Something is rotten with the state of Israel

[DogOnPorch]

??? translation... is there a translator in the house?

"Yes" in 1947 = 2 state solution. "No" = losing numerous wars of extermination. But, you have to admire their kill-kill-kill spirit.

[Hudson Jones]

#1 - How about you provide proof showing that Israel sprayed "all homes in the Village." Until you do, I will question it as it's nothing more than an unsubstantiated claim, as I've pointed out repeatedly now.

I accept that it may or may not be 'all' the homes in the village. So let's talk about the spraying of all the homes that we see in the video. Are you questioning that those homes were sprayed?

#2 - That's your take on it. Israel has another explanation.

What is yours/Israel's explanation?

[waldo]

Should have said "yes" in 1947. Sucks to be them.

"Yes" in 1947 = 2 state solution. "No" = losing numerous wars of extermination. But, you have to admire their kill-kill-kill spirit.

which only shows your predisposition. The 47 boundaries weren't acceptable for one party... as unacceptable as going back to the pre-1967 lines were for another. Apparently, you take a most selective account of when negotiating boundaries should apply. Your going back 60+ years to presume upon an unacceptable two-state (boundary) solution has no bearing on today's more topical considerations toward a negotiated settlement.

[DogOnPorch]

which only shows your predisposition. The 47 boundaries weren't acceptable for one party... as unacceptable as going back to the pre-1967 lines were for another. Apparently, you take a most selective account of when negotiating boundaries should apply. Your going back 60+ years to presume upon an unacceptable two-state (boundary) solution has no bearing on today's more topical considerations toward a negotiated settlement.

I'll go back further than that if you wish. How about 332 BC? The last 'Philistine' was hauled off into slavery by Alexander and crew. They said 'no' to his one state solution....heheh. Wrong move.

[Guest American Woman]

I accept that it may or may not be 'all' the homes in the village. So let's talk about the spraying of all the homes that we see in the video. Are you questioning that those homes were sprayed?

Of course not.

What is yours/Israel's explanation?

I'm not the one making claims in this thread, posting them as fact, so "I" don't have an explanation. I'm just pointing out that there are conflicting reports, so I question the validity of the claims being made in your source(s). When events like this are so badly purposely skewed to make Israel look as evil as possible, that's what has the biggest impact on me. That Israel cannot seem to be discussed/reported on by so many people/sources without such exaggeration/hyperbole leaves me questioning everything coming out of said sources. I've seen nothing about this in mainstream media, so if you have any such sources, I'd love to see them.

[Hudson Jones]

Of course not.

I'm not the one making claims in this thread, posting them as fact, so "I" don't have an explanation. I'm just pointing out that there are conflicting reports, so I question the validity of the claims being made in your source(s). When events like this are so badly purposely skewed to make Israel look as evil as possible, that's what has the biggest impact on me. That Israel cannot seem to be discussed/reported on by so many people/sources without such exaggeration/hyperbole leaves me questioning everything coming out of said sources. I've seen nothing about this in mainstream media, so if you have any such sources, I'd love to see them.

I ask again, what is Israel's/your explanation?

Because as you said, Israel has another explanation.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Hudson Jones

[Rue]

American Woman, did you miss the video where the trucks were spraying the houses? Do you base your judgement on anything specific or is this just another auto-apologize for Israel appearance?

You once again came on this forum and propogated. You did not express a political opinion. You threw out a film and an accusation something you do each day on this forum and I appreciate what Michael H. asked and why and I understand why this forum has told me watch what I say to you-debate but do not get personal.

Its hard when you get flippant with your responses to avoid debating.

So let's review, skunk spray.

What is your point? Do you have one? You have shown what exactly...that you have a mandate to come on this forum every day and produce anti Israel propoganda and then accuse others of being pro Israel ?

Now that you have done that yet again and accuse once again anyone questioning you as being a pro Israel mouthpiece-what about you? Can we ask you the same question?

For example are you an employee of the Iranian government? Are you paid to go on forums and present daily anti Israel pieces?

Are you in fact someone with Muslim beliefs that dictate to you Israel is an abomination and must be rendered extinct?

Are you an agent for Iran? Is in fact your real name not Hudson Jones?

Are you a composite of actually more than one writer?

I am a Canadian citizen. Canada is my country and I put it first and foremost. I am a Tzipi Levni supporter and a Jew and never hid either or that I lived in Israel.

What about you? Going to finish what you started?

I am sure now that you have accused American Women of being an Israeli mouthpiece she can explain who she is.

An ancient Yiddish proverb says- men with rotted teeth should not try chew on things they are not capable of digesting.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Rue

[GostHacked]

??? translation... is there a translator in the house?

