Boeing 777 Disappears Near Vietnam

[GostHacked]

It would be interesting to know what other cargo was on that airplane;

"Malaysian officials have confirmed that a consignment of lithium-ion batteries was in the cargo hold of Flight MH370. “These are not regarded as dangerous goods,” said the CEO of Malaysian Airlines, Ahmad Jauhari Yahya, “and were packed as recommended by the International Civil Aviation Organisation.”"

More at;

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/21/the-secret-far-deep-hunt-for-mh370.html

You realize that every cell phone and most handheld digital devices have LI-Ion batteries? I call bogus on this conspiracy theory put forth by the officials.

[Michael Hardner]

... the bogus Iranian connection.

Two people on board with fake passports would seem suspicious to anyone. Conspiracy buffs have made more hay with less seed than this many times.

[GostHacked]

Two people on board with fake passports would seem suspicious to anyone. Conspiracy buffs have made more hay with less seed than this many times.

I contest the term 'conspiracy buff' and your application of it to anyone who questions and can point out discrepancies on any official story.

Just look at the photo officials released of the suspected Iranians. Who let that one slip through? Don't they vet this stuff before throwing it out into the public sphere?

Edited April 3, 2014 by GostHacked

[Michael Hardner]

I contest the term 'conspiracy buff' and your application of it to anyone who questions and can point out discrepancies on any official story.

Understood. I contest the term 'official story'.

Just look at the photo officials released of the suspected Iranians. Who let that one slip through? Don't they vet this stuff before throwing it out into the public sphere?

Yes, the invisible hand of conspiracy can deploy thousands of agents, keep huge secrets under wraps, and yet they make such obvious mistakes... This is exactly the same conspiracy script we had with the 9/11 conspiracies, such as the BBC 'accidentally announcing the collapse of WTC7 early'.

So all we know about this invisible hand is that they're brilliant, except when they're stupid.

[GostHacked]

Understood. I contest the term 'official story'.

Why? It was officials who put the story forth. A story from the point of authority.

Yes, the invisible hand of conspiracy can deploy thousands of agents, keep huge secrets under wraps, and yet they make such obvious mistakes... This is exactly the same conspiracy script we had with the 9/11 conspiracies, such as the BBC 'accidentally announcing the collapse of WTC7 early'.

So all we know about this invisible hand is that they're brilliant, except when they're stupid.

Maybe that is part of the plan. People cannot tell if they are brilliant or stupid. And that ambiguity allows questions to remain without ever getting a proper answer.

Yes BBC announced it fell and the building was still visible in the background with their live feed. I recall very clearly that day that CNN was reporting it was about to fall. I was ready to leave a friends place to meet up with others when that announcement came through. So we looked at each other with WTF faces and moments later we watched building 7 come down. It was aired live. They knew the building was about to come down.

And remember a sole passport managed to escape the wreckage which just happened to be one of the suspected terrorists passports. Those are some incredible odds. Or it's an invincible passport.

But let's get back to the topic at hand. Do you have an opinion or just want to throw everything else to the floor?

[Michael Hardner]

Why? It was officials who put the story forth. A story from the point of authority.

Let's attribute explanations from individuals where we can. It's a lot clearer, and makes mistakes and opinions easier to attribute.

The idea of the Iranians being part of it was likely rooted in speculation in the mainstream media, which is not official at all.

Maybe that is part of the plan. People cannot tell if they are brilliant or stupid. And that ambiguity allows questions to remain without ever getting a proper answer.

Exactly - so they make mistakes and expose themselves to help confuse the issue ! Brilliant !

Yes, that was sarcasm. If that's the case, then the conspiracy researchers who come up with this stuff are likely in on it too... where does it end ? Am I in on it ? Somebody needs to tell me because if so, I am owed a cheque.

Yes BBC announced it fell and the building was still visible in the background with their live feed. I recall very clearly that day that CNN was reporting it was about to fall. I was ready to leave a friends place to meet up with others when that announcement came through. So we looked at each other with WTF faces and moments later we watched building 7 come down. It was aired live. They knew the building was about to come down.

