Trayvon Martin - The other side of Hypocricy

[Black Dog]

Liberal democrats have kept them trapped in failing schools for decades. Their failing liberal social policies have utterly destroyed the black nuclear family. And they have the nerve to bring up the plight of the black community? How ridiculous is that?

Example please.

[Black Dog]

I don't believe it is discussed to the extent (if much at all) as it should be.

And you are basing this on what, exactly? Your intimate experience as a member of said community?

White people can't solve it, the minute they start talking about it, it's racist.

Yeah, poor whitey can't do anything right, whether its good-naturedly commenting on black on black crime (what about white on white crime btw?) or perpetuating a system in which law enforcement and criminal justice systems disproportionately target blacks when compared to white people accused of the same crimes.

I have no doubt there is still racism, but not to the extent the victim industry makes it out to be, we've come a long way baby. It's time for the community itself to stand up and be counted. We need more Bill Cosbys and Jason Rileys.

Empty sloganeering. Awesome.

[GostHacked]

Liberal democrats

Oxymoron?

have kept them trapped in failing schools for decades. Their failing liberal social policies have utterly destroyed the black nuclear family. And they have the nerve to bring up the plight of the black community? How ridiculous is that?

You should be equally upset that it's not just the black nuclear family being torn apart. Both Dems and Reps have contributed to the downfall. Each party tells us they are going to fix the problem .... still waiting.

The last thing Democrats want is a prosperous independent African American community because they could no longer take their votes for granted.

We should really stop calling US born black people, African-Americans. They are Americans who happen to be black.

[scribblet]

Empty sloganeering. Awesome.

Huh... only in your mind I suppose.

[Guest American Woman]

The second juror to speak publicly told ABC News in an interview made available Thursday that she feels George Zimmerman got away with murder for fatally shooting Trayvon Martin, but that there wasn't enough evidence at trial to convict him under Florida law. http://news.yahoo.com/juror-says-she-owes-martins-parents-apology-193216798.html

This is the bottom line, the Florida law - not racism. This is what the focus should be on - not racism.

[scribblet]

Thanks for the info. she said:

That juror said the actions of Zimmerman and Martin both led to the teenager's fatal shooting, but that Zimmerman didn't actually break the law.

Juror B29 also told ABC that she didn't believe race was an issue at the trial. Though the judge so far has refused to release the names or biographical information about the jurors, B29 said she was 36 years old and Puerto Rican.

I wonder if she was wise allowing her face to be shown. The people Zimmerman rescued in the SUV won't speak or allow their names to be public for fear of violent repercussions. Sad...

[roy baty]

And you are basing this on what, exactly? Your intimate experience as a member of said community?

Yeah, poor whitey can't do anything right, whether its good-naturedly commenting on black on black crime (what about white on white crime btw?) or perpetuating a system in which law enforcement and criminal justice systems disproportionately target blacks when compared to white people accused of the same crimes.

Empty sloganeering. Awesome.

Aside from blaming the sins of the past, whitey, and the law for most of the problems facing the black community in the USA what exactly is your solution BD? A good start would be for black parents and local community leaders to completely discredit and shun the likes of the self interest driven Sharptons, Jacksons and other so-called national civil rights leaders who have let them down and do the other things that O'Reilly suggested. That's how. Scribblet is right. "Whitey" can't do it without being racially labelled racist particularly by the above mentioned leaders who have and will continue to fail at helping their own people. Instead, both whites and blacks continue to turn a blind eye to the children who are the real victims who face a very bleak future unless something is done about the family problems and bad influences they face growing up.

Can you imagine if Sharpton and Jackson worked with whites and hispanics to actually focus their efforts more on creating national AD campaigns and demanding true reform that will actually help fix what is eroding the inner cities? AD campaigns and community funding from their organizations to reduce teenage pregnancy, ban harmful music, demanding zero tolerance and stricter discipline and uniforms in schools etc....etc.. Instead they focus on padding their own wallets and creating more and more racial division and bad stats rising.

As for Obama, he's a failure at addressing these problems as well. He too by ignoring some of these problems just adds to the division. The Zimmerman trial brought to light a lot of problems with racial divide, yet still we see no real action from our leaders to address these bigger issues facing the black communities today that would help everyone if they were resolved.

Edited July 26, 2013 by roy baty

[Black Dog]

Aside from blaming the sins of the past, whitey, and the law for most of the problems facing the black community in the USA what exactly is your solution BD? A good start would be for black parents and local community leaders to completely discredit and shun the likes of the self interest driven Sharptons, Jacksons and other so-called national civil rights leaders who have let them down and do the other things that O'Reilly suggested.

A good rule of thumb is that if Bill O'Reilly says something is a good idea, it's not. Let's take a look at these "solutions" shall we?

[T]he first solution is, you’ve got to stop young black women from having babies out of wedlock. You’ve got to discourage that actively,”

Er okay. How? Better sex ed, more condoms and promotion of safe sex? Sure. Is that something conservatives would embrace? Hell nah.

