Teachers Should Be Paid More

socialist · February 16, 2013

2 months away from graduating with my teaching degree and i am ready to hit the classroom with heavy emphasis on social justice. things ae looking up in ontario. premier wynne realizes the mistakes the liberals made with the teachers and the teachers unions and she is doing the right thing by trying to correct the damage that had be done. i know the teachers i talk to are pleased that wynne has turned things around. i see nothing but reat things for ontario with wynne in control. teachers should be paid more for what they have to put up with. this article expalins why. even the haters might learn a thing or two.

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorialopinion/2012/02/29/ontario_teachers_deserve_to_be_paid_more.html

sharkman · February 16, 2013

Another leftwing grad. Give it 25 years! Anyway, my wife is a high school math teacher and knows a thing or two about the profession. Alberta pays the most if you get a chance to move. Hope you didn't have to go into debt too deep to get that degree!

August1991 · February 16, 2013

Why should teachers get more?

Waiters should get more. Cashiers should get more. Car mechanics should be paid more.

The only way to get more (get paid more) is to find a way to produce more with less. IOW, new technology - or trade.

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I suspect that teachers in 2013 are like bank tellers in 1968. There's a technological tsunami about to hit teachers just as it hit the banking industry some 40 years ago.

Michael Hardner · February 16, 2013

Why should teachers get more?

I suspect that teachers in 2013 are like bank tellers in 1968. There's a technological tsunami about to hit teachers just as it hit the banking industry some 40 years ago.

Yes, you have already suggested that here. And I pointed out that they said the same things about television.

Also automats were supposed to eliminate the waiter!

ironstone · February 16, 2013

2 months away from graduating with my teaching degree and i am ready to hit the classroom with heavy emphasis on social justice. things ae looking up in ontario. premier wynne realizes the mistakes the liberals made with the teachers and the teachers unions and she is doing the right thing by trying to correct the damage that had be done. i know the teachers i talk to are pleased that wynne has turned things around. i see nothing but reat things for ontario with wynne in control. teachers should be paid more for what they have to put up with. this article expalins why. even the haters might learn a thing or two.

http://www.thestar.c..._paid_more.html

The name you choose to use on here speaks volumes about yourself.

You are correct in that mistakes were made with the teachers and their unions.....the Liberals were way too generous given the fact that our debt here in Ontario is skyrocketing thanks to years of reckless spending.I have read some articles which stated that under the Liberals,teachers wages have increased more than 30% in the past 8-9 years.Until recently,they had a whopping 20 SICK DAYS PER YEAR,which they could bank.I have also read that the average teacher works 28 years,and collects a pension for 35....unsustainable.Why do people like you on the left not consider massive debt to be a problem?And for the record,I see nothing but trouble with Wynne in control,she is a big spending activist who will stay the course and put us even further in the hole.

I do congratulate you for getting your teaching degree but I think you need to work on your grammar and spelling.It looks more professional if you use capital letters as well.

Topaz · February 16, 2013

The teachers shouldn't get more, they make a good wage now. For new teachers, start at the bottom and work your way up like others do. I would say I think that Toronto should return power to the school boards to deal with the teachers contract like it was years ago. I can only think of 3 professions that have more time off than others, MPs, MPP's and teachers.

February 16, 2013

I always figure that if I wouldn't do it if my life depended on it, it probably should be paid well. Teachers and nurses are about top of that list. They can't be paid too much as far as I'm concerned.

I'm sorry for the kids, what with the heavy on the social justice thing, but as long as it's also heavy on the multiplications tables, parents can generally put them straight about that.

Congratulations on your degree. I hope you make a packet of cash and it turns you into a raging capitalist.

Boges · February 16, 2013

The premise of the article would be accurate if only bad teachers could be easily replaced with good ones. Unions make this difficult. Tenure seems more important than actual skill.

