gunrutz Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 The arguments against having some form of ID are so silly i can't imagine how anyone could seriously make them. The next election is more than a year away, anyone who seriously wants to vote and doesn't have one of the thirty something types of ID should get it now, if you can't be bothered, than you don't care and probably wouldn't vote anyway. The two largest provinces don't allow vouching in provincial elections, no one complains, there are no native people, or homeless people in Ontario that might want to vote in an election? Of course the conservatives don't want those people to vote, because of course the vast majority of people who live on the streets, or who don't have a job, or an adress, or bills, or a car, etc are probably not voting for the big bad cons. So of course the other parties want these peolple to vote, they need to be taken care of, and who better to do it than the liberals or the NDP. Having some type of ID, and there are many, is not too onerous a burden on the vast majority of people who want to vote, and for the vast majority of those people who might not have the ID now they could probably get it, if they cared to. If they do I can't imagine the vouching aspect of this act having any real impact on the vote, and i they don't get the ID they never tried very hard, some people will always fall through the cracks, no system is perfect, but ensuring you are who you say you are is not a lot to ask of anyone. "One of the following, issued by the responsible authority of a shelter, soup kitchen, student/senior residence, or long-term care facility: attestation of residence, letter of stay, admission form or statement of benefits" So a letter from the soup kitchen isn't lenient enough? Come on people, respect for our democracy is a two way street, if the individual wants to keep our democracy strong managing to have any of these very basic forms of identification is the least we can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 No one's arguing against having a form of ID. The argument is that the government is unilaterally trying to change electoral law without showing a need to do so. It's not JUST the ID that's the problem. The entire act is filled with questionable changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 No one's arguing against having a form of ID. The argument is that the government is unilaterally trying to change electoral law without showing a need to do so. It's not JUST the ID that's the problem. The entire act is filled with questionable changes. If it's not the ID, which changes do you actually question then? The closest thing to a legitimate disagreement that I've seen is over which building an investigator's office should be located. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepitsimple Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 No one's arguing against having a form of ID. The argument is that the government is unilaterally trying to change electoral law without showing a need to do so. It's not JUST the ID that's the problem. The entire act is filled with questionable changes. That's the whole point - it's NOT a big deal.....and some of the other items can be dealt with in committee.....and then the opposition can start arguing.....but the vouching/ID has been another huge tempest in a teapot - not an "attack on democracy" or the "dis-enfranchising of up to 500,000 people". All we're doing is catching up with the rest of the world.....except we're doing it in a more lenient way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Catching up, in a race to the bottom. I guess I should be glad at least someone in Ottawa is trying to apply the brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Lets face it, the opposition parties will drum up opposition to anything that the Conservatives do.....and Mark Mayrand is simply proving that he has lost all perspective on the Fair Elections Act. Jean Pierre Kingsley, the former Elections Commissioner who preceded Mayrand rated the Act an A minus when being grilled by Evan Solomon on Power & Politics. Another mountain out of a molehill. Link: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/election-reform-bill-gets-an-a-minus-from-ex-election-chief-1.2523345 So you have absolutely nothing to say in defense of this bill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 There's only one reason anyone would be opposed to ID requirements: they INTEND to commit fraud and are concerned they might not get away with it. Actually no... ID requirements are often used to simply add a hoop to jump through and they disproportionately target low income voters. Really I could care less because anybody that even bothers to participate in our political system is helping to perpetuate it, and is part of the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted April 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 I suggest that all of you go to C-PAC online and watch the senate hearings and you may come away with a different view on this topic. Kingsley, has many objections or needed amends to this bill. When asked about a national voter card, he said back in 1992 Mexico put in place just that and in 1995 all Mexicans has a national ID voter plastic car that has their picture, name, address, a set of numbers and finger prints, which they have to have or they can't not vote. As far as vouching, he said all it is needed to for the person voting and the person vouching to sign their name to a document, that takes care of it. He also, said as far as the robo calls scam, we may never find out because the feds don't have a rule that people HAVE come forward and testify. Well, we know why the feds are changing this rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Does a Health Card count as ID? Not those old Red and White ones but the ones with a photo. If so, the argument about attacking low income voters isn't valid because those are free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted April 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Justin ask the PM if the vote on this Act could be a "free" one and the PM avoided answering the question. So, since my riding MP is a Tory, I'm asking him to put on his website, his views of the Act and if it needs any changes. The PM also said that the Opposition Parties should go out and talk to Canadians about their views when the PM was answering Justin's question and then the NDP leader, asked the PM if he was saying now, the government should now hold opening meetings across the