Right, but now we're saying that maybe that story was pre-leaked on purpose to that we can see that they're actually stupid sometimes... or... uh....

So confusing.

And remember a sole passport managed to escape the wreckage which just happened to be one of the suspected terrorists passports. Those are some incredible odds. Or it's an invincible passport.

Yes, incredible odds. However, if you can think of 1000s of events which have incredible odds against them, then keep in mind one or two of these will likely happen. So, combing through the wreckage over thousands of things will come up with more than a few incredible things.

I don't have an opinion. I'm content to wait until the search teams find the black box that may explain it. Some of the crazier speculations, of course, deserve derision.

[Wilber]

No that's not a simple explanation!

What kind of incompetence can lead to a huge plane just vanishing without a trace? And how the hell can anybody not know what happened?

There must be hundreds if not billions of dollars being spent on the search, and there's absolutely nothing! But you suggest that hey it's just some people that don't know what they are doing combined with the latest tech. that is completely incapable, totally useless now?

Man that's some far flung way out there theory to believe that!

WWWTT

I think you have an exaggerated view of the "latest tech" in use when it comes to communicating an aircraft's position when it is beyond radar coverage and VHF communication. The primary method is voice communication by HF radio. In some areas such as the North Atlantic, ATC and airlines who choose to equip and pay for the service can use a system called Controller Pilot Data link Communications (CPDLC) which can send communications between ATC and the aircraft through the ACARS by satellite. There is no automatic position reporting, it must be done by the crew. Recently one has been developed but is not in use because the need hasn't justified the cost yet.

From a technical point of view, it is entirely possible that a large aircraft could vanish without a trace. We just don't know why in this case.

[bush_cheney2004]

...I don't have an opinion. I'm content to wait until the search teams find the black box that may explain it. Some of the crazier speculations, of course, deserve derision.

Sounds good to me....I'm content even if they never find a damn thing. This isn't the first time a plane or ship has gone "missing". Frankly, it's a wonder and major improvement that it happens so infrequently compared to the past.

[Wilber]

Or a bunch from the Polish government. But to answer your question, it may be about patents that are worth big money.

Have any of the main stream media outlets made this connection or is it the sole territory of wing nut conspiracy sites that have the Illuminati responsible for everything that happens?

[GostHacked]

Have any of the main stream media outlets made this connection or is it the sole territory of wing nut conspiracy sites that have the Illuminati responsible for everything that happens?

The Polish thing I was referring to was that plane that crashed in Russia loaded with top Polish government officials. Who said anything about the Illuminati? No one in this thread.

But hey, any theory you can come up with at the present is as valid as anything else that has been put forth. Why? Because we still know nothing about this plane.

[Wilber]

The Polish thing I was referring to was that plane that crashed in Russia loaded with top Polish government officials. Who said anything about the Illuminati? No one in this thread.

But hey, any theory you can come up with at the present is as valid as anything else that has been put forth. Why? Because we still know nothing about this plane.

I was referring to the alleged Carlisle connection. No, not all theories are equal, some are actually based on knowledge of the subject.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Wilber

[GostHacked]

I was referring to the alleged Carlisle connection. No, not all theories are equal, some are actually based on knowledge of the subject.

Carlisle had huge investments in Freescale.

[Wilber]

Carlisle had huge investments in Freescale.

So? I'll humour this theory long enough to put forward this. For anyone to get ownership of patents belonging to someone on that aircraft, they would have to prove they were dead. Making the aircraft disappear instead of just destroying it would complicate the issue.

[WWWTT]

I think you have an exaggerated view of the "latest tech" in use when it comes to communicating an aircraft's position when it is beyond radar coverage and VHF communication. The primary method is voice communication by HF radio. In some areas such as the North Atlantic, ATC and airlines who choose to equip and pay for the service can use a system called Controller Pilot Data link Communications (CPDLC) which can send communications between ATC and the aircraft through the ACARS by satellite. There is no automatic position reporting, it must be done by the crew. Recently one has been developed but is not in use because the need hasn't justified the cost yet.

From a technical point of view, it is entirely possible that a large aircraft could vanish without a trace. We just don't know why in this case.

