bush_cheney2004 Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) It's apparently my fault for not giving you guys enough to talk about to keep your tiny adolescent minds from wandering back to Caitlyn Jenner. There was plenty to talk about...we never even got to the hue and cry that would have resulted if it had been a female traveler impacted. Coulda been a fun thread perfect for the forum area. But noooooooo.....the usual suspect(s) went into personal attack mode. That's why we can't have nice things ! Edited August 20, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Economics trumps Virtue.
kimmy Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 Well, at least you can get a Participation Award for getting in before the lock! -k (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
-1=e^ipi Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 It's apparently my fault for not giving you guys enough to talk about to keep your tiny adolescent minds from wandering back to Caitlyn Jenner. -k If only I had my adolescent mind. Instead my mind is damaged from a brain injury.
waldo Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 It's apparently my fault for not giving you guys enough to talk about to keep your tiny adolescent minds from wandering back to Caitlyn Jenner. but that 'wanderer' is now claiming that wasn't the reason for the lock... it's cause of those "other usual suspects"! .
WestCoastRunner Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) I would love to see more input from the regular members here contributing to the new threads. And I don't mean Argus and Bc. Edited August 20, 2015 by WestCoastRunner I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
WestCoastRunner Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 but that 'wanderer' is now claiming that wasn't the reason for the lock... it's cause of those "other usual suspects"! . Go figure! I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
kimmy Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 but that 'wanderer' is now claiming that wasn't the reason for the lock... it's cause of those "other usual suspects"! . He's the Keyser Soze of "usual suspects". -k (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
Moonlight Graham Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 I agree with Cybercoma & Argus. And Argus' description of trolling is pretty accurate. Charles, it seems you aren't fully knowledgeable on what "trolling" is, so I'd recommend researching the term. There's significant differences between "flaming" & "trolling". Insults, being rude/hostile, & using profanity towards a user etc. isn't in itself trolling. If I'm in a heated debate with someone & lost my temper & called them an idiot, that would be "flaming". "Trolling" would be If I went into a thread on feminism & said "all feminists are idiots", not because I legitimately want to express that I feel they're idiots, but because I know the feminists participating the thread will likely be offended by my statement & I want to sow emotional discord in them and bait them into an emotional response for my own amusement. "Trolling" involves "baiting" users by purposefully posting comments that are designed to be offensive/upsetting to users so the troll can get sick pleasure from it & get what are called "lulz". From a NY Times article: “Lulz” is how trolls keep score. A corruption of “LOL” or “laugh out loud,” “lulz” means the joy of disrupting another’s emotional equilibrium. “Lulz is watching someone lose their mind at their computer 2,000 miles away while you chat with friends and laugh,” said one ex-troll..." This definition is consistent with the MLW rules against trolling: "...We define "trolling" as a message that serves no constructive purpose and is likely to cause offence or arguments. We define "annoying" as any message that results in a complaint from a registered user -- we will then decide whether to take action.". Charles, your advice to us is to ignore the trolling. Good advice, but I'd remind you that your job as moderator is to enforce the forum rules. There's no reason for us to have rules against trolling if the rule was never meant to be enforced. Trolling is against rules, so it should be enforced. There can be a fine line between "free speech" & "trolling", & you need to make a subjective decision on what is/isn't trolling. There's countless trolling complaints over many years against a certain American user (not the only person to troll, but by far the biggest offender), & quickly looking in this & another thread I count 12 users who complain about this person's trolling: smallc, dre, cybercoma, guyser, jacee, myself, argus, bleeding heart, waldo, gosthacked, westcoastrunner, the_squid. I'm sure the full list is far longer. It significantly harms the quality of MLW forums, but it's your call I've said my peace. In the meantime, everyone should ignore all troll bait. Another good article of trolling. "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) Great...another run at the "American" troll...complete with still more American references for definitions...as usual. You can't make this stuff up. Never heard of "lulz" before....I guess real trolls know about such things. Trolling would also be posting in a thread about 9/11 terror attacks that the Americans "deserved it" and "had it coming". Edited August 20, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 Trolling would also be posting in a thread about 9/11 terror attacks that the Americans "deserved it" and "had it coming". would it? I trust your ultra-sensitivity will hold up under the onslaught of all these American sources, hey! .
Michael Hardner Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 There can be a fine line between "free speech" & "trolling", & you need to make a subjective decision on what is/isn't trolling. Yes, for sure. There's countless trolling complaints over many years against a certain American user But... you just said that the moderator has to make a "subjective" decision. That's what's being done here, so how do the opinions of other respected forum members figure into that ? And, although the discussion appears to be about a particular member, there are other members who are reported by others on here regularly and due to their skillful justification of argument/use of language no action is taken. The key word here is "subjective". Ambiguity of language is one of the reasons that rhetoric is beautiful. Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
waldo Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 The key word here is "subjective". Ambiguity of language is one of the reasons that rhetoric is beautiful. that most succinct prior post offered the subjective assessment from a cursory number of 12 members mentioned by member name... suggesting a complete number would be significantly more. I trust you wouldn't contest that "significantly more" suggestion. Q: In any case, how can that individual and/or collective subjectivity of so many members differ from that of this board's moderator? There is no ambiguity here! A1: It doesn't differ... this moderator simply chooses not to... moderate the trolling of the "American"... as in chooses not to enforce the existing MLW rule against trolling. A2: It differs; accordingly, that subjectivity determination of those many members does not align with the subjectivity determination of this board's moderator. Suggestion: the moderator should step-up and put to rest, once and for all, why so many members subjectivity differs from his. To do so, requires a complete, pointed and targeted assessment of the "American's" posting to the level that speaks to why the subjective trolling assessment of so many members does not align with that of the moderator.