Accountability Now · February 16, 2013

I may be out of date but when I was in university, the faculty of education was one of the easiest ones to get into. Further to that, most teachers actually planned on being something else but then realized they couldn't get a job in their field. As such they took the one year after Ed program that made them a teacher just to have a job. And why not? Summers off, extra holidays, 9-3:30 gig...all sounds good until you get there and realize its work! Bottom line it should be harder for a person to become a teacher if they want the high paying rewards. We pay other professionals (doctors, lawyers, accountants) higher sums because those are challenging programs that demand a lot from prospects.

Michael Hardner · February 16, 2013

The premise of the article would be accurate if only bad teachers could be easily replaced with good ones.

Out of curiosity - what do you think is a 'bad' teacher and how would you determine that objectively ? Also - would retraining not be an option to improve 'bad' teachers ?

Michael Hardner · February 16, 2013

I may be out of date but when I was in university, the faculty of education was one of the easiest ones to get into. Further to that, most teachers actually planned on being something else but then realized they couldn't get a job in their field. As such they took the one year after Ed program that made them a teacher just to have a job. And why not? Summers off, extra holidays, 9-3:30 gig...all sounds good until you get there and realize its work! Bottom line it should be harder for a person to become a teacher if they want the high paying rewards. We pay other professionals (doctors, lawyers, accountants) higher sums because those are challenging programs that demand a lot from prospects.

Your post follows the premise that there is some 'fair' amount people are paid, as opposed to what the market (open or closed) pays for the labour.

Accountability Now · February 16, 2013

Your post follows the premise that there is some 'fair' amount people are paid, as opposed to what the market (open or closed) pays for the labour.

There is no market rate once you become a teacher. You are bound by the constraints of that system. My idea of fair is based on people choosing the career path and then whining about what it entails. Most professionals go into their careers with money being the incentive...this the reason why they go to school for so long and work the hours they do. If teachers were in it for the money then they wouldn't have picked education. Most make that choice for lifestyle...not money.

Boges · February 16, 2013

Out of curiosity - what do you think is a 'bad' teacher and how would you determine that objectively ? Also - would retraining not be an option to improve 'bad' teachers ?

I don't know. How do you determine a good teacher? The column states that good teachers contribute to the economy while bad teachers are a drain. You can't advocate for more pay for good teachers and still allow bad teachers to move up a pay scale can you?

Edited February 16, 2013 by Boges

scribblet · February 16, 2013

Teachers in Ontario are very well paid thank you very much.

http://taxpayer.com/ontario/ontario%E2%80%99s-teacher-pay-freeze-doesn%E2%80%99t-go-nearly-far-enough

Michael Hardner · February 16, 2013

There is no market rate once you become a teacher. You are bound by the constraints of that system.

Well, it's a 'closed' market - ie. there's a monopoly on labour by the union but ok.

My idea of fair is based on people choosing the career path and then whining about what it entails. Most professionals go into their careers with money being the incentive...

What you're doing is called 'projection'. You may have made that choice in your career but it doesn't mean others have. Doctors, for example, come to mind here.

Michael Hardner · February 16, 2013

I don't know. How do you determine a good teacher? ... You can't advocate for more pay for good teachers and still allow bad teachers to move up a pay scale can you?

Well, you're the one who suggested replacing bad ones with good ones so I'm asking you.

If somebody is advocating for better pay for 'good teachers' then they'd have to explain how to determine good vs bad as well.

Accountability Now · February 16, 2013

What you're doing is called 'projection'. You may have made that choice in your career but it doesn't mean others have. Doctors, for example, come to mind here.

I disagree. I continue to make career choices all the time. I left the oil and gas industry for a lower revenue stream because I didn't like the lifestyle. Teachers can do the same. I know a number of teachers who left that career to chase other avenues. The reality is that most teachers have great benefits, job security and other lifestyle incentives that keep them in that career. But it's still a choice.

