US Government Shutdown Mega-Thread

[Argus]

Far be it from me to defend Shady, but the profit margins of most insurance companies are less than 5%. Yeah, they're making millions, so imagine the disgusting amount of revenues they're making. Nevertheless, their expenses are nearly as high. Excellent businesses run anywhere between 15-30%.

If you'd care to examine the stock price rise for Humana, United Health Group, Aetna, or some of the other big names in insurance over the past five years I think you'll find the Market thinks they're doing very well indeed.

[bleeding heart]

Far be it from me to defend Shady, but the profit margins of most insurance companies are less than 5%. Yeah, they're making millions, so imagine the disgusting amount of revenues they're making. Nevertheless, their expenses are nearly as high. Excellent businesses run anywhere between 15-30%.

I disagree. Excellent businesses are about profit, not profit margins.

The insurance industry has, designed as its actual business model, thin margins, But because of volume, the profits are extremely high indeed.

Credit services work on the same principle, as do, generally, banks.

[bud]

meanwhile, welfare cheques totaling $5.5 billion, to israel which gets most of the amount ($3.1 billion), saudi. egypt and over 75 other countries continue to flow without any question from either side or the media. of course, in time, that will change as well. i'm sure if it gets to that and as soon as israel stops receiving its money from the u.s. taxpayers, the heavily influenced congress will be instructed by AIPAC to work out a deal.

[cybercoma]

If you'd care to examine the stock price rise for Humana, United Health Group, Aetna, or some of the other big names in insurance over the past five years I think you'll find the Market thinks they're doing very well indeed.

I didn't say they weren't doing well. They're certainly doing well. Shady's exact words are correct though. Insurance companies work on smaller margins than companies like Google, Apple, or Microsoft for example. I can't remember the exact number, but the average margin for insurance is in the neighbourhood of 3%, while the others (again iirc) are between 20 and 30%.

[Wilber]

I disagree. Excellent businesses are about profit, not profit margins.

The insurance industry has, designed as its actual business model, thin margins, But because of volume, the profits are extremely high indeed.

Credit services work on the same principle, as do, generally, banks.

Not quite that simple, margins do count with financials. A big reason people invest in them is dividends and they can't pay them if margins are not high enough. It is not unusual to see a share price drop after a billion + quarterly profit has been reported. People expect a return on their investment.

[bleeding heart]

Not quite that simple, margins do count with financials. A big reason people invest in them is dividends and they can't pay them if margins are not high enough. It is not unusual to see a share price drop after a billion + quarterly profit has been reported. People expect a return on their investment.

Fair enough, I stand corrected.

[cybercoma]

So the Republican talking point is that the Democrats refused to negotiate. Why then did the Republicans block negotiations 19 times before the shutdown?

[Argus]

The Republican's talking point is they've already compromised by being willing to simply accept a delay instead of completely eliminating obamacare.

Of course, the delay will be indefinite, since they'll certainly refuse to fund it next time around too.

But that's called compromise, apparently, if you're a Republican.

[cybercoma]

This is how unbelievably stupid some of the Republicans are.

1. Rep. Ted Yoho (R-Fla.): “I think, personally, [not raising the debt ceiling] would bring stability to the world markets.”
2. Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah): "I think the administration could work on who gets paid and who doesn't in a way that would pull us through. I don't think the markets have been spooked so far, and I personally believe that if they realized there was a legitimate attempt to make the government work, they would be less likely [to be spooked]."
3. Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.): "The federal government still has about 85 percent of the revenues we spend coming in, and all they have to do is prioritize that they're gonna pay debt service first. And that leaves some prioritization for federal programs. I'm not as concerned as the president is on the debt ceiling, because the only people buying our bonds right now is the Federal Reserve. So it's like scaring ourselves."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/08/its-terrifying-what-some-top-republicans-believe-about-the-debt-ceiling/

[dre]

This is how unbelievably stupid some of the Republicans are.

1. Rep. Ted Yoho (R-Fla.): “I think, personally, [not raising the debt ceiling] would bring stability to the world markets.”
2. Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah): "I think the administration could work on who gets paid and who doesn't in a way that would pull us through. I don't think the markets have been spooked so far, and I personally believe that if they realized there was a legitimate attempt to make the government work, they would be less likely [to be spooked]."
3. Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.): "The federal government still has about 85 percent of the revenues we spend coming in, and all they have to do is prioritize that they're gonna pay debt service first. And that leaves some prioritization for federal programs. I'm not as concerned as the president is on the debt ceiling, because the only people buying our bonds right now is the Federal Reserve. So it's like scaring ourselves."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/08/its-terrifying-what-some-top-republicans-believe-about-the-debt-ceiling/

Im actually somewhat sypathetic to some of these views even though they come from members of the party of stupid. The problem is they only bring this stuff up when theres a democratic administration. I dont remember government shutdowns when Bush was spending trillions on blowing up random darkies. But when Obama tries to spend money on healthcare for Americans suddenly we need a "pay as you go" system.