As I understand it you are applying different possibilities on what was known to happen.

The plane made a sharp turn and flew in a direction that would have made the plane visible to radar. Not to mention that it was flying through a busy route. Where this plane first went missing was not the north Atlantic or south Indian oceans. As well the area was extensively searched and nothing turned up.

And what about the engine pinging signals back to satellites?

No sorry, you have omitted/substituted some critical facts so I'm going to have to start asking you to back up your claims here.

I'm not going to start forgetting known facts to entertain your speculations!

WWWTT

[overthere]

Is there a grassy knoll anywhere near Kuala Lumpur?

[WWWTT]

Sounds good to me....I'm content even if they never find a damn thing. This isn't the first time a plane or ship has gone "missing". Frankly, it's a wonder and major improvement that it happens so infrequently compared to the past.

Ever heard of the reading caboose?

This comment fits perfectly on that show!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=POrF0SnM5NQ#t=228

WWWTT

Edited April 3, 2014 by WWWTT

[GostHacked]

So? I'll humour this theory long enough to put forward this. For anyone to get ownership of patents belonging to someone on that aircraft, they would have to prove they were dead. Making the aircraft disappear instead of just destroying it would complicate the issue.

The patents belong to the company, not the individuals who worked on the patents. Seems that is the case with many corporations. You work on a project and if a patent comes about, it belongs to the company. So even if you take these people out, Carlisle can still access the patents. If the people worked on a patent outside of the company, then that is a different story, possibly. Depends on stupid legalities and other crap.

So no matter if the plane vanished or blew up, the patents are still with the company and not the people. However if you take out some people, you may have less resistance to obtaining the patents from others in the company.

Not saying this is exactly the case. But don't put it past certain idiots to take others out if it will financially benefit them. Greed is very powerful.

[Wilber]

So what's the point of taking out individuals?

[GostHacked]

So what's the point of taking out individuals?

I do not know. Just throwing it out there. I have no idea what motives, if any, were responsible for the disappearance of the plane.

[Wilber]

As I understand it you are applying different possibilities on what was known to happen.

The plane made a sharp turn and flew in a direction that would have made the plane visible to radar. Not to mention that it was flying through a busy route. Where this plane first went missing was not the north Atlantic or south Indian oceans. As well the area was extensively searched and nothing turned up.

And what about the engine pinging signals back to satellites?

No sorry, you have omitted/substituted some critical facts so I'm going to have to start asking you to back up your claims here.

I'm not going to start forgetting known facts to entertain your speculations!

WWWTT

Yes a turn was observed by radar but once the aircraft was three hundred miles out to sea, radar would not be able to track it. A little thing called the curvature of the earth. The pings were just the aircraft and satellite checking for connectivity No data was transferred. Malaysian does not subscribe to the service that sends engine data back to the manufacturer and Rolls Royce said they had received no data from MH 370. MH 370's possible tracks were calculated by Immarsat annalysing the doppler effect of the aircraft's pings, that is why they aren't very precise.

These and my explanations about how aircraft position reports are made aren't speculations, they are how the system works.

So now we have a conspiracy that so far involves the US government, the Carlisle group and two British companies, Immarsat and Rolls Royce. That's the problem with these theories, for them to work they have to involve so many different people and agencies, it would be impossible to keep them secret.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Wilber

[On Guard for Thee]

Perhaps this has already been addressed so apologies if it has, but there's a discrepancy in my mind if the aircraft was pinging 7 hours after the turn, which is about when it would have run out of fuel according to the docs., then how come they now say it was burning more fuel and crashed about 2 pings previous? How many pings do they have once and for all. I can see it burning more gas if the throttles were set to climb powert and the fms levelled off at a preset altitude for instance, but the ping discrepancy seems to be one more issue that makes this whole thing look a bit like when we were kids with a ouji board.

[WWWTT]

Yes a turn was observed by radar but once the aircraft was three hundred miles out to sea, radar would not be able to track it. A little thing called the curvature of the earth. The pings were just the aircraft and satellite checking for connectivity No data was transferred. Malaysian does not subscribe to the service that sends engine data back to the manufacturer and Rolls Royce said they had received no data from MH 370. MH 370's possible tracks were calculated by Immarsat annalysing the doppler effect of the aircraft's pings, that is why they aren't very precise.

