On Guard for Thee Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 It's moments like these that I thank God Harper is PM and not Justin. That would be painstakingly embarrassing. Harper did a pretty good job of embarrasing himself today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) Claims that blaming Israel for something is akin to anti semitism is idiotic. Blaming the USA for the Iraq war must be racism too.... lol The Harper doctrine: You're all anti-Semiteshttp://www.torontosun.com/2014/01/20/stephen-harper-argues-criticizing-israel-is-anti-semitic Prime Minister Stephen Harper rolled out a new definition of anti-Semitism — name-calling that will be controversial at home and on the global diplomatic circuit but which will make him into a mega-star in Israel. -------------------------------------------- Basically, in Harper's formulation, you're an anti-Semite if you criticize Israel. Edited January 21, 2014 by The_Squid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 What’s more, the Canadian media is making hay over the Prime Minister being heckled by several Arab-Israeli Knesset members…….Ironically, Israel is the only place in the Middle East that legitimately elects Arabs…..and allows them the right to heckle without fear of reprisal. Man that has got to be so wrong! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 I agree with you Derek. I don't think Harper gives a flying phack how many votes he does or does not get for being pro Israel. I think at most it may reflect his own personal Christian view. Keerect on the first bit. He doesn't care. His middle East policy has been a refreshing, independent change from the 'let's not offend anybody' of previous administrations. His action regarding Iran is part of that, he correctly sees them as a strong and destabilizing villain in Palestinian(and in Syria, Lebanon and Iraq) affairs. He puts paid to the ridiculous, persistent notion that Canada is in any way a neutral country. We never have been neutral and we do have a foreign policy and many treaties that reflect that reality. We have contributed to peacekeeping tasks, but we are also willing to go to war. That ain't neutral. Wrong on the second bit. It is not only his professional view as PM, but a private view gained through his family values and appraisal of history. Being a Christian has nothing to do with supporting Israel, or Palestine for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) Well, now that Harper has clearly defined what it is that constitutes an anti Semite I'm proud to say I'm one. I guess it also goes without saying I'm an enemy of the state. Yep, Israel's government should be wiped off the map and our's too just for good measure. Enemy of the state....I like how that rolls of the tongue. Edited January 21, 2014 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Stephen Harper, and those with him, actually aren’t pro-Israel. They are pro-Likud Party. They, like Likud, are conservative, bellicose, and insular. Likud isn’t Israel. Israel — multicultural, diverse, progressive, modern and secular Israel — is much more than that. And the sooner Harper and his factionalists accept that, the better off Canada will be. Israel, too. http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/straighttalk/archives/2014/01/20140121-071812.html Kinsella makes an excellent point about Harper.... This is not a good policy position for Canada. Canada should not oppose peace based on hardcore right-wing ideology or theology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Keerect on the first bit. He doesn't care. His middle East policy has been a refreshing, independent change from the 'let's not offend anybody' of previous administrations. His action regarding Iran is part of that, he correctly sees them as a strong and destabilizing villain in Palestinian(and in Syria, Lebanon and Iraq) affairs. He puts paid to the ridiculous, persistent notion that Canada is in any way a neutral country. We never have been neutral and we do have a foreign policy and many treaties that reflect that reality. We have contributed to peacekeeping tasks, but we are also willing to go to war. That ain't neutral. Wrong on the second bit. It is not only his professional view as PM, but a private view gained through his family values and appraisal of history. Being a Christian has nothing to do with supporting Israel, or Palestine for that matter. Well stated. I personally agree. I can understand why some MIGHT speculate it also ties in with his own personal religious beliefs. I actually don't think his religious beliefs are flavouring his professional view. Personally I believe as you say. I think he really is doing what he believes and its not flavoured by anything religious or motivated to get Jewish votes or Christian Zionist votes. I actually strongly agree with you. I find it hard to dislike Harper. I may not like some of the financial policies and coruption I blame him for but as an individual I think this is a man of integrity. I also genuinely think he supports a Palestinian state and the attempts to depict him as anti Palestinian are dead wrong. I would also like to repeat the following point. I think it is a ridiculous stereotype to suggest Jews blindly support Israel and reason Harper does what he does is to get th Jewish vote. This buys into the ancient stereotype that all we Jews think the same and act the same and are blinded by a support for Israel. I find such stereotypes anti-semitic and derogatory. They suggest we are a bunch of drones who don't give a damn about Canada. I challenge that stereotype. I am a proud Canadian and put Canada first. The fact I am a jew and support Israel's right to be a Jewish state does not mean I put Canada second, hate Palestinians, am against a Palestinian state or would not vote for a politician critical of Israel. Jews regularly voted for Pierre Trudeau and I was present at least three speeches he made in synagogues where he criticized certain Israeli state policies and we respected him for it. We did the same with Mulroney and with Joe Clark who ironically was also treated the same way Harper is now. I think any of these discussions that lower themselves to using what Harper has stated as a pretext to stereotype Canadian Jews as sheep and drones of Israel is b.s. We understand and respect our leaders and the fact they support a two nation solution as do we. We do not expect any politician to patronize us. Harper is a lot of things but he does not patronize or step and fetch to me or any other Jewish Canadian and it is precisely because he is not afraid to talk out against terrorism he is in the strongest position of anyone to push Netanyahu on certain issues. He has earned a genuine gut respect as did Colin Powell, Bill Clinton, Joe Biden, the Kennedies, Martin Luther King, Trudeau, Pearson, Mulroney, Diefenbaker. They all had the respect of Israel because they were not afraid to say what was on their mind and criticize pro and con. