Is Gender Irrelevant?

Bonam · June 20, 2014

People on this forum are so enlightened when it comes to gender issues. The dialogue is always informative and intelligent.

Sarcasm aside, the fact that the dialogue is not in lock-step with the latest trendy progressive definitions does not necessarily mean it is unintelligent or uninformed. Just because Facebook now has 58 options for which gender one selects as opposed to just 2 before, doesn't mean that everyone has to agree that that's a valid, sane, or useful way to look at gender. Should schools have 58 separate gendered washrooms perhaps?

And going back to the policy... seriously if someone was actually referred to by the pronoun "xe" by a teacher rather than "she" or "he", all that would do is catch everyone's attention, have everyone wondering/asking about it, and make the individual in question into a public curiosity, especially in elementary school. And except for a few rare publicity-seekers, that doesn't benefit anyone. Whatever gender one might identify as, most people (especially kids in school) just want to be like everyone else, fit in, etc, not be called "xe" and have everyone stare at them. Seriously, this is really basic stuff.

WestCoastRunner · June 20, 2014

WCR. Genetic mutations. To me that means something went wrong in the DNA during pregnancy or during conception. If you compare that to the general population their numbers are small. But larger than ever in the past.

Anything other than a male or female (true for most species really) are mutations. Most likely due to environmental factors like pollution.

The point of my post was to draw attention to the washroom issue in BC. Many children identify with a gender when it isn't obvious to others. Should they have to do their business in the school yard or can they use a washroom inside the school.

jacee · June 20, 2014

WCR. Genetic mutations. To me that means something went wrong in the DNA during pregnancy or during conception. If you compare that to the general population their numbers are small. But larger than ever in the past.

Likely not. Just asserting their right to respect, not being treated like "anomalies" and "something went wrong".

Anything other than a male or female (true for most species really) are mutations. Most likely due to environmental factors like pollution.

"mutations" ... ya, their right not to be referred to as "mutations".

You know ... just normal human respect.

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WestCoastRunner · June 20, 2014

Likely not. Just asserting their right to respect, not being treated like "anomalies" and "something went wrong".

"mutations" ... ya, their right not to be referred to as "mutations".

You know ... just normal human respect.

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Thanks for addressing that Jacee. I had no clue how to address such a disrespectful post. Sometimes these posts leave me flabbergasted and all I can do is ignore.

TimG · June 20, 2014

There are two biological sexes.

People born with ambiguous biology need to pick one and need support if the choice made for them was the wrong one.

Washrooms are assigned based on biological plumbing. Nothing else.

Everyone else is making a wardrobe choice that may or may not be appropriate depending on the circumstances.

Employers have zero obligation to pander to someone's wardrobe choices.

(as the girl with 22 facial piercings has discovered).

Girls sports events are reserved for those biologically female because biological males have a natural advantage in any sport where strength, speed or endurance are key requirements. Allowing biological males to compete in girls sports is like allowing performance enhancing drugs.

Now I realize that some people want to make a big deal out of gender being a social construct but what most people mean when they talk about gender is biology and no amount of the pathetic attempts at social engineering is going to change that nor should it.

Edited June 20, 2014 by TimG

TimG · June 20, 2014

"mutations" ... ya, their right not to be referred to as "mutations".

Someone born with 6 fingers has a mutation. Someone born with albinism has a mutation. Someone born with multiple sex organs is a mutation. It is a basic scientific fact. It neither bad nor good. Your objection is simply an attempt to debase the English language in order to impose your religion on people who simply do not share the same view.

I thought we had moved away from a society where one religion could be imposed on others by the state. I guess progressives think their religion is exempt.

Edited June 20, 2014 by TimG

jacee · June 20, 2014

Someone born with 6 fingers has a mutation. Someone born with albinism has a mutation. Someone born with multiple sex organs is a mutation. It is a basic scientific fact. It neither bad nor good. Your objection is simply an attempt to debase the English language in order to impose your religion on people who simply do not share the same view.

I thought we had moved away from a society where one religion could be imposed on others by the state. I guess progressives think their religion is exempt.

Civility is more a frame of mind than a religion.

TimG · June 20, 2014

Civility is more a frame of mind than a religion.

There was nothing civil about your whining about GostHacked's completely non-judgmental discussion of mutations and the reason(s) for them. Your reaction was the reaction of a religious zealot when confronted with someone discussing the science of evolution. Edited June 20, 2014 by TimG

jacee · June 20, 2014

There was nothing civil about your whining about GostHacked's completely non-judgmental discussion of mutations and the reason(s) for them. Your reaction was the reaction of a religious zealot when confronted with someone discussing the science of evolution.

My reaction to both of you is ... 'Eeeewww, how tacky to label human beings in such hurtful terms. It really is necessary to make policies to get some people to behave in a civil manner!'

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Edited June 20, 2014 by jacee

GostHacked · June 20, 2014

Likely not. Just asserting their right to respect, not being treated like "anomalies" and "something went wrong".

"mutations" ... ya, their right not to be referred to as "mutations".

You know ... just normal human respect.