Michael Hardner Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 But "put to rest" is not a realistic scenario. I do not believe that the moderator has an obligation to justify these types of decisions, and I certainly do not believe that the issue would end with such an assertion. Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
cybercoma Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 There was plenty to talk about...we never even got to the hue and cry that would have resulted if it had been a female traveler impacted. Coulda been a fun thread perfect for the forum area. But noooooooo.....the usual suspect(s) went into personal attack mode. That's why we can't have nice things !Oh boo hoo. You got what you wanted. You derailed the thread and it's locked down. Congratulations on your successful trolling.
scribblet Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 More likely it was locked because of the personal attacks and inflammatory language. Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
cybercoma Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 Oh most likely. I'm sure it had nothing to do with derailing the thread with garbage about transgender people. Why on earth would a thread be locked for trolling when Charles doesn't even know what trolling is.
scribblet Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 You know, this whole thread and accusations of trolling is ridiculous, this vendetta against a poster you disagree with is silly. I've been a member since 2003 and have seen this forum deteriorate into mostly silly infighting, infantile accusations and a lot of never never land stuff. Maybe it's time to move on and grow up. Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
cybercoma Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) Why do people like you always think it's about disagreeing with posters? I disagree with a lot of people on this forum and they're not trolls. There's only two people trolling the crap out of this forum, consistently derailing threads and conversations with their non sequitur interjections. Just about everyone recognizes it (including the Troll in Chief himself) and nothing is ever done about it. So don't come in here whining about me "disagreeing" with posters when the only appropriate response to trolling on this site is to report and ignore troll back, since the trolling itself is never addressed. Edited August 20, 2015 by cybercoma
Moonlight Graham Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) But... you just said that the moderator has to make a "subjective" decision. That's what's being done here, so how do the opinions of other respected forum members figure into that ? Subjective, but the evidence is overwhelming. Do you disagree this poster is continually trying to offend people and bait them into an emotional response? IMO, if trolling isn't enforced in this extreme case then it will never be enforced here in any case, or at least it shouldn't. If many "respected" users made complaints about something I'd hope that would be taken into consideration. edit; I'll also say that my main concern here is for these boards to have discussions where users are "polite and respectful of others" (as per the rules). This includes a few consistent offenders, via trolling, flaming, or whatnot. Edited August 20, 2015 by Moonlight Graham "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 But "put to rest" is not a realistic scenario. I do not believe that the moderator has an obligation to justify these types of decisions, and I certainly do not believe that the issue would end with such an assertion. Agreed...the "American troll" could drop dead today and the usual complainants would just continue the tirades and personal attacks. Crucifying "the American member" (if only to satisfy some underlying anti-American neurosis that feeds the rage and forum rules violations) would satiate for only a few days. Other members with sanctimony biting posts and differing political or economic views would invite yet more personal attacks and more of a remarkable inability to follow moderator direction(s) or their own advice to "not feed trolls". Economics trumps Virtue.
Black Dog Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 More likely it was locked because of the personal attacks and inflammatory language. The purpose of trolling is to incite such things, so yeah, it was the trolling that got that topic shuttered. If certain posters continue to incite certain responses (and not because they are bringing anything new or challenging to the table), doesn't it make sense to excise that cancer?
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 Individual members are responsible for their own behaviour and posts regardless of what another member may add to a forum topic. Constantly whining about "trolls" does not change this reality. Personal attacks clearly have been and continue to be a violation of forum rules, and those who scream "troll" the most violate this rule the most. Economics trumps Virtue.
Big Guy Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) What surprises me is that posters spend valuable time on their computers with the intention of causing discomfort for others. We see the same people insulting others all the time. I suggest that a post is made to agree with something, disagree with something or add clarity to a discussion of an issue. Instead, a few posters insult each other and some insult everyone. When I first joined, I engaged b_c2004 after he/she decided to go after my posts. Soon, I realized it was a waste of time since that is the obvious intent of that poster. At first I was sure that b_c was a plant by the site owner to “stir up the pot” when things started to slow down. A board survives on “action” - number of participants/issues/comments. I was notified that the poster is not an artificial plant so I started to ignore him I assume a him). The fact the he has posted over 38,000 posts indicates an acceptance by the administration of his antics. So be it. It is their board – but then judge others by the same standard. As to the tone, read through a thread. How many posts in each thread are confrontational and do nothing to advance the discussion? My guy is better than your guy. No, my guy is better than your guy. No, you are wrong and an idiot. You are not only an idiot but ... There is also a palatable dislike of some posters of others. The only time they join a discussion is to insult their perceived nemesis. A few posters seem to not like any other posters. I can only assume that some people take pleasure in making others either uncomfortable or angry. Perhaps elevating their own egos in the process. What an unpleasant, unhealthy and unproductive waste of precious time! Edited August 20, 2015 by Big Guy Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Black Dog Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 Trolling is a violation of forum rules, whether the moderators choose to enforce that rule or not.
bush_cheney2004 Posted August 20, 2015 Report Posted August 20, 2015 ...I can only assume that some people take pleasure in making others either uncomfortable or angry. Perhaps elevating their own egos in the process. No member knows this better than the one who enjoys classic passive aggressive behaviour as a way to attack other members, other nationals, and the actions/inactions of forum moderators. Economics trumps Virtue.
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