“And the second thing is, you’ve got to demand discipline in your public schools in the inner cities, particularly, get the unions out of there. Have the kids in school uniforms and demand standards in discipline.”

El. Oh. El. I'm thinking inner city public schools that don't even have basic supplies like textbooks or desks aren't going to be able to supply uniforms. But yeah, I'm sure it's the unions fault that there's a persistent funding gap between schools in low income areas (read: black) and their mainly white counterparts as opposed to a system that funds schools based on local income.

It's notable that these solutions don't address any of the systemic issues (like the failed and brutal war on drugs that drives so much of the crime and poverty in the U.S) or do anything to tackle issues of a lack of economic and employment opportunity. It amounts to privileged whites passing the buck, blaming the likes of Sharpton and Jackson for problems not of their making. If those guys vanished off the face of the earth tomorrow, nothing would change.

Can you imagine if Sharpton and Jackson worked with whites and hispanics to actually focus their efforts more on creating national AD campaigns and demanding true reform that will actually help fix what is eroding the inner cities? AD campaigns and community funding from their organizations to reduce teenage pregnancy, ban harmful music, demanding zero tolerance and stricter discipline and uniforms in schools etc....etc.. Instead they focus on padding their own wallets and creating more and more racial division and bad stats rising.

Ad campaigns. Sweet Jesus.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Black Dog

[Black Dog]

Huh... only in your mind I suppose.

Tell me then: how would having "more Bill Cosbys and Jason Rileys" make a difference? Would they solve the funding gap, end the war on drugs, break the power of the prison industrial complex, end dehumanizing "stop and frisk" policies by cops, etc. etc. etc.?

[Shady]

Tell me then: how would having "more Bill Cosbys and Jason Rileys" make a difference? Would they solve the funding gap, end the war on drugs, break the power of the prison industrial complex, end dehumanizing "stop and frisk" policies by cops, etc. etc. etc.?

The biggest problem is the government industrial complex that perpetuates a cycle of dependency one generation after another. The education industrial complex that forbids school choice and teacher accountability, and the racism industrial complex that perpetuates a cycle of victim hood to generation after generation.

[scribblet]

Well said.

Bill Cosby et al can't end that on their own, but if more people spoke out and agitated for funding by bringing crowd protesters as they do with their race baiting, they might make a difference. If they and politicians spoke out and showed statistics maybe they could do something about funding. The war on drugs will only end when we educate and help people to stop taking them, we should never end fighting drugs.

Raising kids on your own leads to poverty most of the time, there's a cycle they can't break out of. Quit having babies you can't support and stay in school, is one step in the right direction.

It's not all systemic discrimination, there's a lot more to it.

Another one from a black writer in 2012- and excerpt

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303302504577323691134926300.html

The civil rights community and the liberal media live by the poetic truth that America is still a reflexively racist society, and that this remains the great barrier to black equality. But this "truth" has a lot of lie in it. America has greatly evolved since the 1960s. There are no longer any respectable advocates of racial segregation. And blacks today are nine times more likely to be killed by other blacks than by whites.

If Trayvon Martin was a victim of white racism (hard to conceive since the shooter is apparently Hispanic), his murder would be an anomaly, not a commonplace. It would be a bizarre exception to the way so many young black males are murdered today. If there must be a generalization in all this—a call "to turn the moment into a movement"—it would have to be a movement against blacks who kill other blacks. The absurdity of Messrs. Jackson and Sharpton is that they want to make a movement out of an anomaly. Black teenagers today are afraid of other black teenagers, not whites.

[Black Dog]

Well said.

Bill Cosby et al can't end that on their own, but if more people spoke out and agitated for funding by bringing crowd protesters as they do with their race baiting, they might make a difference. If they and politicians spoke out and showed statistics maybe they could do something about funding.

Yup I'm sure white, conservatives would be all over the idea of more funding for community building in predominantly black areas.

The war on drugs will only end when we educate and help people to stop taking them, we should never end fighting drugs.

Hey how's that been working out for the last, oh, 50 years?

Raising kids on your own leads to poverty most of the time, there's a cycle they can't break out of. Quit having babies you can't support and stay in school, is one step in the right direction.

I like how you acknowledge the cycle of poverty and then just say "welp they should just stop."

It's not all systemic discrimination, there's a lot more to it.

Of course there's more to it. and no one has said otherwise. But all your simplistic solutions amount to "they just need to suck it up."

America has greatly evolved since the 1960s. There are no longer any respectable advocates of racial segregation.

Oh good another commentator who doesn't understand what "systemic racism" means. (Of course, nowadays when blacks are murdered by whites, those whites are likely going to be wearing uniforms, not hoods).

And blacks today are nine times more likely to be killed by other blacks than by whites.

And whites are far more likely to be killed by other whites. Duh.

If there must be a generalization in all this—a call "to turn the moment into a movement"—it would have to be a movement against blacks who kill other blacks. The absurdity of Messrs. Jackson and Sharpton is that they want to make a movement out of an anomaly. Black teenagers today are afraid of other black teenagers, not whites.

