In Canada, old-aged poverty on the rise

[jacee]

Well it won't be the government, I'm certain of that much. I'll have to be 80 to qualify for cat-food coupons. There's going to be nothing left by the time people my age get there.

-k

Oh boo hoo. But you won't need it! You're all prepared and recession proof!

I should think it's obvious that the affluent seniors you are complaining about are NOT the ones who need government support.

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Edited February 23, 2014 by jacee

[Argus]

Well it won't be the government, I'm certain of that much. I'll have to be 80 to qualify for cat-food coupons. There's going to be nothing left by the time people my age get there.

-k

I don't think that's true. People forget that once the boomers are all dead things are going to improve rapidly, as far as services for the elderly are concerned. The services will be built up for them, and all still be there, but there'll be a lot less seniors to make use of them.

That's what I'm hoping anyway! :-P

[Argus]

Oh boo hoo. But you won't need it! You're all prepared and recession proof!

I should think it's obvious that the affluent seniors you are complaining about are NOT the ones who need government support.

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There are good times to be young, and not so good times. It was good to be coming of age in the early part of last century, not so good around 1912, though. After the war it was sweet, right up through the roaring twenties, but you better have had a secure job when the dirty thirties rolled around. The first part of the forties was good for most (unless you got killed, of course) and then it was all golden right through to the seventies. Ah, the seventies, a difficult period, the beginning of a long, up and down period with inflation, high unemployment and rapidly changing job environment. Anyone who entered the job market then had to be quick on their feet. What was working now and what was going to be working in five years were rarely the same.

That situation has continued, and deteriorated over the past twenty years. Specific industries have boomed at times, notably finance and high tech, but there's been a general lowering of compensation for employees across the board, a lowering of job security, of benefits, wages and respect as the corporate world has persuaded government (and those not directly impacted) towards its way of thinking. Part time jobs have more than doubled in the last twelve years, and that has disproportionately hit the younger age groups. Nor is that likely to back off soon, as many employers see the advantage of maintaining a work force which is 'hungry' and which can be paid less, be given fewer benefits, and be dumped easily if they complain.

This is certainly not the worst time to be coming of age, but in this case we don't see a lot of likelihood of positive improvements (vs negative) in the near future, and it's true that the boomers as a group, are largely responsible for our debt situation and for allowing the economic regulatory and taxation frameworks to be heavily influenced in favor of the corporatists and wealthy vs ordinary people.

[TimG]

Well, you might change your mind about 80 too once you actually get there.

What I am asking for is the freedom to wait as long as I want and see what it is like. But the current laws force me to try and guess what the likely future is going to be and possibly make an exit long before it is really necessary because it has to be done while I am able to do it with no assistance by anyone.

[BC_chick]

What I am asking for is the freedom to wait as long as I want and see what it is like. But the current laws force me to try and guess what the likely future is going to be and possibly make an exit long before it is really necessary because it has to be done while I am able to do it with no assistance by anyone.

Death is a scary concept at any age. People in retirement homes don't want to die any more than you and I do. I worked in one for a while, I met many of them.

I don't think we ever make peace with death unless it's inevitable in the very near future (ie terminally ill) and even then, many give it their best to avoid it.

If you really do want out just because you're too old to take care of yourself, you'd be in the minority of human beings who would feel that way.

[bush_cheney2004]

Baby boomers (born between 1946 and 1965) were not yet in high positions of private or government power when Canada's debt problems were created, when foreign investment was first vigorously pursued, and initial trade agreements were forged. Boomers did not create the social welfare state and entitlement programs in Canada.

[bush_cheney2004]

Death is a scary concept at any age.

Death is not scary...it is like the time before we ever existed. What most people fear is the circumstances of their death.

[TimG]

If you really do want out just because you're too old to take care of yourself, you'd be in the minority of human beings who would feel that way.

Maybe you are right. But that does not change the fact that I should be free to make the choice when I get there and not be forced to make a decision earlier than necessary.

[BC_chick]

Maybe you are right. But that does not change the fact that I should be free to make the choice when I get there and not be forced to make a decision earlier than necessary.