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It's called genetic mutation. It's not to be disrespectful, it is more explaining biology, mutations and environmental toxicity that may be causing this rise in 'gender confused' people, or hermaphrodites or some of the other situations that you explain.

The thing you could take issue with is my stance on two bathrooms. Male, female. Why all of a sudden after all of human evolution do we need to add another category. What's changed?

My reaction to both of you is ... 'Eeeewww, how tacky to label human beings in such hurtful terms. It really is necessary to make policies to get some people to behave in a civil manner!'

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TimG is correct in his reply to you. A turtle born with two heads. Normal or genetic mutation? Or something went wrong in the pregnancy?

You'd hate to talk to a scientists who would be using the same kind of terminology and approach. One might label a scientist cold hearted, but you can't bring emotion or religion into it.

jacee · June 20, 2014

It's called genetic mutation. It's not to be disrespectful, it is more explaining biology, mutations and environmental toxicity that may be causing this rise in 'gender confused' people, or hermaphrodites or some of the other situations that you explain.

The thing you could take issue with is my stance on two bathrooms. Male, female. Why all of a sudden after all of human evolution do we need to add another category. What's changed?

TimG is correct in his reply to you. A turtle born with two heads. Normal or genetic mutation? Or something went wrong in the pregnancy?

You'd hate to talk to a scientists who would be using the same kind of terminology and approach. One might label a scientist cold hearted, but you can't bring emotion or religion into it.

It is emotional for the people asserting their right to be respected and treated with civility.

And that is what the policy and this discussion are about.

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GostHacked · June 20, 2014

It is emotional for the people asserting their right to be respected and treated with civility.

And that is what the policy and this discussion are about.

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Scientific explanation is indifferent to civility. But that is how they get you with an emotional grab instead of one using some kind of logic or wondering 'why' we currently see this? How did we get here?

jacee · June 21, 2014

Scientific explanation is indifferent to civility. But that is how they get you with an emotional grab instead of one using some kind of logic or wondering 'why' we currently see this? How did we get here?

We got here because every human being deserves respect ... though I'm beginning to wonder about you.

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WestCoastRunner · June 21, 2014

We got here because every human being deserves respect ... though I'm beginning to wonder about you.

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Don't waste your time Jacee and don't allow them their platform to disrespect fellow human beings. It's quite simply, not worth it. They can desensitize all they want down to a scientific level and forgo the human element. Good for them.

WestCoastRunner · June 21, 2014

Don't waste your time Jacee and don't allow them their platform to disrespect fellow human beings. It's quite simply, not worth it. They can desensitize all they want down to a scientific level and forgo the human element. Good for them.

Apparently, my statement was thought to be too inflammatory? Don't you guys have big enough boot straps to handle this?

TimG · June 21, 2014

Don't waste your time Jacee and don't allow them their platform to disrespect fellow human beings.

Why it is disrespectful to point out that some people have abnormalities? Do you really think that a majority of parents would not correct these abnormalities if they were correctable in the womb? Are you really arguing that it is wrong to correct abnormalities when possible?

jacee · June 21, 2014

What on earth are you talking about?

The topic is about the need to refer to and address intersex people respectfully, according to their gender identity.

You could give it a try sometime.

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Edited June 21, 2014 by jacee

Boges · June 21, 2014

What on earth are you talking about?

The topic is about the need to refer to and address intersex people respectfully, according to their gender identity.

You could give it a try sometime.

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You mean the rare person born with both genitalia or someone who doesn't feel the need to be labelled by either gender even though they clearly are one or the other?

I think other members are talking about hermapherdites, while the story I posted was referring to two-spirited people.

Huge difference.

GostHacked · June 21, 2014

We got here because every human being deserves respect ... though I'm beginning to wonder about you.

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Demanding respect is different from understanding how and why they are different. And you EARN respect.

Edited June 21, 2014 by GostHacked

jacee · June 21, 2014

Demanding respect is different from understanding how and why they are different.

And you EARN respect.

How's that working for you?

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Edited June 21, 2014 by jacee

GostHacked · June 21, 2014

How's that going for you?

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How would that go for anyone?

jacee · June 21, 2014

How would that go for anyone?

This thread - the policy under discussion - is about respect for gender identity. Personal physical attributes are a private matter, really not your business and not deserving of such disrespect.

It seems to me you are suggesting that people have to pass a genital inspection to "earn" basic human respect and civility ... have I got that right?

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Edited June 21, 2014 by jacee

jacee · June 21, 2014

You mean the rare person born with both genitalia or someone who doesn't feel the need to be labelled by either gender even though they clearly are one or the other?

I think other members are talking about hermapherdites, while the story I posted was referring to two-spirited people.

Huge difference.

It's about gender identity.

Let's just be clear that inspection of people's genitalia is not an option.

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Hal 9000 · June 22, 2014

It seems odd that a woman with such strong convictions about an issue just happens to have a child who is gender or sexually confused. Is there anyone else who thinks that maybe mom is steering the kid to be female.

WestCoastRunner · June 22, 2014

It seems odd that a woman with such strong convictions about an issue just happens to have a child who is gender or sexually confused. Is there anyone else who thinks that maybe mom is steering the kid to be female.

What a ridiculous statement!