country?? Harper was silent and let Pierre have the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 (edited) Justin Trudeau has just come out of a caucus meeting and declared that if/when he is Prime Minister, he promises to repeal this Fair Elections Act in its entirety. Is this a smart political move? Does this mean that now Pierre Poilievre will bite the bullet and have to allow amendments to this proposed bill? Edited April 9, 2014 by Big Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 And I believe that JT will repeal the law. Yours, The GST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleeding heart Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Ok...got to admit, nice catch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted April 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Kingsely said that the ID was changed in 2006, so that's means the Tories change to what we have now,which they are saying is not good enough. So, if that is true, then are they creating a crisis, just to change it so they can take advantage of the problem. I think more voters will vote in the 2015, just to show the Tories they are wrong on this and even it they did made amendments, they be small and they won't touch parts,were the people have to come forward to testify, anything to do with robocalls or anything the Tories have been found guilty of by the courts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 QP was a hoot today. Harper's obfuscation was more blatant and more repetative than I've ever heard. Mind you Poilievere scored a pretty good second place. Of course the floor crossing's and gesturing rounded out the gong show. I'm lovin' it. I have a pretty good idea what it will do the polls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 Does a Health Card count as ID? Not those old Red and White ones but the ones with a photo. If so, the argument about attacking low income voters isn't valid because those are free. My province doesn't have a picture on their health cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted April 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 As one senate said, since the Harper government is creating this mess, then they should produce a voters card to everyone in Canada to vote and then this apart would not be a problem for the government but that not why they are doing this. This is about taking away the power from the head of EC because he had done his duty by finding the wrong doings by this party. This all about stopping any more investigating into the robocalls which the court says came from the Tory database, which by the way, Pierre's girlfriend/ex, had the passwords to the data. IF the Tories were really serious about finding the truth, we would have had it by now but they are stalling and not helping EC. I just hope the Tories supporters wake up and smell the corruption before the election! I'm starting to wonder if this party ever did win the elections fairly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 As one senate said, since the Harper government is creating this mess, then they should produce a voters card to everyone in Canada to vote and then this apart would not be a problem for the government but that not why they are doing this. This is about taking away the power from the head of EC because he had done his duty by finding the wrong doings by this party. This all about stopping any more investigating into the robocalls which the court says came from the Tory database, which by the way, Pierre's girlfriend/ex, had the passwords to the data. IF the Tories were really serious about finding the truth, we would have had it by now but they are stalling and not helping EC. I just hope the Tories supporters wake up and smell the corruption before the election! I'm starting to wonder if this party ever did win the elections fairly. I think a lot of us have been wondering the same thing for some time. How could you not given given the "stickhandling" Harper and Co. have done to to try and bury it. I hadn't heard this business about the passwords. I guess all we can do is hope the RCMP gets their job done pre-election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 Does a Health Card count as ID? Not those old Red and White ones but the ones with a photo. Whatever ID you have needs to show a physical residential address. If an election is called and you're homeless at the time which can mean anything from living in a park, your car, couch surfing etc you're out of luck without someone to vouch for you. If so, the argument about attacking low income voters isn't valid because those are free. The argument appears to ring true for at least 200,000 Canadians according to the Homeless Hub. Chronic homeless: 4,000 to 8,000 Episodic homeless: 6,000 to 22,000 Transitionally homeless: 176,000 to 188,000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepitsimple Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 Whatever ID you have needs to show a physical residential address. If an election is called and you're homeless at the time which can mean anything from living in a park, your car, couch surfing etc you're out of luck without someone to vouch for you. The argument appears to ring true for at least 200,000 Canadians according to the Homeless Hub. Nope. The homeless can get a "letter of attestation" from a Soup Kitchen or a Shelter. The Act covers just about all the bases for those people who actually want to vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 If you're homeless, how can you prove you're a resident of the riding in question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 Nope. The homeless can get a "letter of attestation" from a Soup Kitchen or a Shelter.. A voucher in other words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 Not the same as a voucher, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted April 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 There's problem with the soup kitchens and nursing home/retirement homes.... the minister says that all has to be done is the head/owners of each can sign and ok the person.......problem is as said by head of EC, they don't HAVE sign or vouch and so if they decide they don't want to do it, then don't and the person can't vote. So try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 If you're homeless, how can you prove you're a resident of the riding in question? By getting someone to vouch for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpg.9a49e1b2f22a6d34a345152c50044aa9.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.