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) I think this pandering is due to a combination of religious ideology of the hardcore base of the party and the 350,000 Jewish voters who are in key ridings, which mostly used to vote Liberal. With the resurgence of the Liberal party, the Jewish votes Harper had gained in the previous elections could be in jeopardy. You want to talk pandering, lets look at trudeau. He is pandering the muslim vote because there is over a million, but the only ones that will support him are the extreme element in this country. The most live in 12 ridings and 10 of those are solid liberal ridings. So hudson, you are not even close. I for one am proud to have harper as our PM. Edited January 21, 2014 by PIK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudson Jones Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Thread hijacking...off topic. No it's not. We're talking about Canada's policy and Harper's misrepresentation of what Canada stands for. Canada's policy should be to object to any country's policy that allows torture. Especially when it's torture of children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 No it's not. We're talking about Canada's policy and Harper's misrepresentation of what Canada stands for. Canada's policy should be to object to any country's policy that allows torture. Especially when it's torture of children. Yes very true! Harper is actually breaking Canadian law by approving/supporting a known group that conducts acts of terror! Harper should be charged and given an opportunity to defend his actions in court! WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Canada No it's not. We're talking about Canada's policy and Harper's misrepresentation of what Canada stands for. Canada's policy should be to object to any country's policy that allows torture. Especially when it's torture of children. Off topic....this thread is not about torture. If you want to discuss torture, start your own thread. Maybe include PM Chretien and Maher Arar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWWTT Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Well, when you have a vise presidential candidate that thinks that a reality tv show character had their freedom of speech taken away, this is more of what you get! I find it kind of disturbing/creepy that Palin is getting too close to Canada. I prefer to watch the freek show circus(US politics) from a distance thank you! http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/01/21/sarah-palin-says-media-should-focus-more-on-stephen-harper-praiseworthy-trip-to-israel-less-on-nfls-richard-sherman-rant/ WWWTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 The opposition parties don't have to TRY to get the Muslim vote because Harper is doing a great job turning any Muslims that did support him to the other parties.The more Harper verbal supports Israel the more he turns an Muslims against the Tories and there could be other Canadians that feel that as well. In A Israel newspaper, its reported that Harper got up on stage and did some more singing..."Hey Jude". http://www.jpost.com/Features/In-Thespotlight/Harper-serenades-Netanyahu-at-state-dinner-338994 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepitsimple Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) We've mostly gotten only snippets or selected quotes of his speech. Here's the entire speech. The so-called "nuanced, balanced" approach has accomplished nothing for over 50 years - as it would in a corporate or personal setting. If you don't intelligently lay out your principles and expectations, the other side simply reacts the way that suits them best. Say what you mean - mean waht you say. It's 25 minutes long but worth the investment. http://ca.video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=A0geu8Io.t9SGgYAnw7rFAx.;_ylu=X3oDMTB2ODFidjJiBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA01TWUNBMDFfNzQ-?p=harper+speech+to+knesset Edited January 22, 2014 by Keepitsimple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Notice how the reporters kept trying to get him to critize Israel, but would not ask any real important questions, just imagine if trudeau was PM and went over there, a nobel prize would be coming his way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) Rue said: I would also like to repeat the following point. I think it is a ridiculous stereotype to suggest Jews blindly support Israel and reason Harper does what he does is to get the Jewish vote. This buys into the ancient stereotype that all we Jews think the same and act the same and are blinded by a support for Israel. I find such stereotypes anti-semitic and derogatory. They suggest we are a bunch of drones who don't give a damn about Canada. I challenge that stereotype. I am a proud Canadian and put Canada first. I respect your position, rue, but you might be just a bit politically naive. I'm not assuming all Jews are "drones" who vote alike, but I do know that Harper would like that, especially the ones in ridings he could thus steal from Trudeau, and any who might be or become Conservative political contributors. That's just politics! /pm's-historic-israel-trip-also-aimed-at-conservative-partisan-interests-in-canada-pollsters-say Harpers unprecedented and