Anti-Christian Bigotry?

[kimmy]

One of our esteemed colleagues here at MLW has posted in his profile feed demanding that:

The moderators need to start holding the anti-Christian bigots of the forum accountable.

Perhaps we should talk more about that.

I'd like to propose that it's not "anti-Christian bigotry" to criticize ignorant or stupid people, even if those people happen to be Christian.

I'd like to propose that it's not "anti-Christian bigotry" to criticize ignorant or stupid policies, even if those policies happen to be favored by some Christians.

I'd like to propose that it's not "anti-Christian bigotry" to criticize extreme conservatism, even if some Christians support extreme conservatism.

-k

[The_Squid]

It's not ant-Christian bigotry to question or criticize Christianity in general whether it be extreme or moderate.

That's what the forum is for. Discussion.... Debate... Criticisms....

If the esteemed member thinks other religions don't receive their fair share of criticism/debate, why doesn't he/she simply start a thread to do exactly that, rather than simply whine about some perceived injustice done to the poor Christians?

[cybercoma]

I happen to have an anti-KKK "bias" too because they like to oppress and discriminate against people. And I don't see anything wrong with that.

[Michael Hardner]

The difference is that the KKK has a mandate (Uh... I assume) that advocates superiority of one race. So you can point at that and say you agree or don't agree.

People for some reason seem to think that religions have a prime directive to cause harm, even though there is no such prime directive dictated in holy books, and certainly not by church leaders, where a particular religion has a hierarchy/administration.

Like the (very dumb) Muslim=terrorist issue, people tend to look at wrong-doers and decide that whatever they don't like about that wrong-doer is the cause of their wrongdoing.

That being said, I think that the religions tend to get batted around on here roughly equally and that the rules come into play on this topic as per normal when people get stupid about things.

[Bonam]

The difference is that the KKK has a mandate (Uh... I assume) that advocates superiority of one race. So you can point at that and say you agree or don't agree.

Just as one can point at the foolish belief in non-existent entities (or other things that religions teach or stand for) and say you agree or don't agree.

[Michael Hardner]

Just as one can point at the foolish belief in non-existent entities (or other things that religions teach or stand for) and say you agree or don't agree.

Yes, that in itself is a position that can be debated - no doubt.

[BubberMiley]

The status update page is for stating ideas that you don't want other people commenting on. That's why there's the often-used lock feature on it too. It's kind of a dirty trick to start a thread on such a subject, because then you're expected to actually explain what you meant, and sometimes you just don't want to do that because you know it's stupid.

[Moonlight Graham]

People for some reason seem to think that religions have a prime directive to cause harm, even though there is no such prime directive dictated in holy books, and certainly not by church leaders, where a particular religion has a hierarchy/administration.

Maybe religions and leaders don't set out with a goal to cause harm sometimes, but they often do cause harm as a result of their beliefs/rules etc.

[Michael Hardner]

Maybe religions and leaders don't set out with a goal to cause harm sometimes, but they often do cause harm as a result of their beliefs/rules etc.

All progress has victims, I would say. If you only count the ones who benefited from the status quo, you'd still have a few victims about.

[Mighty AC]

Maybe religions and leaders don't set out with a goal to cause harm sometimes, but they often do cause harm as a result of their beliefs/rules etc.

Rules and beliefs that could easily be altered or ignored IF people did not believe them to be divine.

[Michael Hardner]

Christian rules and beliefs actually change quite a bit.

[Mighty AC]

They do, which suggests they are man made and not divine, but not nearly as quickly as if we did not pretend they were ordered by a god.

[Michael Hardner]

I think the rules can change in the blink of an eye - if the Pope says so. Unlike the Constitution of Canada.

[sharkman]

Yeah, they change every week, or at least every month. Crazy, eh?

[kimmy]

The status update page is for stating ideas that you don't want other people commenting on. That's why there's the often-used lock feature on it too. It's kind of a dirty trick to start a thread on such a subject, because then you're expected to actually explain what you meant, and sometimes you just don't want to do that because you know it's stupid.