Because Israel did not exist before then. In my view the vote happened somewhere else and the locals had no say in how the land was divided up by foreign powers to allow the creation of what we see as modern Israel. After the mass immigration to the area displacing the local population where the now settlers are calling all the shots and crying foul when they are attacked or held up to the standard that a 'western' nation should be held do.

The plan for Israel did not happen overnight and was about, from what I can tell, 20-30 years in the making. A lot of the talk about a Zion state occurred in Britain during the 1920s.

[DogOnPorch]

Because Israel did not exist before then. In my view the vote happened somewhere else and the locals had no say in how the land was divided up by foreign powers to allow the creation of what we see as modern Israel. After the mass immigration to the area displacing the local population where the now settlers are calling all the shots and crying foul when they are attacked or held up to the standard that a 'western' nation should be held do.

The plan for Israel did not happen overnight and was about, from what I can tell, 20-30 years in the making. A lot of the talk about a Zion state occurred in Britain during the 1920s.

The "land" has a checkered history at best. There was a period when the entire area was Greek Byzantine...a relic of earlier times...Rome...the Diadochi...Babylon...etc. All before the Arabs arrived, iconoclasm in hand. In the 20th century, not only Jewish but Arab nationalism came to the forefront. Everybody wanted a hunk of the corpse that was the Ottoman Empire. Nearly all got most of what they wanted except the Mufti's gang...now called 'Palestinians'. The Mufti...who you hate hearing about...participated in the Armenian Holocaust as an Ottoman Turk officer in the artillery. Not to mention the Jewish Holocaust during WW2 as an SS officer.....speaking of foreign powers. And he said "no" in 1947...opting for war.

[Michael Hardner]

So let's review, skunk spray.

Insults are not allowed, Rue - please pick up your posting style.

[Bonam]

Insults are not allowed, Rue - please pick up your posting style.

Where is the insult in what you quoted? This thread is about skunk spray.

[Guest American Woman]

Where is the insult in what you quoted? This thread is about skunk spray.

I think MH thinks Rue was calling Hudson Jones "skunk spray." That's the only thing I can figure ....

[Hudson Jones]

Of course not.

I'm not the one making claims in this thread, posting them as fact, so "I" don't have an explanation. I'm just pointing out that there are conflicting reports, so I question the validity of the claims being made in your source(s). When events like this are so badly purposely skewed to make Israel look as evil as possible, that's what has the biggest impact on me. That Israel cannot seem to be discussed/reported on by so many people/sources without such exaggeration/hyperbole leaves me questioning everything coming out of said sources. I've seen nothing about this in mainstream media, so if you have any such sources, I'd love to see them.

I ask again, what is Israel's/your explanation?

Because as you said, Israel has another explanation.

So my question was - WHY CAN'T YOU SHARE WITH US AND TELL US WHAT YOU MEANT?

Good Lord. If you can't answer that, if you can't clarify when asked, then this is a complete waste of time.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Hudson Jones

[bush_cheney2004]

I think MH thinks Rue was calling Hudson Jones "skunk spray." That's the only thing I can figure ....

Yes....lost in translation. No harm...no foul.

[Rue]

I think MH thinks Rue was calling Hudson Jones "skunk spray." That's the only thing I can figure ....

I was not of course and have askedfor clarification from the moderator. I think with due respect he needs to explain to us all. I was very careful not to insult.

This thread reported Israel used skunk spray.So what was the point? What was the point? Does anyone know? Other than a pretense to start a new thread with an anti Israeli insult what was his point and why are his thread starters allowed? They clearly are intended to insult and inflamme.

Can we deal with this moderators please in the open. Thank you.

[Rue]

The explanation asked for by "Hudson Hones" was given to him by a responder and he chose to ignore it and go after American Woman posing that he does not know the explanation for use of skunk spray.

In fact skunk spray was developed by the IDF approximately in 2004-2005. It was in response to people complaining Israel was using deadly force by using tear gas, plastic bullets or pressured water from hose to control crowds.

In response to those complaints of excessive force, they came up with an organic compound made of non lethal ingredients such as baking soda that have the properties similiar to skunk spray. When touched by it, one stinks and it leaves a foul odour. Unlike pepper spray it does not blind.

Its interesting because the same"Hudson Jones" who comes on this forum daily with an inflammatory headline for his threads and his usual Israel stinks posts knows its non deadly force and while a nuisance is far better then what Hamas does with Palestinians and that is to shoot them dead when they protest.

Does anyone believe "Hudson Jones" will acknowledge it is far humane then how Hamas treats Palestinians.

Don't hold your breath, skunk spray or no skunk spray and I hope the moderator sets the record straight with me, because with due respect

he misinterpreted what I stated and I also believe he was wrong to point it out on the forum for all to read. It should have been sent to me in private so I could have clarified it and avoided this.