spectacular visit to Israel with an accompanying party dominated by nearly 200 leading members of Canadian Jewish communities and pro-Israel fundraising and lobbying groups is aimed as well at Conservative partisan interests in Canada, leading pollsters say.Ekos pollster Frank Graves said Tuesday he believes the trip is all about fundraisingwith the entourage including Conservative Senator Irving Gerstein, who heads the partys fundraising armwhile Nanos Research pollster Nik Nanos told The Hill Times the Israel jaunt and the governments wider all-out support for Israel is its most high-profile target yet of a specific community of voters in Canada. ... The Harper government has been very systematic in its approach with different segments of the electorate, Mr. Nano said. "Realistically, it has been part of the winning coalition strategyto identify and signal to pockets of voters from different cultural backgrounds, this has manifested itself on a range of issues, many trade-related, like freer trade with India or with Asian Pacific countries, he said. The Harper governments policy towards Israel is likely its highest profile signal to a specific community in Canada, Mr. Nanos said. And what I want to know is this: HOW MUCH IS THIS CONSERVATIVE POLITICAL FUNDRAISING JUNKET COSTING US TAXPAYERS?!?!? . Edited January 22, 2014 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepitsimple Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 That's why I asked....the "states" often hear this suggestion (usually as criticism) in the face of strong support for Israel. Why does PM Harper want a piece of the action ? What is the political strategy at play here ? That's why I asked....the "states" often hear this suggestion (usually as criticism) in the face of strong support for Israel. Why does PM Harper want a piece of the action ? What is the political strategy at play here ? Partisans tend to overthink things. Harper is simply a very principled person - he says what he means and he means what he says. There are about 350,000 Canadians who identify themselves in some manner as Jewish. There are over 400,000 Arabs and a further 125,000 from Iran. The usual political approach is "nuanced and balanced" so you don't offend anyone. Harper simply believes in what is right.....he's been very consistent on this since before he became Prime Minister. Listen to his speech to the Knesset and you'll hear exactly where he stands - and why he stands there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Partisans tend to overthink things. Harper is simply a very principled person ...Harper is about as partisan as they get. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Like Harper's stand on accountability and transparency. Harper is also just as unprincipled as they get and even more shameless about it. The successive trend of politicians to continue thusly is our own fault. This is what we get for allowing our politicians to hob-knob with too many dictators and other really crappy governments and just one more aspect of our participation in a global race to the bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 ... This is what we get for allowing our politicians to hob-knob with too many dictators and other really crappy governments and just one more aspect of our participation in a global race to the bottom. Meh...the "race to the top" wasn't any picnic either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guyser Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 , just imagine if trudeau was PM and went over there, a nobel prize would be coming his way.Still scared huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 No it's not. We're talking about Canada's policy and Harper's misrepresentation of what Canada stands for. Canada's policy should be to object to any country's policy that allows torture. Especially when it's torture of childrin In all the ME there is 1.6 million arabs that have freedom of religion and sexual preference, and guess what they all love in Israel. Hudson you are actually backing the side of dictators and plain evil people. The thing you don't get is ,if Israel disappeared over nite their arab neighbours would be moving in, there will be no palistine country. Time to take off the blinders of hate and get with the facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Still scared huh? Scared for my country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Governor Sarah Palin has some positive strokes for her good neighbours: Former Alaska governor and vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin is heaping praise on Prime Minister Stephen Harper for his "exemplary" support of Israel and scolding the media for not paying more attention. Palin, whose public comments on various issues often attract attention, wrote a message on her Facebook page that linked to an article on the website of Breaking Christian News about Harper's visit to Israel and his support for the country since he became prime minister in 2006. "Thank you to our good neighbours led by Prime Minister Stephen Harper for their exemplary support of our friend Israel," she wrote. "As significant and dangerous progress is made by Iran no doubt wanting nukes, and with the continued threats against Israel by radicals in the region, Canada's steadfastness is praiseworthy." http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/sarah-palin-is-a-fan-of-stephen-harper-s-israel-support-1.2506301 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudson Jones Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Canada Off topic....this thread is not about torture. If you want to discuss torture, start your own thread. Maybe include PM Chretien and Maher Arar. It's not off topic. We're talking about policies. This is an inconvenient truth that torturing of children is an Israeli policy that Harper, as the Canadian leader, has failed to condemn. Harper has failed as the leader of Canada to speak out against numerous reports showing the torture of children by Israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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