Fair Election Act

[eyeball]

So, am I to understand the bugaboo the PIK's of the world are frightened of, is that millions of lefties might run around to as many polling stations as they can and cast multiple votes? Third world countries have the answer for dealing with that, just make everyone dip their finger in a bottle of dye.

One vote, one dip. No need to rewrite the election act for that is there?

[On Guard for Thee]

So, am I to understand the bugaboo the PIK's of the world are frightened of, is that millions of lefties might run around to as many polling stations as they can and cast multiple votes? Third world countries have the answer for dealing with that, just make everyone dip their finger in a bottle of dye.

One vote, one dip. No need to rewrite the election act for that is there?

Will we get to have a say in the color of the dye? That blue they use gives me flashbacks to days working in the Arctic in winter.

[ReeferMadness]

You're a perfect example of the debate you're complaining of. I don't think there's a single substantive point in this post.

What dose that have to do with the bill? I've seen tons of posts like yours all claiming this massive disenfranchisement.

What I haven't seen is any credible argument to support that, nor a single example of a person who would not be able to vote after these changes. Can you offer one?

That's rich. The guy who kisses the asses of the government that has consistently gone out of its way to suppress scientific evidence that doesn't agree with it ideology accuses me of having no substantive point.

And I can easily come up with lots of examples of people who would have difficulty coming up with the requisite documentation.

Homeless people. People who live in rural areas who have their mail sent to General Delivery. People who've recently moved. People who get their bills emailed to them and delete them when they're done. I've known lots of people who are too disorganized to find an old bill. Hell, I used to be one of those people. People who pay room and board have no utility bills. I just saw a post on the Huffington Post from a guy who said his wife couldn't vote without vouching. She doesn't have a drivers license and the bills/bank statements come addressed to him.

Just because you lack the imagination to come up with scenarios where people lack ID doesn't mean they don't exist. And it's just plain wrong to disenfranchise people on the basis of solving a problem that nobody can substantiate.

Your Dear Leader is just plain wrong and so are you. Hurts, I know but there it is.

[ReeferMadness]

In this day and age and you can't come up with the proper ID then you have NO right to vote.

Sez you. And Chairman Harper.

The dynamic duo.

[On Guard for Thee]

As I think Squid pointed out, we have had the right to vote since 1867. Did they have picture ID then I wonder? Probably not but somewhow our democracy seems to have hung together. What's all this paranoia? Are there now hordes of phony voter perpetrators emerging from the sands of time? Harper knows exactly what he's doing, and if it all fails he'll throw Polievre under the bus too. Anybody want to go to work for Harper? Apparently he has a few job openings.

[ReeferMadness]

Anyone with an IQ greater than that of a cucumber can see that this is just one more attempt by the Cons to rig the vote. People without ID are overwhelmingly low income and this is not the demographic the votes for Harper.

This is the most corrupt administration in my lifetime - possibly the most corrupt in Canadian history. Throw the bums out in 2015.

[cybercoma]

One vote, one dip. No need to rewrite the election act for that is there?

It might even encourage more people to vote. "I see your finger hasn't been dipped. WHY DO YOU HATE DEMOCRACY, HEATHEN!?"

[Keepitsimple]

It's always a good idea to see what's going on in the world outside......and while this controversy rages inside Canada - most other Western countries have had even more restrictive Voter ID laws. Here we are, trying to take a middle road (39 ID Choices) - and look what happens! Turmoil.

From continental Europe, the hot topic of voter ID laws (i.a. laws that require a photo identification to vote) in this presidential campaign seems like a very strange controversy.

Even though, this topic is not much covered in the European media, I bet most Europeans would be surprised, "You mean people can to the poll and vote without ID in the U.S.?". Simply, "yes!".

Of course, most European countries have long had some form of national identification, it be a formal ID Card or an alternative proof of identity, such as a driver's licence. This identification seems particularly useful when you need to prove you're the right person registered to vote.

So the United States is a bit of an oddity in this respect, along with, (surprise!), the United Kingdom -two countries where there is no true identify card issued by the government, other than a passport (and most Americans have never had one). (see the list of identity card policy by country here)

Link: http://aproposfrance-usa.blogspot.com/2012/08/voter-id-laws.html Edited April 1, 2014 by Keepitsimple

[hitops]

Homeless people. People who live in rural areas who have their mail sent to General Delivery. People who've recently moved. People who get their bills emailed to them and delete them when they're done. I've known lots of people who are too disorganized to find an old bill. Hell, I used to be one of those people. People who pay room and board have no utility bills. I just saw a post on the Huffington Post from a guy who said his wife couldn't vote without vouching. She doesn't have a drivers license and the bills/bank statements come addressed to him.