These and my explanations about how aircraft position reports are made aren't speculations, they are how the system works.

So now we have a conspiracy that so far involves the US government, the Carlisle group and two British companies, Immarsat and Rolls Royce. That's the problem with these theories, for them to work they have to involve so many different people and agencies, it would be impossible to keep them secret.

Nope sorry, you're changing facts again!

When the plane turned, it should have been heading back into radar covered territory.

Also what you're saying is blatantly confusing.

How could the plane be tracked successfully, be clearly shown that the plane made a sharp turn and then suddenly vanish??? You are leaving too many gaps!

It is you that is first entering into speculation as to what happens, when people start questioning speculation that is riddled with gaps, that is not proof that some of us believe is some wild conspiracy.

Also you're going to have to start posting some links to back up your claims here, otherwise you are just asking for us to believe your opinion.

WWWTT

Edited April 4, 2014 by WWWTT

[WWWTT]

Perhaps this has already been addressed so apologies if it has, but there's a discrepancy in my mind if the aircraft was pinging 7 hours after the turn, which is about when it would have run out of fuel according to the docs., then how come they now say it was burning more fuel and crashed about 2 pings previous? How many pings do they have once and for all. I can see it burning more gas if the throttles were set to climb powert and the fms levelled off at a preset altitude for instance, but the ping discrepancy seems to be one more issue that makes this whole thing look a bit like when we were kids with a ouji board.

The plane actually has a range of 13 500kms. So theoretically if the plane cruised at 1K/hr it could fly for 13.5 hrs! I believe that this plane CAN fly to N.America, Europe and Afrika. But not sure if it would make it to S.America? And clearly Australia and many other Pacific islands.

I posted the link of this in this thread.

It is very possible that there was more fuel in the plane than what was first reported or was supposed to be.

But all these possibilities are not discussed.

Everything seems to be (or was for a time) focused around one pilot?

This story in the western media is starting to fade away, but in China, there is still almost 24/7 coverage!!!

The Chinese are going to push this one, you can be sure of that!

WWWTT

[GostHacked]

WWWTT, since they were not flying at 1000 kph, that time would be longer. So average about 700kph, maybe close to 20 hrs.

[Wilber]

The plane actually has a range of 13 500kms. So theoretically if the plane cruised at 1K/hr it could fly for 13.5 hrs! I believe that this plane CAN fly to N.America, Europe and Afrika. But not sure if it would make it to S.America? And clearly Australia and many other Pacific islands.

I posted the link of this in this thread.

It is very possible that there was more fuel in the plane than what was first reported or was supposed to be.

But all these possibilities are not discussed.

Everything seems to be (or was for a time) focused around one pilot?

This story in the western media is starting to fade away, but in China, there is still almost 24/7 coverage!!!

The Chinese are going to push this one, you can be sure of that!

WWWTT

The internet and theory are wonderful things but they often don't explain how things work in the real world.

Yes the aircraft is capable of flying a long way but fueling an aircraft is not like filling up your car. they rarely fly with full tanks. Fuel is the biggest expense an airline has, so its use is tightly controlled for both economic and safety reasons. It is expensive to carry excess fuel and airlines try to avoid it. A rule of thumb is that it you will cost you 10% of any extra fuel loaded just to carry the added weight. A typical fuel load for a flight would include enough fuel to get to its destination and do an approach, plus enough fuel to get to its alternate airport and hold for 30 minutes. On top of this, contingency fuel will be added for things like weather and possible ATC delays. These calculations are done by the flight planning department. Fueling would be overseen by dispatch, maintenance and the fuel company, not the crew. The crew would check the flight plan fuel against the fuel on board and they might add some extra fuel but would need a reason and could not keep it a secret.

The aircraft's takeoff performance is also predicated on its weight and airport density altitude, so no it is not possible that there was more fuel on the airplane than reported.

I hope this has been educational.

Again, your conspiracy theory has to involve far too many people for it to work.