support violent extremism (or patriarchy); "apologists" simply choose to spread the message that Islam gives a different and more peaceful choice, just as all religions do. I think that's a heck of a lot better message, both for Muslims and non-Muslims.  Especially since nobody is unaware of the violence engaged in by certain Muslims and Islamic governments.

Edited November 9, 2018 by dialamah

[DogOnPorch]

12 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Didn't you claim at some point that you'd studied about Islam and were some kind of minor expert, compared to me - an ignorant and naive person, influenced by my sister and having no real understanding of Islam?  I am surprised you are unaware of these verses.

"People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews as well as Muslims.
 

Of the people of Moses there is a section who guide and do justice in the light of truth. (Quran 7:159)

And We caused Jesus, the son of Mary, to follow in the footsteps of those (earlier prophets), confirming the truth of whatever there still remained of the Torah; and We sent him the Gospel, wherein there was guidance and light, confirming the truth of whatever there still remained of the Torah, and as a guidance and admonition unto the God-conscious. (Quran 5:46)

Verily, those who have attained to faith [in this divine writ], as well as those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Christians, and the Sabians - all who believe in God and the Last Day and do righteous deeds-shall have their reward with their Sustainer; and no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve. (Quran 2:62)

Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous. (Quran 3:113-114)

And there are, certainly, among the People of the Book, those who believe in God, in the revelation to you, and in the revelation to them, bowing in humility to God. They will not sell the Signs of God for a miserable gain! For them is a reward with their Lord, and God is swift in account. (Quran 3:199)

God does not forbid you from being good to those who have not fought you in the religion or driven you from your homes, or from being just towards them. God loves those who are just.” (Surat al-Mumtahana, 8)

Extremists count on people essentially ignorant of what the Koran says about Jihad, Jews and unbelievers to recruit their "soldiers".  That is why most terrorists in Western countries are either recent converts or second and third generation home grown actors.  Every time someone makes the claim that the Koran requires the killing of others, while ignoring or dismissing every instruction against killing, they simply support this interpretation that supports radicalization.   

No "apologists" deny the verses in the Koran that support violent extremism (or patriarchy); "apologists" simply choose to spread the message that Islam gives a different and more peaceful choice, just as all religions do. I think that's a heck of a lot better message, both for Muslims and non-Muslims.  Especially since nobody is unaware of the violence engaged in by certain Muslims and Islamic governments.

 

Apologists like yourself are hopeful that folks like myself and Goddess are unaware of what Naskh means in context to reading and presenting verses of the Quran.

Aren't you....

[DogOnPorch]

Let's review its meaning...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naskh_(tafsir)

 

[DogOnPorch]

Now here's a question for dialamah: what is the Verse of the Sword and how is it significant?

[Goddess]

28 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Didn't you claim at some point that you'd studied about Islam and were some kind of minor expert, compared to me - an ignorant and naive person, influenced by my sister and having no real understanding of Islam?  I am surprised you are unaware of these verses.

"People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews as well as Muslims.
 

Of the people of Moses there is a section who guide and do justice in the light of truth. (Quran 7:159)

And We caused Jesus, the son of Mary, to follow in the footsteps of those (earlier prophets), confirming the truth of whatever there still remained of the Torah; and We sent him the Gospel, wherein there was guidance and light, confirming the truth of whatever there still remained of the Torah, and as a guidance and admonition unto the God-conscious. (Quran 5:46)

Verily, those who have attained to faith [in this divine writ], as well as those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Christians, and the Sabians - all who believe in God and the Last Day and do righteous deeds-shall have their reward with their Sustainer; and no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve. (Quran 2:62)

Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous. (Quran 3:113-114)

And there are, certainly, among the People of the Book, those who believe in God, in the revelation to you, and in the revelation to them, bowing in humility to God. They will not sell the Signs of God for a miserable gain! For them is a reward with their Lord, and God is swift in account. (Quran 3:199)

God does not forbid you from being good to those who have not fought you in the religion or driven you from your homes, or from being just towards them. God loves those who are just.” (Surat al-Mumtahana, 8)

Extremists count on people essentially ignorant of what the Koran says about Jihad, Jews and unbelievers to recruit their "soldiers".  That is why most terrorists in Western countries are either recent converts or second and third generation home grown actors.  Every time someone makes the claim that the Koran requires the killing of others, while ignoring or dismissing every instruction against killing, they simply support this interpretation that supports radicalization.   

No "apologists" deny the verses in the Koran that support violent extremism (or patriarchy); "apologists" simply choose to spread the message that Islam gives a different and more peaceful choice, just as all religions do. I think that's a heck of a lot better message, both for Muslims and non-Muslims.  Especially since nobody is unaware of the violence engaged in by certain Muslims and Islamic governments.

It's a lovely interpretation and  there are many Muslims who follow your interpretation.  In reality, you prove Dog's point - that the violent verses and directives in the Koran must be ignored by Muslims in order for it to be a peaceful Islam.  They must ignore the directive to emulate Mohammed.

There are also many Muslims who do not share your interpretation of "The People of the Book".  And it seems that many, even here in Canada, are not being taught your interpretation of the Koran, as evidenced by the Jew-hating Al Qud festivals held across Canada (and the world) every year since 1979, which are well-supported by Muslims.

How do you rationalize those two realities?

http://www.cjnews.com/news/canada/toronto-al-quds-day-rally-will-go-ahead-despite-efforts-to-stop-it

http://www.jdl-canada.com/tag/al-quds-day/

https://www.therebel.media/top_10_toronto_al_quds_day_hezbollah_flags_calls_for_eradication_of_israelis

 

Also, how do non-Muslims trust your interpretation is the right one, while witnessing these hate-fests against the very "People of the Book" that they claim to respect?  Do we believe what they SAY, or do be believe their ACTIONS?