Nice try but:

General delivery: This was fixed in 2007 with the passing of the Residence of Verification bill.

Get bills emailed: Requesting one paper bill will take approximately a 5 second phone call or email to any bank or utility.

Recently moved: Update address with bank or any utility, have them send you paper statement. I had to do this to get driver's in new province. Went to bank, updated address, had printout with new address. Took about 10 min. Went and got driver's same day.

Too disorganized: That's your own fault, you're disenfranchising yourself. Even in that case, you can get a copy of an old utility (if you lost it) with a simple phone call or email.

Pay room and board: Those people still have bank accounts, debit and credit cards.

Wife can't vote: Add her to anything, get printout.

Homeless: The is the hardest one. Yet, even the homeless can use correspondence with social assistance (which does not require a fixed address) or even attestation by a soup kitchen (read the elections act).

Just for fun though, let's think about the absurdity of the homeless example. What you're implying with this argument is a homeless guy who fulfills all of the following:

- Is able to identify the current day, and realize when election day occurs

- Prioritizes voting

- Successfully voted in the last election

- Has somebody in their social circle who has it together enough to have documents themselves, and is willing to vouch for them (you know, one of those regular established and responsible people the homeless are known to associated with).

- Is too incapable of gathering the available options, yet organized enough to find this person and arrange to have them vouch for them at an appointed time

Boy I would love to meet this truly unique homeless person. The number of homeless falling into this description is probably somewhere between zero and zero.

Just because you lack the imagination to come up with scenarios where people lack ID doesn't mean they don't exist.

Well you've got me there. I'm stuck on identifying an actual person rather than an imaginary one.

And it's just plain wrong to disenfranchise people on the basis of solving a problem that nobody can substantiate.

You would need a mechanism to substantiate it, in order to do so. As we don't have one, it's a lot like pointing out that a blind person cannot identify a sunset.

Take the argument further. If the point is ease of voting, why stop at vouching? Just put it as an anonymous poll online that anyone can access, set up like the a daily CBC poll. No need to register or anything, just log in and vote. After all, why ask for any kind of formal process to verify, that would be 'disenfranchising' somebody somewhere.

Edited April 1, 2014 by hitops

[Big Guy]

So, am I to understand the bugaboo the PIK's of the world are frightened of, is that millions of lefties might run around to as many polling stations as they can and cast multiple votes? Third world countries have the answer for dealing with that, just make everyone dip their finger in a bottle of dye.

One vote, one dip. No need to rewrite the election act for that is there?

Great idea! The coloured finger may become a status and fashion symbol. Lazy people could get it tattooed on permanently and the poorer ones could use magic markers. On second thought, a blue finger may be noticeable enough. Perhaps a large letter X on the forehead would be more appropriate.

[Big Guy]

On a less serious note, I thought that the trend was to eventually go to voting on-line as an option. With only on-line voting we would not be bothered by all that riff-raff luddite population that keeps electing the wrong people.

[cybercoma]

CNIB is now criticizing it, saying blind Canadians are not likely to have the requisite ID on them when they go to vote.

[guyser]

CNIB is now criticizing it, saying blind Canadians are not likely to have the requisite ID on them when they go to vote.

Perhaps they said 'some' wont have it, and that would be entriely correct. But to say not likely is a misnomer on their part.

My mom is legally blind, and voting is a relative hassle , but she is adamant to vote. I cannot recall if I or my brother went in the booth with her or it was someone there .

[cybercoma]

The problem is that not everyone will be aware that the rules have changed. We pay attention to these things because we're interested in politics. Not everyone else does.

[eyeball]

Will we get to have a say in the color of the dye? That blue they use gives me flashbacks to days working in the Arctic in winter.

Well it couldn't be blue because that colour would probably raise some ideological hackle or another. Ditto for red, orange or green and rainbows would certainly piss somebody off.

I suggest a blend of all the above - a splotchy sickly grey that matches the depressive pointlessness of the exercise.

Edited April 1, 2014 by eyeball

[Keepitsimple]

Headline: millions of voters across Europe are dis-enfranchised, Canadians report. Blind people, Seniors and the homeless prevented from voting by archaic laws all over Europe. Protest at United Nations planned........."No voter left behind" scream activists. The world is wrong. Canada is the shining example of voter inclusion. the global beacon for voting rights.