[Rue]

You once again came on this forum and propogated. You did not express a political opinion. You threw out a film and an accusation something you do each day on this forum and I appreciate what Michael H. asked and why and I understand why this forum has told me watch what I say to you-debate but do not get personal.

Its hard when you get flippant with your responses to avoid debating.

So let's review, skunk spray.

What is your point? Do you have one? You have shown what exactly...that you have a mandate to come on this forum every day and produce anti Israel propoganda and then accuse others of being pro Israel ?

Now that you have done that yet again and accuse once again anyone questioning you as being a pro Israel mouthpiece-what about you? Can we ask you the same question?

For example are you an employee of the Iranian government? Are you paid to go on forums and present daily anti Israel pieces?

Are you in fact someone with Muslim beliefs that dictate to you Israel is an abomination and must be rendered extinct?

Are you an agent for Iran? Is in fact your real name not Hudson Jones?

Are you a composite of actually more than one writer?

I am a Canadian citizen. Canada is my country and I put it first and foremost. I am a Tzipi Levni supporter and a Jew and never hid either or that I lived in Israel.

What about you? Going to finish what you started?

I am sure now that you have accused American Women of being an Israeli mouthpiece she can explain who she is.

An ancient Yiddish proverb says- men with rotted teeth should not try chew on things they are not capable of digesting.

Of course he did not respond. Once again we see not just a double standard for Israel but all of you and me on this forum by this contributor.

I think it important this "Hudson Jones" who accuses others with name calling of being mouthpieces and what he considers knee jerk biases seriously look at the state of his continued threads and ask-how much longer? Do you not think its transparent?

[Hudson Jones]

It's not just the Israeli government who has a habit of stinking up the situation. The settlers, as shown in a previous link, continue to dump sewage onto Palestinian land. Of course, the Israeli government does nothing to stop this. Sometimes it's difficult to tell the Jewish settlers apart from the Israeli government.

Palestinians demonstrate against sewage settlers spill onto their land

About 100 Palestinians from the ancient village of Sebastia and their supporters held a demonstration today to protest against settlers spilling their sewage onto the village’s agricultural lands.

Link

Edited March 30, 2013 by Hudson Jones

[Rue]

Once again you can see the misrepresentation tactic"Hudson Jones" engages in. When he comes on the forum he states Israeli settlers "dump" sewage but the actual sites he quotes use the word "spill".

Dump would suggest its deliberate, spill would suggest accidental. Of course this is no different then him restating an "apology" as synonomous with an

"admission of liability" and so when some tell me or others to lighten up when he continues to do this, I say, no it needs to be exposed because its intellectually dishonest and it repeats a pattern of twisting actual events for narrow partisan purposes designed to inflamme people against Israel.

You will note he also states its hard to seperate Israeli settlers from their government.That blurring of the line is condoned by him of course but he would be the same person who claims to blame all Palestinians for the actions of terrorists would be unfair.

This attempt to stereotype and hold all Israelis morally culpable for sewage spills and to play semantics to suggest its a deliberate political tactic is what he does. He takes a situation and exploits it for political gain.

Now, for your information the actual state of the environment on the West Bank is being polluted by both sides equally. The explosion of Palestinian population birth rates is one reason. Interestinhgly the same"Hudson Jones" who has repeatedly stated on this forum Israel engages in genocide against Palestinians can't explain why if its genocide their population rate has exploded the way it has causing serious sewage problems.

Likewise the rapid growth of Israeli settlements has also caused sewage problems.

On the West Bank there is no water so the removal of sewage has always been a problem. Across all the Middle East,sewage removal due to lack of water has always been a problem.

In the spin of "Hudson Jones" its only a problem Israelis created. It hasn't been a problem for all nations of the Middle East since Biblical days. Its sim[ly a Zionist tactic.

Its this kind of propoganda ploy I challenge, the mirepresentation of issues in the Middle East as being soley created by Israel and the blame of Israeli citizens.

The fact is the West Bank's ecosphere has suffered serious damage-some caused by Israel some by the Palestinian Authority.

They both have to find better ways to protect the environment and of course environmental cooperation can't come about with a conflict remaining unresolved.

Now will Hudson Hones care to state what the Palestinian Authority's or Hamas's policy on the environment us? Lol.Don't hold your breath. He won't.

[Rue]

Here are some sites on environmental issues concerning the Middle East and the West Bank, something the "Hudson Jones" script will not provide. I have deliberately included sites that are not friendly to Israel because unlike "Hudson Jones" I present both sides of the issues-I criticize both sides equally for their handling of the environment:

www.mideastenvironment.apps01.yorku.ca

The above is a York University web-sitr highly critical of Israel-I received my Master's of Law at York U. and their anti Israeli bias in academics is well known but I provide it deliberately.