Accountability Now · February 16, 2013

Well, you're the one who suggested replacing bad ones with good ones so I'm asking you.

If somebody is advocating for better pay for 'good teachers' then they'd have to explain how to determine good vs bad as well.

I think that's the point with teachers or any other union job. You don't get the highs or the lows, the good or the bad rather you get a happy medium. In other industries you can make more money but you can also lose your job easier, benefits aren't as good etc.

Muddy · February 16, 2013

Well I am an old man and I can only speak from experience. I only completed grade six then went off to work for several reasons. My teachers were fantastic. Often I was given the strap for various reasons,but I never hated the teachers they were trying to get my attention. But by gosh they were good at their job. It was calling for them. They gave me the greatest gift an educater can give a child. I can read. Because of this gift I had a very successful life without the help of a Union.

Unfortunately from what I have seen over the last few decades, I have come to the conclusion that teachers are incompetent ,uneducated in basic grammer,punctuation,math and spelling. Teaching has become a Union job instead of a calling . They can not be fired for incompetence,unlike those who pay their wages.

Like the person who started this thread ,if they are a teacher you, have proven my point by just posting.

Sadly if this person does get a job teaching they will produce another generation of functioning illiterates, and get paid a obscene amount of money to do it.

That is of course if the original poster is really going to be a teacher. The post proves my response.

socialist · February 16, 2013

I always figure that if I wouldn't do it if my life depended on it, it probably should be paid well. Teachers and nurses are about top of that list. They can't be paid too much as far as I'm concerned.

I'm sorry for the kids, what with the heavy on the social justice thing, but as long as it's also heavy on the multiplications tables, parents can generally put them straight about that.

Congratulations on your degree. I hope you make a packet of cash and it turns you into a raging capitalist.

guys like you are so out of date with your backwards thinking about education. multiplication tables aren't stressed anymore because they are useless. that's what calculators are for. education is about social justice and human rights, and protecting our environment.

times tables? what a joke. get in touch with the modern era. times tables are 40s stuff.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/story/2012/07/22/edmonton-schools-multiplication-drills.html

February 16, 2013

guys like you are so out of date with your backwards thinking about education. multiplication tables aren't stressed anymore because they are useless. that's what calculators are for. education is about social justice and human rights, and protecting our environment.

times tables? what a joke. get in touch with the modern era. times tables are 40s stuff.

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...ion-drills.html

Okay, That's it! I don't want you to get rich anymore.

socialist · February 16, 2013

Okay, That's it! I don't want you to get rich anymore.

whatever. you have no idea what 21st century education is. you are a fossil when it comes to educational philosophy.

gunrutz · February 16, 2013

guys like you are so out of date with your backwards thinking about education. multiplication tables aren't stressed anymore because they are useless. that's what calculators are for. education is about social justice and human rights, and protecting our environment.

times tables? what a joke. get in touch with the modern era. times tables are 40s stuff.

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...ion-drills.html

This is hilarious, well trolled, i have kids in school, and it wasn't very long ago that they learned those multiplication tables. Strangely enough, neither of them have any subjects either titled or closely related to social justice or the environment. Well trolled indeed.

Edited February 16, 2013 by gunrutz

February 16, 2013

whatever. you have no idea what 21st century education is. you are a fossil when it comes to educational philosophy.

Yeah, I know. Piplines bad windmils gud. A+

Muddy · February 16, 2013

guys like you are so out of date with your backwards thinking about education. multiplication tables aren't stressed anymore because they are useless. that's what calculators are for. education is about social justice and human rights, and protecting our environment.

times tables? what a joke. get in touch with the modern era. times tables are 40s stuff.

http://www.cbc.ca/ne...ion-drills.html

Thats why folks when you hand the check out girl 66 cents in change and the total bill is$40.66 and you wait for change from a fifty you see the blank look on the face of the clerk.

I think socialist is really a plant by the right. He or she who is on the path of teaching can not be this obtuse.