Ugh. Black on black crime isn't the problem: it's a symptom.

[carepov]

He is right about the 72% rate of single mothers, surely this is a good part of the poverty cycle.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39993685/ns/health-womens_health/t/blacks-struggle-percent-unwed-mothers-rate/

Here's another article from Wall Street Journal and a black writer, worth a read.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323394504578608182550247030.html

Thanks for the links, I fully agree. The most potent quote was from MLK:

""Do you know that Negroes are 10 percent of the population of St. Louis and are responsible for 58% of its crimes? We've got to face that. And we've got to do something about our moral standards," Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. told a congregation in 1961. "We know that there are many things wrong in the white world, but there are many things wrong in the black world, too. We can't keep on blaming the white man. There are things we must do for ourselves.""

If this was even partially true in 1961, then it must be true in 2013. IMO, racism / black oppression is no longer a major cause of high back poverty and crime rates. A good start would be to transfer resources form the war on drugs to social programs for poor people, especially children.

[Black Dog]

If this was even partially true in 1961, then it must be true in 2013. IMO, racism / black oppression is no longer a major cause of high back poverty and crime rates.

I think one could make the case that racism contributes to crime rates through aggressive targeting of blacks by law enforcement, a legal system that favours the wealthy etc. It's not the same racism as Jim Crow laws, but both are based on certain beliefs, predjuices and assumptions about the character of certain groups.

A good start would be to transfer resources form the war on drugs to social programs for poor people, especially children.

Good idea. Also: good luck with that.

[Shady]

I think one could make the case that racism contributes to crime rates through aggressive targeting of blacks by law enforcement, a legal system that favours the wealthy etc. It's not the same racism as Jim Crow laws, but both are based on certain beliefs, predjuices and assumptions about the character of certain groups.

Good idea. Also: good luck with that.

Actually, it's based on data.

Anyways, you're right about conservatives not supporting your suggestions. Nor should they. That's just more of the same failed programs that haven't worked for 40 years.

[Black Dog]

Actually, it's based on data.

What data supports the aggressive targeting of blacks by law enforcement and a legal system that favours the wealthy?

Don't worry: I don't expect a real answer.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Black Dog

[-TSS-]

The more one reads into this story the more one realizes the hysteria attached and how defenders of both views are fiercely defending their own agenda.

Martin was not a sweet child who was just minding his business but got shot by a racist bigot. Zimmermann was not such a knight in a shining armour who was just doing his duty defending his neighbourhood.

[Shady]

What data supports the aggressive targeting of blacks by law enforcement and a legal system that favours the wealthy?

Don't worry: I don't expect a real answer.

I disagree with your premise. It's not so much targeting blacks as it is targeting crime.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Shady

[scribblet]

Well, we know NBC edited a tape to make Zimmerman look racist, but was it done again by another network ?

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/frame_game/2013/07/did_george_zimmerman_get_away_with_murder_no_juror_b29_is_being_framed.html

Edited July 26, 2013 by scribblet

[roy baty]

A good rule of thumb is that if Bill O'Reilly says something is a good idea, it's not. Let's take a look at these "solutions" shall we?

Ad campaigns. Sweet Jesus.

Ok BD, we're still waiting for your solutions that are so much better.. Please enlighten us.

[-TSS-]

They're not going to reverse the verdict so in all intents and purposes this case is closed. I think we should move on!

[jacee]

I disagree with your premise. It's not so much targeting blacks as it is targeting crime.

Targeting what crime?

Buying skittles while black, male, 17 & wearing a hoodie?

There was no crime requiring "targeting".

[scribblet]

This is going round in circles. There had been a number of bur laries in the neighbourhood, that's why he was suspicious. He didn't even mention race until asked.

[Guest American Woman]

This is going round in circles. There had been a number of bur laries in the neighbourhood, that's why he was suspicious. He didn't even mention race until asked.

Who knew that he was targeted for buying skittles, eh? Someone should tell Jackson and Sharpton. If Martin had only bought m&m's while being black, male, 17, and wearing a hoodie, Zimmerman wouldn't have been suspicious at all, apparently. Or if he had been female. Or 18? Who knows. The burglaries in the neighborhood had nothing to do with it, though. Apparently.

I happen to think Zimmerman should have been found guilty of manslaughter because there's no evidence that he even tried to fight back without resorting to shooting him. I think, though, that the Stand Your Ground law needs to be addressed in order to prevent this same type of thing from happening again; and when I say 'this same type of thing,' I'm referring to people of all races, as it's been found that race had nothing to do with this incident. It's those going on about skittles and race that will likely prevent that from happening as they (all too often ludicrously) shift the focus elsewhere.

[cybercoma]

This is going round in circles. There had been a number of bur laries in the neighbourhood, that's why he was suspicious. He didn't even mention race until asked.

Yes. Having some break-ins in your neighbourhood gives you carte blanche to murder kids.