I sure hope you're wrong, Bubber. I'm just trying to facilitate a discussion, and if some of our friends here at MLW have some issues they need to get off their chests, then I'm here to listen. Because I care.

-k

[kimmy]

People for some reason seem to think that religions have a prime directive to cause harm, even though there is no such prime directive dictated in holy books, and certainly not by church leaders, where a particular religion has a hierarchy/administration.

There are cases where the harm being caused is part and parcel of the teachings. That's not exclusive to Christianity, obviously.

An example: religious sects that forbid modern medicine on religious grounds. There have been numerous recent cases in the news where children died needlessly of easily treatable ailments, because their parents were members of sects that forbid medical intervention for religious reasons. You can't separate the harm from the belief in that instance.

Or how about the anti-vaccine movement?

I consider Jenny McCarthy to be an idiot, a menace, and a clear danger to the health of children because of the anti-vaccination propaganda she is spreading. She's not spreading it on religious grounds. She's spreading it because she read a bunch of junk-science.

Would those views become more respectable if they came out of somebody's interpretation of a holy-book instead of from www.naturalmedicine.com?

I don't believe so. Jenny McCarthy says her views are based on some "research" she did. Anti-vaccination pastors views are based on the religious premise that only people who don't trust God would get vaccinations. And recently there have been outbreaks of diseases at some US mega-churches. Jenny McCarty read some crappy websites, Pastor Copeland read some scripture, they both convinced people to not get vaccinated. Is there a good reason to respect Pastor Copeland's views on vaccination more than Jenny McCarthy's? I don't think so.

-k

[dre]

That being said, I think that the religions tend to get batted around on here roughly equally and that the rules come into play on this topic as per normal when people get stupid about things.

Its also worth mentioning that the kind of things religious people cry "bigotry" over are generally people either arguing against, or mocking their beliefs. Sometimes its unfair or mean spirited or even down right rude..

But contrast that with the kind of wrath that abrahamites and their leaders have unleashed on those that dare to oppose them, both in the past and in much of the world today.

Us non-believers might be dicks to religious folks sometimes, and Im certainly guilty of it, and we oughtta not do it! But in general we arent going to label them heretics or blasphemers, and kill them or condemn them to an eternity of torture and misery for not believing in biology or evolution or for daring to challenge the edicts of our leaders.

Just saying... That perhaps organizations that have been so comfortable with pushing their beliefs and values on others, and so sure of themselves, should maybe have a little thicker of a skin.

[sharkman]

There are cases where the harm being caused is part and parcel of the teachings. That's not exclusive to Christianity, obviously.

An example: religious sects that forbid modern medicine on religious grounds. There have been numerous recent cases in the news where children died needlessly of easily treatable ailments, because their parents were members of sects that forbid medical intervention for religious reasons. You can't separate the harm from the belief in that instance.

Or how about the anti-vaccine movement?

I consider Jenny McCarthy to be an idiot, a menace, and a clear danger to the health of children because of the anti-vaccination propaganda she is spreading. She's not spreading it on religious grounds. She's spreading it because she read a bunch of junk-science.

Would those views become more respectable if they came out of somebody's interpretation of a holy-book instead of from www.naturalmedicine.com?

I don't believe so. Jenny McCarthy says her views are based on some "research" she did. Anti-vaccination pastors views are based on the religious premise that only people who don't trust God would get vaccinations. And recently there have been outbreaks of diseases at some US mega-churches. Jenny McCarty read some crappy websites, Pastor Copeland read some scripture, they both convinced people to not get vaccinated. Is there a good reason to respect Pastor Copeland's views on vaccination more than Jenny McCarthy's? I don't think so.

-k

Yeah, there are moon bats in christianity. There are in every religion. Some people like to point out only the ones in the christian faith for some reason. Hey, whatever floats your boat I guess.