In this article note how the suggestion Israel is dumping sewage (deliberate) as "Hudson Jones" mis-stated it is in fact a malfunctioning pump:

http://www.haaretz.com/news/sewage-from-west-bank-settlement-pollutes-palestinian-fields-1.485147

Here is an article explaining problems with the water and sewage without the misrepresentations of "Hudson Jones".

http://www.environmental-expert.com/news/west-bank-aquifer-endangered-by-untreated-sewage-37688

Here is the other side of the issue "Hudson Jones" will not disclose;

http://www.globalwaterintel.com/archive/9/10/general/report-highlights-west-banks-wastewater-problems.html

Lol that's right "Hudson Jones" tell me again how I do not "properly" debate because I brush over reports.

So tell me "Hudson Jones" what caued you to brush over the above? HMMMMMM?

[Hudson Jones]

Here are some sites on environmental issues concerning the Middle East and the West Bank, something the "Hudson Jones" script will not provide. I have deliberately included sites that are not friendly to Israel because unlike "Hudson Jones" I present both sides of the issues-I criticize both sides equally for their handling of the environment:

www.mideastenvironment.apps01.yorku.ca

The above is a York University web-sitr highly critical of Israel-I received my Master's of Law at York U. and their anti Israeli bias in academics is well known but I provide it deliberately.

In this article note how the suggestion Israel is dumping sewage (deliberate) as "Hudson Jones" mis-stated it is in fact a malfunctioning pump:

http://www.haaretz.com/news/sewage-from-west-bank-settlement-pollutes-palestinian-fields-1.485147

Here is an article explaining problems with the water and sewage without the misrepresentations of "Hudson Jones".

http://www.environmental-expert.com/news/west-bank-aquifer-endangered-by-untreated-sewage-37688

Here is the other side of the issue "Hudson Jones" will not disclose;

http://www.globalwaterintel.com/archive/9/10/general/report-highlights-west-banks-wastewater-problems.html

Lol that's right "Hudson Jones" tell me again how I do not "properly" debate because I brush over reports.

So tell me "Hudson Jones" what caued you to brush over the above? HMMMMMM?

Your links does not respond to what I have posted. You are using the case of a malfunctioning pump which has caused sewage spilling onto Palestinian land somewhere else to say that the settlers are not dumping their sewage. There are dozens of cases of settler sewage contaminating Palestinian land. The article I posted above is just one of them.

Environmentalists maintain that the Israeli authorities are not doing enough to prevent pollution in the West Bank.

In April, Israel gave the go-ahead to settlers to convert a former Palestinian quarry into a dump for industrial waste from Israel and Jewish settlements in the West Bank.

Settlement sewage often flows untreated onto Palestinian farmland

Around 10,000 metric tons of waste are set to be dumped at the site each month.

A 2004 report by Friends of the Earth Middle East found that only 6% of Israeli settlements adequately treated their sewage. The settlers account for only 10% of the population of the West Bank, yet produce 25% of sewage pollution, the study found. The group also found that sewage from settlements was polluting the underground water aquifer that serves both Israel and the West Bank.

The Israeli Ministry of the Environment which is responsible for enforcing environmental standards in Israeli settlements only took steps against 14 of more than 60 colonies illegally discharging sewage, the FOEME report says.

Link

[Rue]

That's it? Once again you ignore what is shown to you and try control only the report you wish to discuss. Your m.o. is worn. Your report or is but one of hundreds and trying to suggest it is the only one that can be considered on this issue again exhbits your m.o.

I once again would point out to you, that trying to control what readers are to consider and insist they can only read the reports you provide simply shows you are NOT debating but simply coming on this forum to propogate, i.e., unilaterally declare a subjective one sided remark designed to incite hatred and intolerance for one of the parties to the dispute you claim exists.

Just once respond to the reports given to you. This "they do not corespond" response was lame. They were directly on point. Your selective chosing of a politically bias report complete with the reference "60 colonies" speaks for itself.

You are not capable of engaging in a discussion on this topic or debating it. You limit yourself to reproducing anti Israel government web sites.

[Hudson Jones]

That's it? Once again you ignore what is shown to you and try control only the report you wish to discuss.

What do you man that's it? ? Is this some kind of a monty python skit? It's bolded and in big letters. Let me repeat it for you.

The Israeli Ministry of the Environment which is responsible for enforcing environmental standards in Israeli settlements only took steps against 14 of more than 60 colonies illegally discharging sewage

[Guest American Woman]

Wow. Up until now, I wasn't convinced - but the really big, bold letters really won me over.

[Hudson Jones]

It's not about convincing. It's about Rue not missing the information that shows how wrong he is. With the response he made, he obviously didn't notice the information that the Israeli government only took steps against 14 of more than 60 colonies (settlements) illegally discharging sewage.