[Topaz]

I still think Canadians should have a plastic voter card, that has the name, address and picture of them, which can be used for ALL elections within Canada. The Provinces, Territories and Feds partner on this and the 39 pieces of ID that many voters don't have will be gone. There also could be some form of info. on the card for when elections go online and at polls stations they can be used like debit cards, with a swipe or just shown.

[On Guard for Thee]

Well it couldn't be blue because that colour would probably raise some ideological hackle or another. Ditto for red, orange or green and rainbows would certainly piss somebody off.

I suggest a blend of all the above - a splotchy sickly grey that matches the depressive pointlessness of the exercise.

Well, I see a problem there too. You could possibly vote fraudently simply by picking your nose.

[On Guard for Thee]

Latest news has it they are about to back off on vouching and the ability to call witnesses in an investigation. Don't be fooled, I suspect they already had a timeline knowing full well the resistance they would encounter, and now they will attempt to appear to concede with the hopes of sliding another one by us as they have attempted in the budget BS.

[eyeball]

Well, I see a problem there too. You could possibly vote fraudently simply by picking your nose.

Or just thumbing your nose.

I always liked that gesture where you sweep the back of your hand up your throat and fling something off the end of your chin in the direction of your intended recipient. I once watched this guy get up and jump off a balcony after some other guy who did that to him.

Edited April 2, 2014 by eyeball

[On Guard for Thee]

Well now how did that end up, I'm almost afraid to ask? And is that gesture Italian per chance (the hand gesture not the jumping)

[eyeball]

With the cops and an ambulance in attendance. Greek I think.

[ReeferMadness]

Nice try but:

General delivery: This was fixed in 2007 with the passing of the Residence of Verification bill.

Get bills emailed: Requesting one paper bill will take approximately a 5 second phone call or email to any bank or utility.

Recently moved: Update address with bank or any utility, have them send you paper statement. I had to do this to get driver's in new province. Went to bank, updated address, had printout with new address. Took about 10 min. Went and got driver's same day.

Too disorganized: That's your own fault, you're disenfranchising yourself. Even in that case, you can get a copy of an old utility (if you lost it) with a simple phone call or email.

Pay room and board: Those people still have bank accounts, debit and credit cards.

Wife can't vote: Add her to anything, get printout.

Homeless: The is the hardest one. Yet, even the homeless can use correspondence with social assistance (which does not require a fixed address) or even attestation by a soup kitchen (read the elections act).

Just for fun though, let's think about the absurdity of the homeless example. What you're implying with this argument is a homeless guy who fulfills all of the following:

- Is able to identify the current day, and realize when election day occurs

- Prioritizes voting

- Successfully voted in the last election

- Has somebody in their social circle who has it together enough to have documents themselves, and is willing to vouch for them (you know, one of those regular established and responsible people the homeless are known to associated with).

- Is too incapable of gathering the available options, yet organized enough to find this person and arrange to have them vouch for them at an appointed time

Boy I would love to meet this truly unique homeless person. The number of homeless falling into this description is probably somewhere between zero and zero.

Well you've got me there. I'm stuck on identifying an actual person rather than an imaginary one.

You would need a mechanism to substantiate it, in order to do so. As we don't have one, it's a lot like pointing out that a blind person cannot identify a sunset.

Take the argument further. If the point is ease of voting, why stop at vouching? Just put it as an anonymous poll online that anyone can access, set up like the a daily CBC poll. No need to register or anything, just log in and vote. After all, why ask for any kind of formal process to verify, that would be 'disenfranchising' somebody somewhere.

You're going to have to help me out. Are you really this obtuse or are you just trolling? I've cited lots of real world examples and your responses are basically that they can get something to identify them in a week or so. Are you suggesting that they hold up the election until the ID comes in the mail?

Of course not. You just don't give a shit about those poor homeless people.

Just like your deal leader.

[On Guard for Thee]

Well that's not a gesture I would be used to making, but in any case I will ,heretofore, be doubly sure not to bring that one into my repertoire. A middle finger to Harper during QP is as far as I'll let it go from now on.

[Topaz]

Yes, Poilievre is opening up to possible changes on vouching and he must be getting flack from his own constituents and the senate for changes. Again, have a plastic vote card would get rid of this burden. BTW, who cuts Poilievre cut hair? He looks like a skinned-head, his sides are not even, terrible looking. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pierre-poilievre-open-to-changing-controversial-election-measure-1.2594721