There are also moon bats in the environmentalist movement. Moon bats teaching that fluoride is evil, moonbats teaching that the government is out to get them, moon bats teaching that wifi will kill you. Then there are the moon bats in the medical community wanting you to sleep on magnetic mattresses, pass electricity through your blood and a hundred other cures to take your money. The giant corporations that release a medicine that years later they find drastically harms people, and so on, and so on, and so on. Do these items not harm innocent people?

More moon bats: Groups that believe and teach that Jews are evil. Groups that teach that Blacks, Whites or Yellows are evil. People that believe they were abducted by aliens. A big business has sprung up over that and the belief that aliens are zooming around. Groups in Africa that teach condoms are a White plot to keep the black population down, and if you get aids, having sex with a red head will cure you. Unfortunately there are a lot of superstitious beliefs in Africa which harm and hurt people. All of these are not religious based.

Edited September 12, 2013 by sharkman

[sharkman]

Its also worth mentioning that the kind of things religious people cry "bigotry" over are generally people either arguing against, or mocking their beliefs. Sometimes its unfair or mean spirited or even down right rude..

So just what do you believe mocking one's belief's is? Good sport?

[sharkman]

And here's something for you selective-outrage people to read and then shrug your shoulders at because it's not a christian wing nut:

India’s leading Islamic seminary Darul Uloom has issued a fatwa, saying “photography is unlawful and a sin”, even though Saudi Arabia allows photographers inside the holy city of Mecca and live telecast of namaz is beamed on Islamic channels across the world.

Mufti Abdul Qasim Nomani, Mohtamim (Vice-Chancellor) of Darul Uloom Deoband, told PTI on phone, “Photography is un-Islamic. Muslims are not allowed to get their photos clicked unless it is for an identity card or for making a passport.” He said Islam does not permit video-taping of marriages or clicking of pictures to save as mementos for future generations.

And a report about some good people, lest you think I'm only a downer Dave:

Europe's first clinic dedicated to treating women who have suffered female genital mutilation opened on Wednesday in Berlin. The Desert Flower Centre will offer both surgical and psychological care for those who have had the procedure

Also referred to as female genital mutilation (FGM), the World Health Organisation (WHO), states that the ritual procedure is carried out every 11

seconds, to varying degrees. These include cutting off a woman's clitoris, sewing together her vagina, or even sewing together the entire genital region.

Most common in parts of Africa, the WHO estimates that around 140 million girls and women have been subjugated to FGM. Around 50,000 of them live in Germany.

Edited September 12, 2013 by sharkman

[Mighty AC]

So just what do you believe mocking one's belief's is? Good sport?

I don't see a difference between criticizing faith, political leanings, environmental views, taste in movies, music, sports, etc. All ideas should be discussed; the good ones are elevated the bad trounced and discarded.

[Black Dog]

I don't see a difference between criticizing faith, political leanings, environmental views, taste in movies, music, sports, etc. All ideas should be discussed; the good ones are elevated the bad trounced and discarded.

No but you see if you are going to talk smack about one, you have to make a show of doing it for all the others. Kind of like bringing a snack to kindergarten class: make sure you have enough for everyone.

[Black Dog]

And here's something for you selective-outrage people to read and then shrug your shoulders at because it's not a christian wing nut:

Wanna know the difference between Christian whacko threads and topics like these? No one defends this kind of stuff so what is there to discuss?

Edited September 12, 2013 by Black Dog

[Mighty AC]

No but you see if you are going to talk smack about one, you have to make a show of doing it for all the others. Kind of like bringing a snack to kindergarten class: make sure you have enough for everyone.

Wanna know the difference between Christian whacko threads and topics like these? No one defends this kind of stuff so what is there to discuss?

Exactly. Most people here are already atheist with respect to every other god but their own. Some of us just happen to believe in 1 fewer magic being than others. There is no point in discussing the lack of evidence for Thor, Zeus, Allah, Odin, Jupiter, etc. Christians can already see it. However, they are proud of their own belief without evidence and label it faith.

[Bonam]

So just what do you believe mocking one's belief's is? Good sport?

Yes. There is no innate right to be free of mocking or offense.