[cybercoma]

Blowing up the A-rabs brings about the Rapture, so it's all good. Caring for the sick was Jesus's work, so he'll never come back if we're caring for each other.

[kimmy]

So the argument appears to be that the shutdown is actually good because it shows just how little of what the government does actually matters to people. Except when the shutdown keeps old-people from going to national parks or veterans from going to memorials or schoolkids from going to the White House, in which case the shutdown is worse than terrible, it's UnAmerican.

Meanwhile the food inspectors and nuclear power safety inspectors are furloughed but that doesn't matter because it's been a whole week and there hasn't been a nuclear meltdown or a listeria outbreak yet.

-k

[kimmy]

And the shutdown comes to an end.

Speaker Boehner breaks the "Hastert Rule", which doesn't actually exist, and puts the Senate bill to the vote in the House of Representatives.

And the bill passes 285-144, with 87 Republicans voting in favor.

Members of the Tea Party wing of the Republicans will no doubt be declaring Boehner a traitor and be calling for his head. Others will probably feel that he has done the right thing, albeit belatedly.

-k

[kimmy]

And not surprisingly, less than an hour after the shutdown ends, the Tea Party mouthpieces are already howling that their hero Ted Cruz was sabotaged by "the establishment".

-k

[bush_cheney2004]

And the shutdown comes to an end.

Yawn....it was so exciting and climactic ! Just like last time.....and the time before that...and the time before that. The "free world" can breathe a collective sigh of relief.

[eyeball]

Hasn't it only been two times now? In any case just how big does a debt have to get before it deters lenders? I know I'm a little astounded at the spectacle of people flocking to the safety of the American dollar whenever markets get rattled by some silly little drama.

[Guest American Woman]

Hasn't it only been two times now?

This was the 17th shutdown.

Here is every previous government shutdown, why they happened and how they ended

[bush_cheney2004]

This was the 17th shutdown.

Here is every previous government shutdown, why they happened and how they ended

Excellent post...and a wonderful trip down Memory Lane. I particularly liked Shutdown #8...for no particular reason at all....just a tardy Congress.

[Guest American Woman]

Excellent post...and a wonderful trip down Memory Lane. I particularly liked Shutdown #8...for no particular reason at all....just a tardy Congress.

Yep. Gotta love shutdown #8.

And I see I mis-posted - I meant to say there were 17 previous shutdowns - this was the 18th. And life goes on ............

[Wilber]

Yep. Gotta love shutdown #8.

And I see I mis-posted - I meant to say there were 17 previous shutdowns - this was the 18th. And life goes on ............

Yup, the can gets another dent in it as it's kicked down the road one more time and the problem never does get addressed.

[eyeball]

BC did say "Just like last time" meaning two shutdowns now that involved defaulting. It doesn't look like the other shutdowns in the past came anywhere near as close to having the same potential consequences as the last two. There's certainly nothing that compares to having a faction in government deliberately trying to drive the country into the ditch.

[bush_cheney2004]

BC did say "Just like last time" meaning two shutdowns now that involved defaulting....

No..."BC" didn't wish to type "just like the last time"....15 additional times. Besides, there would not have been an immediate "default", as Treasury would just deny federal payments to service the debt as a priority. I thought people learned this game "just like last time".

[eyeball]

So the last two shutdowns were just as inconsequential as the rest?

If you say so.

[August1991]

And the shutdown comes to an end.

Speaker Boehner breaks the "Hastert Rule", which doesn't actually exist, and puts the Senate bill to the vote in the House of Representatives.

And the bill passes 285-144, with 87 Republicans voting in favor.

Members of the Tea Party wing of the Republicans will no doubt be declaring Boehner a traitor and be calling for his head. Others will probably feel that he has done the right thing, albeit belatedly.

-k

Well, I wuz wrong.

I thought that the Republicans would follow the Tea Party and push the envelope to the point where Obama would have to declare (Nixon-like) that if the President wants to borrow, the President can. Instead, the Republican Party folded like a cheap suit.

And believe me, we're in "push the envelope" territory. For example, how much can the US federal government borrow? 200% of GDP? Can the US federal government become a Ponzi scheme? (IOW, as long as Americans pay tax and foreigners buy Treasuries, its government can give money to new lenders. Uh, how long can that scam last?)

Well, here's a different envelope to push: America cannot afford both State-organized health care and its current military. (Guns or butter.) So, what happens to the world when Obama's America chooses health care (butter) over defence (guns).

=====

Norway is a rich country, and Norwegians live well. They benefit from membership in NATO but they avoid the costs of EU membership.

US Democrats (Obama, Pelosi, Krugman) seem to want to turn America into another Norway. But if they succeed, what will happen in the rest of the world? And what will happen to Americans?

Edited October 18, 2013 by August1991

[eyeball]

Much of it would probably breath a huge sigh of relief.