JT may be your man then.

[ironstone]

I don't recall saying all seniors are spoiled. But what of it?

Using the plight of seniors to complain about the Green Energy Act is just cheap political opportunism. "Look at my poor shivering grandma! She can't heat her home! End this law now!" Grandma's heating bills are going up regardless of where she lives. The cost of energy is going up. Do you think seniors should be exempt from the real world or something? Should seniors get their heating bills and gasoline costs permanently subsidized to 1979 levels?

Hey, look at my sad kitty! See how sad my kitty is? My kitty is sad because high taxes give me less money to buy kitty-treats. I need lower taxes so that my kitty will be less sad! Why won't the politicians think of my poor kitty?

-k

Hey Kimmy,do you think every penny of those high taxes are well spent?I believe there is an enormous amount of wasteful spending at all levels of government.

I do think there are some groups that should suck it up,and at the top of my list are all the Public Service unions who keep demanding more and more.Let's end the free ride for unions and other worthless special interest groups shall we?

[kimmy]

Hey Kimmy,do you think every penny of those high taxes are well spent?I believe there is an enormous amount of wasteful spending at all levels of government.

I do think there are some groups that should suck it up,and at the top of my list are all the Public Service unions who keep demanding more and more.Let's end the free ride for unions and other worthless special interest groups shall we?

I have no doubt that there has been government waste. But so what? What's your point? How does that relate to the question under discussion?

"There was government waste, so seniors should be given more money"? Is that the argument? If that's the case your presenting, its ridiculous. I mean, how does that make any sense? "The sky was cloudy today, so we need pizza!"

As for the public service unions and government employees... I am fairly sure that during my lifetime the size of the public sector to the population as a whole has been reduced significantly. When I was a kid, the news was constantly full of fights about laying off government workers and reducing the size of the public sector through attrition and eliminating government jobs by privatizing a wide variety of government services. At all levels of government. I think that the public sector in this country has been reduced substantially.

And I bet that a lot of the boomers and seniors who are now trying to shake down the public trough for more money are the same people who worked their whole lives in the cushy government jobs that you're complaining about.

-k

[kimmy]

Oh boo hoo. But you won't need it! You're all prepared and recession proof!

Not yet, but I'm certainly trying my hardest. Because I don't see any other choice. I'd have to be a colossal idiot to trust that old age security and CPP will be there to take care of me in 40 years. Whatever else you might think of me, I assure you I'm not an idiot.

I should think it's obvious that the affluent seniors you are complaining about are NOT the ones who need government support.

And as I already said in this thread, I am in favor of taking care of people who need taking care of.

What I am definitely not in favor of is some new Grand Plan to create a new standard of comfort and public support for all seniors.

And on the subject of who actually needs taking care of, I remind you of what I posted earlier: the poverty rate for Canadian seniors is HALF the poverty rate for the general population.

The poverty rate for Canadian seniors is 5.9% and the poverty rate for Canadian children is 14.3%.

-k

[Michael Hardner]

And on the subject of who actually needs taking care of, I remind you of what I posted earlier: the poverty rate for Canadian seniors is HALF the poverty rate for the general population.

The poverty rate for Canadian seniors is 5.9% and the poverty rate for Canadian children is 14.3%.

-k

Yes, as I pointed out below. The child poverty rate and the stagnation of wage growth for the lower and middle classes should be more of a concern.

[eyeball]

And I bet that a lot of the boomers and seniors who are now trying to shake down the public trough for more money are the same people who worked their whole lives in the cushy government jobs that you're complaining about.

-k

There are also a bunch of us that are trying to survive in the turmoil and back wash of an economy that so many governments helped to fuck up beyond all recognition.

I hear what you're saying but I'm also going to be amongst the last of the boomers to die off and I fear for the day when my age associates me with the grand inter-generational larceny that's transpired. I'm not looking forward to the anger and resentment that seems to be building around this however justified it is. I apologize for not being able to do more to make our economy and governance more accountable, honest and less venal - you are perfectly right to feel the way you do but if your generation does not make a better job of getting your governance under control, you'll be in the same place soon enough. I wish I could do more.